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49 Comments
sfjockosays...http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/neuro/neuro02/web1/hhochman.html
"Meat all the Way Down": Colin McGinn's The Mysterious Flame
"Early in The Mysterious Flame, (1)., philosopher Colin McGinn's breezy but provocative discussion of the relationship between consciousness and the brain, McGinn presents a telling vignette from a science fiction story in which aliens are discussing their observations of humans:
"These creatures are the only sentient race in the sector and they're made out of meat. . . .They're meat all the way through."
"No brain?"
"Oh, there is a brain all right. It's just that the brain is made out of meat."
"So . . .what does the thinking?"
"You're not understanding, are you? The brain does the thinking. The meat."
"Thinking meat! You're asking me to believe in thinking meat!"
"Yes, thinking meat! Conscious meat! Loving meat. Dreaming meat. The meat is the whole deal. Are you getting the picture?" (1).
It is this apparent contradiction, that initially insensate organic material can create consciousness, a phenomenon without apparent material content or spatial location, which McGinn sets out to explain. Many philosophers and scientists have undertaken this journey before him, but McGinn contends that this long road of philosophical inquiry is actually a blind alley. While McGinn believes that the mind is indeed a product of the material qualities of the brain, he argues that the mind (or brain) does not itself possess the ability solve what philosophers denominate "the mind-body problem," (although "mind-brain problem" might be more accurate).
McGinn begins by rejecting both traditional materialism and dualism. Materialists propose that the brain and consciousness are one and the same: thus, brain waves not only correlate with consciousness, they are consciousness. McGinn faults this position for ignoring the very nature of conscious experience. The experience of consciousness, he argues, does not directly correlate with brain waves or the activity on a PET scan. Studying these physical phenomena alone will tell the observer nothing about the experience of consciousness, while endless introspective inspection of one's conscious state would not lead to any description of the brain's anatomy or physiology, let alone that neurons within it were firing as one thought.
Likewise, McGinn rejects dualism, the proposition that consciousness exists completely independent of the brain, because its proponents also ignore empirical observations. Were consciousness completely disconnected from the brain, a fully functioning brain could exist without consciousness, and consciousness could exist independent of the brain, thereby producing what McGinn terms ghosts (disembodied minds) and zombies (organisms with mindless brains, beings who can act but who do not perceive). Dualism thus does not account for empirical observations of conscious organisms, in which the consciousness's existence appears to depend on the brain's activity, and vice-versus. Yet neither science nor philosophy has yet offered a satisfactory explanation of this interdependence.
McGinn offers a third way out of the mind-brain problem: pessimism and acceptance of failure. McGinn agrees with materialists that it is properties of the brain, and the brain alone, which produce consciousness. These properties, however, are unknowable, emerging in their turn from properties of space and matter that the human brain cannot perceive. He postulates a theory he dubs "mysterianism," a respectable way of saying the world will never know. McGinn argues that, in contemplating the origin and nature of consciousness, the human mind has come to the edge of its conceptual capacity: the mind peers over the cliff, but can see nothing but an endless abyss below. While human intelligence can perceive the problem, it cannot understand the answer. "
by Hilary Hochman
PhunkyChickensays...That's a lot of typing. Cool concept good script.
Kruposays...Trippy - and now I'm hungry.
bellmansays...The entire dialog is reproduced here:
http://futureworldruler.blogspot.com/2002/10/subject-talking-meat-dialogue-by-terry.html
What makes it so creepy, is that the blogger was later arrested for killing a 10 year-old girl in a plan to eat her corpse. Story here:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/04/16/underwood.ap/index.html
Sorry the links don't work, HTML is disabled for some reason.
dagsays...Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)
Wow - some really nice understated performances here. Very well done. It proves the point that you don't need a big budget to make a very thought provoking film, in this case all you need is an old diner and a bellboy's costume.
deathcowsays...> all you need is an old diner and a bellboy's
> costume
Diner scene? dont forget SAMUEL MOTHER #$!ING JACKSON
benjeesays...*dead
siftbotsays...The link to this video has been flagged as dead. Fix it within 7 days or it will be discarded (dead called by gold star member BenJee)
antsays...Fixed
*undead
siftbotsays...The link to this video has been fixed (undead called by original submitter ant)
sometimessays...*promote
siftbotsays...Re-promoting this video to the front page as a VideoSift Classic. Originally published on Friday 5th May 2006 (promotion called by gold star member sometimes)
dagsays...Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)
Good promote. Love this one.
James Roesays...*dead
siftbotsays...The link to this video has been flagged as dead. Fix it within 7 days or it will be discarded (dead called by gold star member James Roe)
siftbotsays...Discarding this video. It was flagged as dead but not flagged undead within 7 days.
Farhad2000says...Don't understand why this was discarded. Its working.
*blog
siftbotsays...Sending this video to Sift Talk for discussion (sent by gold star member farhad2000)
antsays...Yeah, James why was it discarded?
*undead
siftbotsays...Only dead videos may be flagged undead (ignoring request by gold star member ant)
antsays...Bah.
antsays...*return
James Roesays...Hey, the video appears to have been discarded because of a problem with our code in relations to dead calls. The video was orginally a youtube video, and has been swapped out. The youtube video certainly was no longer working. I will return this to the front.
James Roesays...*undead
siftbotsays...Only dead videos may be flagged undead (ignoring request by gold star member James Roe)
James Roesays...*return
siftbotsays...Returning this video from Sift Talk (Returned by gold star member James Roe)
antsays...Thank you.
Farhad2000says...Surprised at the speed of this community sometimes.
loorissays...i loved it, gread short movie.
therealblankmansays...*promote
siftbotsays...Re-promoting this video to the front page as a VideoSift Classic. Originally published on Sunday 3rd December 2006 (promotion called by gold star member therealblankman)
k8_fansays...This story has been posted on the net many times since the late 90s. I did a little searching, and found that it was originally written by Terry Bisson and published in his short story collection "Bears Discover Fire and Other Stories".
sometimessays...*promote
siftbotsays...Promoting this classic video back to the front page; last published Friday, January 5th, 2007 3:28am PST - promote requested by sometimes.
dagsays...Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)
One of my all-time favorites - and might I add *scifi
siftbotsays...Adding video to channels (Scifi) - requested by dag.
oxdottirsays...It kind of shocks me that it looks like someone else tried to absorb this nebula award story and present it as their own.
Like all realizations of treasured works, I had trouble with this one: the two aliens being meat and making meat sounds at each other while being amazed that we were meat is just off. I'm no video producer, but I would want some light tinkling at other evanescent stuff while observing meat. They could have still used the cool costumes!
siftbotsays...Tags for this video have been changed from 'meat, short funny story, movie' to 'meat, short, funny, story, movie, tom noonan' - edited by my15minutes
my15minutessays...*shortfilms
siftbotsays...Adding video to channels (Shortfilms) - requested by my15minutes.
critical_dsays...*length=00:07:22
siftbotsays...The duration of this video has been updated from unknown to 7:22 - length declared by critical_d.
oohahhsays...Been awhile. *promote
siftbotsays...Promoting this video back to the front page; last published Friday, May 5th, 2006 10:37am PDT - promote requested by oohahh.
oohahhsays...*dead
siftbotsays...This video has been declared non-functional; embed code must be fixed within 2 days or it will be sent to the dead pool - declared dead by oohahh.
oohahhsays...*backup=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfPdhsP8XjI
antsays...Fixed and thanks.
*backup=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfPdhsP8XjI
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