Cue the "Yahtzee's lost it" crowd!

Wow, so true. I played this game for 6 or 7 hours and it really becomes stale and boring.
I'm starting to feel more and more like Yahtzee in that most large and usually highly acclaimed games are becoming large disappointments. Dragon Age was barf to me (Torchlight was more entertaining). Currently playing Mass Effect 2 which seems of much lower quality than 1.
My only memorable games of recent time were Fallout 3, Dead Space (though I didn't complete it), Dirt 2, Prototype (also didn't complete), bit of GTA IV.

Ewww, he said "muh-muh-por-guh".

No, he said "MMORPGer"
>> ^syncron:
Ewww, he said "muh-muh-por-guh".

I'm a bit shocked that he needs "another week" to finish ME2. I finished it last weekend. All of it. Side-quests too.

I played a little bit Thursday night, a few hours Friday night and, since my plans for the weekend fell through, pretty much all day Saturday and Sunday. I just checked my final saved game and it's 31 hours.

They really stripped the thing bare. Lots of features removed or simplified. Apparently nobody liked the driving in the first game so they completely removed that (unless you buy the driving DLC). The problem with the driving in ME1 was there was nothing on 90% of the planets besides a mineral deposit or two. That hasn't changed, but now you have to rub the planets with your mouse cursor in order to find mineral deposits instead of actually exploring them. It's like doing a 10' scratch-off ticket with a penny.

>> ^xxovercastxx:
I'm a bit shocked that he needs "another week" to finish ME2. I finished it last weekend. All of it. Side-quests too.
I played a little bit Thursday night, a few hours Friday night and, since my plans for the weekend fell through, pretty much all day Saturday and Sunday. I just checked my final saved game and it's 31 hours.
They really stripped the thing bare. Lots of features removed or simplified. Apparently nobody liked the driving in the first game so they completely removed that (unless you buy the driving DLC). The problem with the driving in ME1 was there was nothing on 90% of the planets besides a mineral deposit or two. That hasn't changed, but now you have to rub the planets with your mouse cursor in order to find mineral deposits instead of actually exploring them. It's like doing a 10' scratch-off ticket with a penny.


I actually just straight up hated the MAKO, to the point where when I Was exploring the normandy crash site, I smiled a bit when I saw its "Wreckage".

The controls were brutal, I can think of many times where the paths you were supposed to take in certain places (Liaras dig site in particular) weren't well laid out, and therefore I personally died almost every single time I got to the end because "Oh shit, I turn left theres a wall there, turn right!" and started barreling off the path into the lava, and by the time I went "Oh shit, lava!" and hit reverse, I was either too late and in the lava, or about to touch it. And for some reason, lava is an instant kill.

I did find some of it more simplified, but it took me ages to realise things from the first game were missing. I never had to worry about inventory because you never picked anything up unless it was usefull, and eventually realised I didn't have to sit there spamming clicks to sell all 150 items in my inventory, that I like. The cover system works out well, scanning works well, hacking and bypassing are 100x more fun then just the space frogger it used to be. The only true "Complaint" I have about the game, is that the biotic is borderline useless on a first playthrough, and only somewhat useful once you unlock "Reave" and can start a new game with it. Biotics don't do anything against armour, barrier, and shields. Other then that, I liked all the changes.

Hmm, apparently the borderlands review is where we talk about ME2.

I'll start by saying I really enjoyed playing it, and I look forward to ME3. It's all really well designed, and I honestly don't miss the scaled back RPG elements, nor the absence of the Mako.

That said, my chief complaint about it was that as far as the story goes, it was really more of a compliation of short stories rather than one novel-sized plot. 90% of the gameplay is spent either getting a team member, or doing the mission for a team member. The main plot about Cerberus & the Collectors just didn't have the kind of payoff I was expecting.

I also think my big disappointment was how little impact your decisions in ME1 had on anything substantive in ME2. I suppose that's to be expected, since they had to (for business reasons) make the full game experience available even to people who never played the first game, but they really could have gone a lot further with the consequences of things like whether you saved the Council or let them die, whether spared the Rachni queen, etc.

