im fealing a rimix coming on !

“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.”

- Bertrand Russell (Mauz )

It's a good question that guy asked. Possibly Dawkins converts more people than we might think. Not directly, religion doesn't work in such a way in people's minds that many are going to listen to his arguments and say "Yup, that makes sense, I'm an atheist now." I think he adds cognitive dissonance to every theist who hears him speak and for some of them eventually the sum of his evangelising and all the other sources of dissonance will cause the scales to tip and they'll convert 'on their own'.

I agree with what gorillaman said.

I find Dawkins approach admirable, personally, he makes his views widely known. But it's left up to you to accept it or not.

I would not say the same of many religious people, who always seem to think that their religion makes them a moral high authority in life.

All hail the great cat herder! (Oh, and upvote too.)

NSFW at the great ending there. i've been to a number of informal science talks like this where people in the audience are very much on guard with their choice of words in questioning a finding or a comment the speaker gives, and in turn recieve a hilariously unguarded response from the speaker. they are an especially common occurrance with older professors, well into their tenure. (at a conference this past year i watched as a very old man pull up a slide of porn to prove a point)

The entire discussion can be found here:
http://beyondbelief2006.org/Watch/
(10 sessions, approximately 2 hours each)

farhad2000 wrote:
“
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.”

- Bertrand Russell (Mauz )”

You have just quoted my favorite Philosopher.

Who's that speaking?

@winkler - the man posing the question, if that's what you're asking is Dr. Neil Tyson. He's an astrophysicist who's relatively new to me (that is to say, I've just seen him recently on Colbert and some Nova specials, but he's apparently been famous - within certain circles - for a while) and who is, IMHO, really cool.

Also, I love him more now that he's verbalized one of my major problems with Dawkins - that his often brilliant commentary would be much more well-received if it were only combined with an ounce of - what to call it? Empathy, maybe.

Yes, very true Brendo. I found his delivery a little rough, at first, because i'd always thought that religious beliefs should never be questioned (certainly not so bluntly). Though later, I figure he struck a chord with me because i'd already come to some conclusions about religion and he was able to put it in a scientific sense. So I can entirly see why believers (not the fence sitters he generally hopes to appeal to) would get their backs up. Which is certainly not the frame of mind you'd like an audience to take, should you want them to listen to you seriously.

But... it would seem that since he's been on the world stage (in the internet type way), his "barbed" approach has helped give the conversation another kick start. I honestly don't think one more quiet, well-mannered discussionist would've stirred up the debate quite like it has been.

I don't see Dawkins displaying any doubt, Farhad. Are you saying he's a fool, or a fanatic?

"I don't see Dawkins displaying any doubt, Farhad. Are you saying he's a fool, or a fanatic? "

Rather then answer you directly, I'll let the man speak for himself.

If Dawkins went around trying to "convert" people to atheism, then he'd be no better than the Mormons or the Jehovah's whiteness's that go door to door trying to convert you to their religion.

I took a trip to new york recently and had the pleasure of seeing a similar talk to this one featuring Dr. Tyson and Ann Druyan. Turns out he was a student of Carl Sagan's at Cornell and runs the Hayden Planetarium at the American Museum of Natural History. Very personable guy.

Thanks for that great link mauz15, I'm going to be sinking my teeth into that shortly!

" If Dawkins went around trying to "convert" people to atheism, then he'd be no better than the Mormons or the Jehovah's whiteness's..."

Yes, I also thought about addressing the title of this post, jimnms.... My understanding of the man is that he wishes to convince people that to not believe in God is not an outlandish or radical idea, and that people who question the existance of God should not be thought of as untrustworthy or amoral by those who choose to. This point is lost sometimes, as he frequently uses the 'a good offense is the best defense' strategy in his books and appearances.

I'd say the main reason you don't see so many 'converts' to atheism is a matter of consequences. The consequences of atheism according to theists is eternal damnation (whether it's real or imagined). The consequences of theism according to atheists is nothing; a true neutral result. It's much easier to gain converts when the alternative is hell.

"If Dawkins went around trying to "convert" people to atheism, then he'd be no better than the Mormons or the Jehovah's whiteness's that go door to door trying to convert you to their religion."

This is just something theists say to reassure themselves they don't have to listen to the nasty atheist and his rational arguments. The irony is that you're unwittingly expressing the case for atheism. Why do all religions deserve equal respect? Because no religion is demonstrably in the right. Why is no religion demonstrably in the right? Because there's no evidence for a deity of any kind. So what is the correct position? Atheism is the correct position.

Atheists are quite capable of being as obnoxious and self-righteous as the pious.

Atheists are no better or worse than anyone else.

The MCP is God.

End of line.

" I think he adds cognitive dissonance to every theist who hears him speak and for some of them eventually the sum of his evangelising and all the other sources of dissonance will cause the scales to tip and they'll convert 'on their own'.

This is the same caution and disgression sorely lacking when passing down knowlege from parent to child. esp. with regard to spirituality-teach them how to learn not what to believe-also, jimmins comment rings true, for the devout of any conviction, who, "would that the world believe"

Like Lennon wrote , "Imagine" whatever you wish dreamers,
that world as one stuff is all in yer pipe!

*promote

Promoting this video back to the front page; last published Monday, December 11th, 2006 7:46pm PST - promote requested by BicycleRepairMan.

*quality, for SlipperyPete

Boosting this quality contribution up in the Hot Listing - declared quality by demon_ix.

ahhhhhhhhhhahahahhahahahah.

Oh fucking snaptasm

Yeah I've always liked listening to Dawkins but for only short periods of time. Because I recognize that he can be a real dick when he wants to be and he can be really nice as well. I pretty much agree with the idea of the Atheist movement save for one thing. I don't really care if there's a movement about it or not. I don't care if it changes anything I don't care what it's purpose is. Just leave me the fuck alone, whether you're religious or religiously anti-religious.

i guess it was followed wth a further answer, but his punchline didn't really answer the question regarding empathy to other's worldviews.
got me thinking for a second though, he's not gonna sway hardcore religious folk anyway. the ones that would be offended.
the people that can be swayed by the evidence are the fence-sitters, and so he probably does take a good approach, battle the stupid out of people.

>> ^quantumushroom:
Atheists are quite capable of being as obnoxious and self-righteous as the pious.
Atheists are no better or worse than anyone else.
The MCP is God.
End of line.



MCP? Molecular and Cellular Proteomics??

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