Yes, there are many, many examples of responsible gun ownership. Nobody is questioning that, and I count many good friends as examples.

The problem is that our society does not just accept guns, it is obsessed with guns, it looks at guns with hungry eyes and it latches tenaciously to the false sense of security given by unbridled ownership. It wants guns in more variety, with more capabilities and in larger quantities than any sane citizen could ever use.

And this has effects.

These excesses find use in Mexico. These excesses find use in gang warfare, school shootings, domestic disputes, armed robberies and at least on a more personally felt level, these excesses reflect a value system of fear, mistrust and isolation that I detest.

Give me one example of a high capacity magazine being both necessary and properly used in self defense. I want you to give me an example of one person unloading more than ten rounds against aggressors, and doing so in a situation that legally warrants it and was necessitated by circumstance (freaking out and shooting rounds indiscriminately does not count).

Give me one example of government over-reach being suppressed primarily by personal firearms. I'll even let you look around the world and as far back as the early 20th century for examples - I think you'll find that armed internal conflicts tend to sway with the military's whims or with external support.

For each instance of high capacity magazine use, I will give you ten instances of mass shootings made possible in part by their existence.

For each instance of successful armed civic insubordination, I will give you a hundred examples of change being accomplished with nothing more than a pen, a voice or a peaceful protest.

The problem here is that though gun owners are frequently responsible on an individual basis, their overall view on the utility of these tools in our society is completely out of line with the reality of a modern world. This is what gun control should be about: diluting these fantasies.

^This^

And lots of it...


I'm british and in the UK you can still shoot at targets, competition shoot, even hunt with guns. There is a gun culture here, but it's completely different to the US, and I hope it stays that way. We don't have a national obsession with weapons.

I really don't see how this video demonstrates the efficacy of gun control. What is the point of this video?

indeed

He's trying to say that proper and responsible use of guns (as depicted by this video) is the only form of gun "control" that works.

FWIW, I think this video and title represents a perspective on the gun debate that makes sense to a lot of people, and therefore we really shouldn't downvote it.

Teaching responsibility is not gun control (though it is a good idea). Gun control is limiting the ability of people who have no desire to be responsible from getting their hands on the weapons in the first place.

He's trying to say what?

Sorry, that's just what I understood from it. You showed a video of young and old people being skilled, controlled, responsible, etc... owners and titled it as an example of gun control being effective.

Perhaps it is just the charged atmosphere around this topic these days, but I have encountered a lot of people saying something to the effect of ”there is plenty of gun control already, I am responsible and in control of my guns" so I just put two and two together...

What were you saying then?

Aside from the overall tone of your previous rambling sentiments on the subject (ahem, "rapid reload of semi-automatic and double-action revolvers"), the emphasis with "parenthesis" of a single word with clear intent to elicit ( showcasing an all-to-familiar lack of, "control" ), the subjective inference as to my inspiration or motivation for posting this video/ it's timing or titling...(down votes?! WHERE?!)???....I'd say your initial analysis reads like horse shit.
Thank you for your passionate observations and curiosity.

Oh and, down votes for any reason I heartily endorse and encourage,...Thanks for the advice on behalf of the three already with jerking-knees long-inebriate with the Kool-Aide, and for those to follow there, shcveddmeyer

Fantastic. This post should be framed, and studied by people.

Note the complete and utter lack of sense, the rambling, disjointed nature and the total failure to make anything approaching a coherent argument. I have to ask, is English your first language?

And then to top it off, you insult the one guy on this thread who doesn't think you're a raving lunatic.

Well I'm flabbergasted. I was trying to get people to stop down-voting your video, because I wanted your voice to be heard regardless of whether or not people disagree with you. And then I politely asked for clarification on what you were saying because I felt there might be a misunderstanding.

Now I just think more people should see you make an ass if yourself. Please get this video sifted, people.

*promote

Invocations (promote) cannot be called by shveddy because shveddy is not privileged - sorry.

I understand your flabbergast and I sense your sincerity, appreciated. As for the desired/elicited clarification with regard to what I was saying??...I didn't say shit, I posted a video in the wake of current-affairs having to do with guns and read your sound, valid, cogent, and passionate foray into the world as you would have it be interpreted or experienced....and then-You suggested that I was saying something.
Wasn't saying anything, merely tossing some chum out to check the regular rabble's response-time, and yours was the most long-winded and similar I decided to poke.

Yeah. Don't put words in mouths or infer, might make you seem like an insurgent...trouble-maker...Team-Player??

ChaosEngine??
Frame it. Bookmark it if it satisfy, your on the short list of reasonably consistent, snide, smug, comments regarding this particular subject you have a strong feeeling for, I can relate. If you can't get the jyst, the meat of what was written, simplycall me names, retarded, rude, hayseed....give a fuck. You took the bait and I'm on a boat.

"complete and utter lack of sense, the rambling, disjointed nature and the total failure to make anything approaching a coherent argument...blah, blah, schoolyard-shenannigans, BLAH
" NOTE: TO you sir: To you my words seem thus, to you and a vehement minority of folks. Perception is a motherfucker.