I really hope in ME3 there will be a point where you'll go "oh shit, I really shouldn't have done X in ME1!"

Wow, I didn't realize I'd be of a minority on the sift who absolutely loved Mass Effect 2. I have a love affair with Bioware, and think that the Mass Effect universe is so refreshingly original and creative (not to say it's not influenced by other sci-fi brands in some ways, but what sci-fi DOESN'T borrow from other properties?), and I was fine with the fact that they stripped down the RPG mechanics of the first one.

Mainly because ME1 was already a fairly stripped down RPG anyways, so why not streamline it a bit more? Before ME2 came out, a huge number of people complained that ME1 teetered between being a shooter and being an RPG, without enough elements of either to make it flow without feeling a bit awkward. Bioware heard these cries, and decided to streamline it, which in my opinion makes the game a more enjoyable experience ultimately. If they decided to make it a more heavy RPG, like Dragonage, then not only would they alienate a good number of their fans, but it'd be too similar to their other properties. Mass Effect stands on it's own ground, and I can only hope that the trilogy will be held as one of the great storylines in video game history. That's what it is to me.

I was so bummed when I finished the game. Right now I'm working through ME1 again so I can use an imported character.

And Netrunner, I agree. But that's generally how part two's go in trilogies these days. Part one is always a standalone nemesis, then part two sets up the storyline for the real big problem and focuses more on the intricate side-stories, while part three focuses entirely on the huge main-plot finale.

(Not much of a spoiler, but still...)***SPOILERS*** I really wish that I could find more out about the Illusive Man, though. I'm looking forward to what they plan with that character. I still get that feeling that although he hasn't really done anything totally questionable, I still shouldn't trust him. Plus, those eyes creep me out! *END SPOILERS*

>> ^cybrbeast:
Wow, so true. I played this game for 6 or 7 hours and it really becomes stale and boring.
I'm starting to feel more and more like Yahtzee in that most large and usually highly acclaimed games are becoming large disappointments. Dragon Age was barf to me (Torchlight was more entertaining). Currently playing Mass Effect 2 which seems of much lower quality than 1.
My only memorable games of recent time were Fallout 3, Dead Space (though I didn't complete it), Dirt 2, Prototype (also didn't complete), bit of GTA IV.


And the *click LMB* and kill a bajillion enemies in Torchlight with no actual plot didn't become stale and boring for you? Weird. At least Borderlands has multiplayer.

>> ^cybrbeast:
I'm starting to feel more and more like Yahtzee in that most large and usually highly acclaimed games are becoming large disappointments. Dragon Age was barf to me (Torchlight was more entertaining).

I thought Yatzhee liked Dragon Age. Sure, he's going to nitpick any game, but he said he wanted to play more of it regardless.

>> ^Abel_Prisc:
Wow, I didn't realize I'd be of a minority on the sift who absolutely loved Mass Effect 2. I have a love affair with Bioware, and think that the Mass Effect universe is so refreshingly original and creative (not to say it's not influenced by other sci-fi brands in some ways, but what sci-fi DOESN'T borrow from other properties?), and I was fine with the fact that they stripped down the RPG mechanics of the first one.
Mainly because ME1 was already a fairly stripped down RPG anyways, so why not streamline it a bit more? Before ME2 came out, a huge number of people complained that ME1 teetered between being a shooter and being an RPG, without enough elements of either to make it flow without feeling a bit awkward. Bioware heard these cries, and decided to streamline it, which in my opinion makes the game a more enjoyable experience ultimately. If they decided to make it a more heavy RPG, like Dragonage, then not only would they alienate a good number of their fans, but it'd be too similar to their other properties. Mass Effect stands on it's own ground, and I can only hope that the trilogy will be held as one of the great storylines in video game history. That's what it is to me.
I was so bummed when I finished the game. Right now I'm working through ME1 again so I can use an imported character.
And Netrunner, I agree. But that's generally how part two's go in trilogies these days. Part one is always a standalone nemesis, then part two sets up the storyline for the real big problem and focuses more on the intricate side-stories, while part three focuses entirely on the huge main-plot finale.
(Not much of a spoiler, but still...) SPOILERS I really wish that I could find more out about the Illusive Man, though. I'm looking forward to what they plan with that character. I still get that feeling that although he hasn't really done anything totally questionable, I still shouldn't trust him. Plus, those eyes creep me out! END SPOILERS


