eh
why wasn't this in the film?
the film wasn't bad but it needed straight talk like this
oh, right, cos it needed to be interesting and have explosions every five minutes to make it sell

True, they wanted the movie to make money, This guy makes a lot of sense though!

I find Moore's narrative on health care too simplistic. By his logic, should every good and service that is difficult for the average layman consumer to understand, thus opening up the potential for firm exploitation, be nationalised?

Expanding from the argument that insurance companies hide behind fine print to deny care and that provides a mandate for nationalisation, should we also nationalise car/computer repairmen? After all, most people don't have sufficient understanding of either to know whether they're being overcharged.

There's tons of examples of this, ranging from haircuts to medical operations where the consumer either doesn't know what they're getting into before they buy (referred to as an experience good), and where they really have no way to measure the utility they received even after they've purchased the good (referred to as a credence good). Both of these topics are covered pretty intensively in any subjects you take on Marketing or Economics.

What's needed is not nationalisation, which while fixing some perverse incentives might create some undesirable new ones, or might make whatever industry you apply it to highly inefficient. Instead you need greater transparency, you need standard setting to ensure that difficult terminology can be simplified for the average joe, allowing them to judge one product against another, and you need to find ways to force the consumer to become informed.

^ I think Moore's narrative is more simplistic than that.

First, he shows what happens when we do things our way. Then he shows what happens in places that have government taking larger roles in healthcare. Then he reminds us that our way is more expensive, and worse, their way is less expensive, and better.

I'm not sure if you're arguing against a more nationalized healthcare system, or just saying the argument doesn't hold much weight in other areas, but I'd say when it comes to medicine we need to fix the perverse incentives, period. I do not think transparency and more informed consumers is that fix, though.

However, that might help with auto repair...

I was talking more in the context of the video where they talk about the incentive to under provide by private insurers being a complete deal breaker for a private health care system, and then contrast it with the socialised program for the military, as if suggesting that's the only alternative.

My understanding is that's Moore's general position. After all, he made no effort in Sicko to examine countries which have good value and quality health care but maintain a primarily private insurance system with mandated participation and some regulatory measures. My point was merely that that's not a valid argument in and of itself for nationalisation.

@RedSky:

from wikipedia

"Universal health care is implemented in all of the wealthy, industrialized countries, with the one exception being the United States. It is also provided in many developing countries and is the trend worldwide."

Yes, and like I said, some of these are based on publicly provided insurance schemes, whereas others are typically mandated privately provided programs. I'm for every citizen being provided a certain level of guaranteed health care ultimately funded through taxation if they cannot afford it, I'm just saying that this can be dealt with in a number of different ways.

Oh yep, fair enough, I didn't quite get what you meant there.

But I don't see the point in having a private enterprise involved if the government ends up paying for the medical services anyway (plus a cut for the insurer).

I could listen to this man talk for months. Whether you agree or disagree, he at least has thought things through thoroughly... which is really rare lately.

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