If I had 2 I'd do it myself if but for the sake of making new friends or lasting relationships-Everyone can use friends, dime-a-baker's-dozen that they are...

sheveddy, I had a simple problem with the tone and timbre of your diatribe regarding the subject and the ass isn't shown until the fat ladies dance it....this thread may burn a while, or fizzle the fuck out, I apologize if I ruffled your tender sensibilities mate, we're from the back-a-bourke here in Texas.

Moving this video to chingalera's personal queue. It failed to receive enough votes to get sifted up to the front page within 2 days.

English, motherfucka! Do you speak it?

I'm sorry if I appear snide and smug to you. That's simply because I have a low tolerance for people who try to hide their lack of debating skills behind pseudo-intellectual bollocks.

Perception may be a motherfucker, but more likely it's simply a failing on your part to communicate with any kind of clarity.

But you're actually right. I took the bait, argued with a troll and now I'm wallowing in the mire of your idiocy. And it's so fucking boring.
So I'm out.

You win.

gg no re

"Two examples of how using a gun properly makes the bullets hit their intended target swiftly and surely"?

shveddy, dude I think you're over-reacting. Perhaps you've been watching too many Piers Morgan shows.

Yes, the US has a gun culture. The problem with guns is not that people are hoarding them, the problem is that too many people who own them have no respect for other people's lives...that's the black youth culture, which is born out by the number of them who lose their lives every day.

Gun collectors keep their firearms locked up 99% of the time. But to a black youth, a gun is a great equalizer to defend his machismo. It's in their music but there are too many cowards who refuse to address it.

I really wouldn't be able to pick Piers Morgan out of a line up. I wrote that first comment over a year ago in the immediate aftermath of the Newtown shooting and it was largely a response to the rhetoric pro-gun advocates were displaying all over my Facebook feed.

What I wrote is not at all an over-reaction to what I saw during that time.

Totally normal and sane friends of mine applauded a ten year old girl who shot and killed a home invader, enthusing that this is how America should be.

Totally normal and sane friends of mine waxed romantic about how concealing and carrying a weapon transforms a vanilla suburban dining experience into a potential battlefield. Whereas most people get lost in one of the many flat screen TVs at an Applebees, they spend their time sizing up potential adversaries and keep close tabs on every exit as they feel the reassuring bulge of their Glock at their side.

I totally agree that most of these guys will never end up needing to use their weapons in an adversarial situation, and I totally agree that these guys are responsible gun owners if responsible gun ownership is defined by a safe stewardship of the guns you acquire, but that is not the point that I'm trying to make.

The problem is that these sorts of people and the gun culture they have created has an enormous impact on the type of gun laws we pass. This wouldn't be a problem if they were coming from a place that wasn't obsessive and wasn't paranoid and wasn't delusional, but they are and this is unfortunate because it enables and accentuates much of the violence you lament in inner city culture.

So what you are saying is that the lawmakers are bowing to NRA lobbyists and not passing laws that would disarm black youth.

I'd love to know what laws would disarm black youth.

Over the long term, the comparative levels of scarcity that would result from a complete hand gun and assault rifle ban would make it difficult for these weapons to play such a common role in violence amongst minorities.

But of course we can't ever ban these weapons because we need to have the option of starting a guerrilla war against the US government in suburban Cleveland - because that's the only way to get rid of tyranny!

Wow.
That's super stupid, dude. I really don't want to insult you here BUT (yes, every asshole got one) what you wrote there is so much beyond silly or naive, there's no other word for it.
Let's cut the crap here, what you imply with "black youth" is gangmembers, right? We're talking gangs and gang violence. Well, these guys don't walk into a gun store and just buy their Glocks with a credit card. Most of them would probably buy them in illegal ways (because commiting crimes with guns licensed in your name is dumb) so gun legislation has not such an big impact on them anyways.
What the gun laws impact and what causes people to get upset and demanding more regulation is when "black youths" who are armed with skittles and ice tea get shot by scared "latin middleageds". It's when psychologically damaged, middleclass, white teens take their parents guns to school to each everyone a lesson, as seen in Columbine or Newtown. That's why people want regulation.
Criminals will always have access to guns, they don't have to rely on the NRA's uncanny ability to block all progress. Criminals is not who you have to worry here.
It's the dipshits and psychos. The schoolshoters, the parents that aren't able to keep their guns from their kids, the idiots who can't clean a gun while it's unloaded, people who have to stand their ground in the face of loud music, they're the problem. The so called responsible gun owners.

I don't care for your racism and even less for this weird and idiotic idea that black people with their violent music are the problematic aspect of american gun culture. Not everbody should have a gun, some people are simply not responsible enought for it and not all kinds of guns need to be available either. Or are you trying to tell me now that the Bushmaster .223 caliber XM15-E2S rifle is designed for hunting?

Mass shootings and irresponsible gun owners represent a small fraction of gun violence and as such they shouldn't be the main justification for gun laws.

The problem is that our gun culture creates an environment that makes illegal guns more available (in Mexico and urban environments, among others), and that it puts guns within reach when someone gets a violent urge (whether against themselves or others).

Laws should be tailored to help gradually change that gun culture over the long term.