I completely loved ME2, with few exceptions. As I said before, HATED the mako, so I'm quite glad it wasn't in. My one biggest complaint was the storyline. I actually at one point in the story thought to myself "I hope this isn't just a "get all the characters and do the final mission" kind of game" And.. well, that's what it turned out to be. I just really wished there'd be more missions to do with them. I love the different reactions your crew brings to whatever you're doing, and wanted to see more of it. Unfortunately after a while you run out of things you can do with the second tier of people you can get. (And since they're second tier, you get even less with them, I really wanted to do more missions and whatnot with thane & Legion)
I just wish gathering characters was a secondary objective, rather then prettymuch primary story.

Ahh well, where's crashbug? He works for bioware right? Lets all go give him praise and bitch him out at the same time

>> ^Abel_Prisc:
Wow, I didn't realize I'd be of a minority on the sift who absolutely loved Mass Effect 2. I have a love affair with Bioware, and think that the Mass Effect universe is so refreshingly original and creative (not to say it's not influenced by other sci-fi brands in some ways, but what sci-fi DOESN'T borrow from other properties?), and I was fine with the fact that they stripped down the RPG mechanics of the first one.


I don't know if we're still a minority, but no... you're not alone on that one. Dragon Age nearly topped my top spot (Half-Life) for best gaming experience I've had, and I too really like the ME series.

I got ME1 for five bucks on sale through Steam. You have all confirmed I might as well wait for ME2's five buck sale as well - at least I'll feel like I'm getting my money's worth.

Same thing with Borderlands... maybe.

>> ^mentality:
>> ^cybrbeast:
Wow, so true. I played this game for 6 or 7 hours and it really becomes stale and boring.
I'm starting to feel more and more like Yahtzee in that most large and usually highly acclaimed games are becoming large disappointments. Dragon Age was barf to me (Torchlight was more entertaining). Currently playing Mass Effect 2 which seems of much lower quality than 1.
My only memorable games of recent time were Fallout 3, Dead Space (though I didn't complete it), Dirt 2, Prototype (also didn't complete), bit of GTA IV.

And the click LMB and kill a bajillion enemies in Torchlight with no actual plot didn't become stale and boring for you? Weird. At least Borderlands has multiplayer.


You're right that's a bit bizarre. But I didn't say I loved Torchlight, only that it was more entertaining than DAO. I really liked the setting and atmosphere in Torchlight for a while. However I also didn't finish Torchlight.
Concerning Borderlands, first-off it has bad FPS mechanics, for example when trying to shoot enemies you encounter a lot of invisible walls through which your bullets can't pass. All the moving around between and after missions wasn't much fun. Your inventory was too small. And while they tried to implement it the weapon comparison system was shite. Also the UI was as is almost always the case badly ported to PC.

Harhar at the shooting the dolphin bit. Spoilers ahead, not that the story is really worth shit.
I finished the game, singleplayer only, I guess cause I'll do anything to avoid spending time with my girl or friends unless it's drinking time.
All the criticisms are perfectly valid, but the curve; the horrid, awesomely addictive curve that Blizzard as turned in to billions of dollars; was right there. There was always a chance of a slightly better Masher, and that kept me hanging in there right up to the
[SPOILER ALERT!!!] giant vagina that is the absolutely baffling final boss [END SPOILERS]
I can only image Mr. Y didn't finish the game other wise it would be impossible not to comment on how apt a metaphore that piece of design is for the deepest fears of your average gamer.

