riiiiiight.... perhaps 500 years. 50 is ridiculous.

yea. cuz from 1900 to 1950, and 1950 to 2000 there were like, no changes to anything.

exponents anyone...

We have the longest standing constitution in the history of the world, we're due to fall apart soon - hopefully in my lifetime.

I'm calling dibs on IdealistLand. Freedom to do, view, smoke, drink, believe, perform, think, (insert other actions I may have missed here) anything you like, as long as it does not bring harm to another fellow Idealist.

It's an interesting proposal anyway; people who are pro-choice or pro-life, or socialist or libertarian could just move to a city-state that predominately shares their views (and reap the benefits/costs).

the world is ending in 2012 anyway...duh

No empire lasts forever. Whether it is 50 or 500 years, the US as we know it will eventually cease to exist and something else will take its place. Will it be better or worse? That is the real question. Unfortunately as history shows, the likelihood of things (initially) becoming worse is much greater.

Lets also make this clear. The US of today is not a Democracy as aspired by the founders. It is a Demopublican Plutocratic Kleptocracy. Run by corporate interests, for corporate interests.

It's unfortunate the sift is overflowing with America haters. They cannot be faulted for their ignorance of what makes the USA unique in the history of the world, as American history is even neglected by our government-run school system.

Last year, private American citizens gave 309 billion dollars to charities, so this bullcrap about Americans being selfish and "destroying the planet" is just that.

^QM, you mention "money." Have you ever considered that plutocratic, kleptocratic, oligarchic, oiligarchic, fascist, technocratic "money" is a social construction to restrict the people's inherent right to 21st century medicine, information techology, and other fruits of the free market our natural socialist utopia?

I fail to see how a state governor refusing a request from a politically weak and unpopular President constitutes proof that America is being broken up into city-states. And Arnie can stand up there and give press conferences with heads of state all he likes. In terms of his actual ability to sign a treaty with foreign powers, he has none. As environmental groups were quick to point out, the press conference amounted to nothing more than a symbolic gesture.

Because in Singapore, commit a crime, you'll be whipped into submission and learn to not make the same mistake twice. Maybe the USA needs to learn a thing or two from them?

Have you ever considered that plutocratic, kleptocratic, oligarchic, oiligarchic, fascist, technocratic "money" is a social construction to restrict the people's inherent right to 21st century medicine, information techology, and other fruits of...our natural socialist utopia?

Short answer: no.

Expanded answer: People in free societies nor anyone else have a natural "right" to take goods and services created by others without fair, agreed-upon terms of compensation. Karl Marx thought that profits were invented by greedy capitalists and therefore unnecessary to run a viable economic system. He was wrong.

Succinctly: There is no free lunch.

Fast forward 100 years. Nanotech and robotics will likely make virtually every product, good and service affordable worldwide...free peoples working in free markets will be the fastest path to that goal, not nanny-state governments, theocracies or monarchies.

As long as your avatar does the whipping, otherwise no thanks.

>> ^syncron:
Because in Singapore, commit a crime, you'll be whipped into submission and learn to not make the same mistake twice. Maybe the USA needs to learn a thing or two from them?

qm, Capitalism is not effective when it comes to providing social services such as education, health care and defense because profit motive drives up costs and provides no motive to give quality service.

For instance Iraq. The government has farmed much of the work out to the private sector which means there is no oversight or accountability. Blackwater mercenaries are allowed to operate outside of the law, murdering American troops and Iraqi civilians without any consequences. Halliburton was contracted to provide food for the troops, so to keep costs down, they served spoiled food and tainted water sending many troops to the hospital. The list of these abuses could fill a library.

It is in the interest of profit that the occupation continues for as long as possible with as little progress made as possible to ensure more profit in the future

Education would be the same way. Expensive high quality schools for the well healed and substandard crap for everyone else.

Same goes for healthcare. Sick people are good for profit, so there would be no logical reason to provide adequate service.

You drive on nanny roads every day, are protected by the nanny firemen, nanny police and nanny military, listen to propaganda on the radio via nanny signal.

Why don't you move to a capitalist paradise like Darfur where you will be unhindered by government regulation?

>> ^quantumushroom:
Fast forward 100 years. Nanotech and robotics will likely make virtually every product, good and service affordable worldwide...free peoples working in free markets will be the fastest path to that goal, not nanny-state governments, theocracies or monarchies.


Now that's interesting. When we reach that state will we then have, as chilaxe put it, our natural socialist utopia?

I'm sorry guys, I have to say that I'm bad at satire (above).

I agree with QM that the inevitable result of our technological progress is freeing humankind from drudgery, and that free markets are the fastest path to that.

I do think we can reach a natural socialist utopia, but I feel like socialism today can distract people from the lesson of capitalism; everybody benefits most - and life is most satisfying - when you work both smart and hard and live up to your potential.

I also think DFT makes a good case that good regulation can be essential

when i moved to lithuania, the immigration process was terrible. i wrote in a magazine article that to me, nation states were just different brands of "life", and i was free to choose whatever EU state I wanted to live in, and Lithuania needed some better marketing and PR.

Lithuania should provide me with free beer while i wait for the forms to be processed, and maybe a massage. there should be a group of dancing girls singing "Welcome to Lithuania, The best place to pay your taxes, thankyou for applying for a residence permit".

That is definitely the future, as people stop caring so much about their "homeland" and all the bullshit that goes with it. Politicians are losing their grip on that tool.
It could happen within a couple of generations, i.e. 50 years, maybe when nationalism goes out of fashion after too many ridiculous wars over microregions.

>> ^quantumushroom:
It's unfortunate the sift is overflowing with America haters... Last year, private American citizens gave 309 billion dollars to charities, so this bullcrap about Americans being selfish and "destroying the planet" is just that.


Right, so when we criticise the Bush Administration we are obviously "hating america" and ignoring the fact that most americans are not war criminals.