>> ^cybrbeast:

You're right that's a bit bizarre. But I didn't say I loved Torchlight, only that it was more entertaining than DAO. I really liked the setting and atmosphere in Torchlight for a while. However I also didn't finish Torchlight.
Concerning Borderlands, first-off it has bad FPS mechanics, for example when trying to shoot enemies you encounter a lot of invisible walls through which your bullets can't pass. All the moving around between and after missions wasn't much fun. Your inventory was too small. And while they tried to implement it the weapon comparison system was shite. Also the UI was as is almost always the case badly ported to PC.


Yeah you're right. Torchlight was charming when you first step foot in it. I feel the same way about highly acclaimed games being disappointments, except with me it's Fallout 3. I've always loved the Fallout setting, and Bethesda did a wonderful job with the art and the world, but I just couldn't get past the terrible writing and the poorly implemented combat system. After reading about how the game ends, it seems like I didn't miss out on any great plot anyways =/

I also really loved the world of Fallout 3. The map was so large and the exploration so much fun that the poor quality of the main story didn't bother me that much. All the side quests and exploring was more interesting and took longer than the main quest anyway.
I really love some turn based games, and I actually liked the turn based elements they put in the combat system. It gave you time to think about your strategy, take nice shots, and I even liked the slow motion parts.
>> ^mentality:
>> ^cybrbeast:

You're right that's a bit bizarre. But I didn't say I loved Torchlight, only that it was more entertaining than DAO. I really liked the setting and atmosphere in Torchlight for a while. However I also didn't finish Torchlight.
Concerning Borderlands, first-off it has bad FPS mechanics, for example when trying to shoot enemies you encounter a lot of invisible walls through which your bullets can't pass. All the moving around between and after missions wasn't much fun. Your inventory was too small. And while they tried to implement it the weapon comparison system was shite. Also the UI was as is almost always the case badly ported to PC.

Yeah you're right. Torchlight was charming when you first step foot in it. I feel the same way about highly acclaimed games being disappointments, except with me it's Fallout 3. I've always loved the Fallout setting, and Bethesda did a wonderful job with the art and the world, but I just couldn't get past the terrible writing and the poorly implemented combat system. After reading about how the game ends, it seems like I didn't miss out on any great plot anyways =/

I still enjoyed ME2, I just found it rather light. I wanted ME2 to be Mass Effect Extreme, not Diet Mass Effect.

I was surprised to find out people had such problems driving the MAKO. I had a blast with that thing. I loved that you could land on any planet and drive around, I just wish more of those planets had something on them to discover. To me, they "fixed" planetary exploration completely backwards: they removed the fun part (exploring) and featured the boring part (there's nothing on any of the planets). If you didn't like the handling of the MAKO, that's a separate issue, IMO. I would have been fine with a completely new vehicle so long as the exploration was still an option.

Most of the feature simplifications don't bother me on their own, but all together and combined with how short the game is, I just feel like so much is missing.

Well NetRunner mirrored pretty much what I thought about ME2, it is a good game although I did indeed spend most of my time on the first play-through recruiting or loyalty missions. The game is a bit disappointing if you don't do any side missions!

I think Yahtzee missed what really kicks ass about Borderlands, and why I bought it. The game ROCKS for LAN parties. Yeah, laugh all you want, I still go to them. All of the little nitpicks he mentioned does not make an ounce of difference for the total blast you and three others in the same room(s) experience. As far as single player, oh god yes it sucks horribly. Total polarization of how you interpret the game depending on how many people are playing it.

>> ^Krupo:
I got ME1 for five bucks on sale through Steam. You have all confirmed I might as well wait for ME2's five buck sale as well - at least I'll feel like I'm getting my money's worth.


Just to clarify, I think ME2 is a great game, and a must-buy for anyone who liked the first one.

I'm mostly expressing my disappointment that it didn't meet my outlandishly high expectations for it, and that I personally preferred the story elements and nearly linear progression of the first game.

The combat mechanics are vastly improved -- it's now basically on par with a real 3rd person cover-based shooter, and that's a plus. They've ditched a lot of the RPG elements (no inventory, and no base weapon skills to level), but I found that to be a plus as well. I hated inventory management in the first one, and hate needing to level up a skill to make my aim steady with weapons. They do still have some decisions to make as far as which of your skills you level, but it's basically a base +dmg +health skill, or one of your activatable powers.

The classes also all got revamped to make them more unique and distinctive, and having tried a Soldier & Vanguard I can say that they've definitely succeeded on that front.

They ditched the Mako, but now the exploration missions are actually interesting, instead of being bland and somewhat pointless. They also went from the 4 multi-hour missions of the first game to literally 30+ sub-hour missions that you could do in almost any order (or not do if you so choose), punctuated with 3 or 4 mandatory missions at certain intervals to move the main plot along. Supposedly they'll be releasing a hovertank as DLC, but I have no idea how that will work.

I haven't played with how many ending scenarios there are yet, but I'll mention as a minor spoiler that I'm essentially certain that every single member of your team can die in the last mission, including Sheppard himself...or you can come away without losing anyone.

I personally felt the story wasn't up to the standard set by the first game, but it was a joy to play, and I'm already well into my second playthrough, and I think I'll probably do a third run -- I wanna try out the new Infiltrator class!

Really enjoyed ME2... best game I've played in a while. As for Borderlands, I finished probably about 80-90% of it before losing interest, and I have no idea how I made it even that far. It's not a bad game by any means, but I'll never go back and play it.

ME2... Me2 Me 2 Me 2 Me two... Why does everyone keep talking about themselves!?

>> ^xxovercastxx:
I still enjoyed ME2, I just found it rather light. I wanted ME2 to be Mass Effect Extreme, not Diet Mass Effect.
I was surprised to find out people had such problems driving the MAKO. I had a blast with that thing. I loved that you could land on any planet and drive around, I just wish more of those planets had something on them to discover. To me, they "fixed" planetary exploration completely backwards: they removed the fun part (exploring) and featured the boring part (there's nothing on any of the planets). If you didn't like the handling of the MAKO, that's a separate issue, IMO. I would have been fine with a completely new vehicle so long as the exploration was still an option.


I've heard that the MAKO was really tough to control on the consoles, where the MAKO followed the turret, while on the PC you can move the MAKO and turret independently. I do agree the MAKO was fun, though the things you encountered were a bit bland and generic. This mineral scanning thing is terrible, why not have the onboard AI EDI do in a microsecond what takes you minutes. Instead of ditching the MAKO thye should have just improved the variety of planetary exploration.
I also hate that they removed the weapon statistics and that there are only something like 20 different weapons. Also you can't customize your squad's armor anymore. I wish they wouldn't have simplified this game so much to please the console generation.
Still I'm having fun with it, but I doubt I'll buy the third one.

Last thing I really can't stand how game review sites always praise overhyped games to death. Just look at the metacritic site. A third of the ratings are a perfect 10 and another third 9+. Same thing with Dragon Age
Are there any honest review sites?

>> ^cybrbeast:

I wish they wouldn't have simplified this game so much to please the console generation.


AFAIK some game developers are doing this on purpose because apparently they would much rather develop ONLY for consoles than continue making PC games or ports. At least last thing about Mark Rein from Epic I read...

It's pretty dumb either way, and the planet scanning is just how they can claim say "30 hours of gameplay" while putting in 25 of real gameplay and 5 hours of a repeditive subgame. Yeah I know the mineral scanning does not take THAT long, but if you try to do all the systems I imagine it will take you 5 hours.

I actually LOVED borderlands even though he is absolutely right about the repetitiveness, but its incredibly FUN repetitiveness. When i finished it i went through the second play through and did it again, and i went through the expansion pack also.

So, don't listen to him.......try it, its REALLY fun.

I think the amount of talk about ME2 in this thread says everything that needs to be said about Borderlands...

But just in case it doesn't, one play through was enough and even that was fucking tedious. But who cares about that, back to ME2!!

Whelp, should get around to buying it at some point I guess... =\

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