*promote

Self promoting this video and sending it back into the queue for one more try; last queued Sunday, August 22nd, 2010 9:02pm PDT - promote requested by original submitter bleedmegood.

If there was a thumbnail of Tim and the name of the video was 'white privilege', bet more white folk would watch it as opposed to a vid with a thumbnail of a person of color talking about white privilege, yah mean?

Regardless, Tim wise is mighty good and his incorporation of class analysis boosts his points with me.

*promote

There's no such thing as white privilege; there's no such thing as a white race or a black race. It seems harsh to say this guy spent an hour talking about literally nothing at all, but there it is. He's living in a fantasy world where people are linked in a way that simply doesn't exist in any objective sense.

The world is a collection of individuals, and some of us were born into disadvantageous circumstances and some of us were born into advantageous circumstances. Yes, in the past some more individuals behaved like dicks to some other individuals, for a variety of reasons, and some of us have benefited incidentally from that while others have not. But that's really all it boils down to, the whole history of humanity is just one big roll of the dice, and some of us rolled higher than others.

Now, if we want to talk about correcting those imbalances on an individual basis through whatever social means - progressive taxes, subsidies, culling racists, fine; that could be a conversation worth having, but if we're going to go on pretending we've all been naturally and necessarily divided into these arbitrary tribes based on vague genetic similarities, well, it's just noise.

I may be misunderstanding your point. So, sure, any anthropology class will teach you that race doesn't really exist and is only a cultural construct, like gender (not sex, gender).

But to say that inequality based on who your ancestors were doesn't exist and that how you may be subconsciously perceived by societal institutions is just a "roll of the dice" is a bit of a stretch.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say with that last line. But American society was indeed set up to intentionally draw lines based on "race" and to both create and exploit racial tensions. And it worked fantastically well. Poor whites and white indentured servants were intentionally pitted against black slaves to be a buffer against revolts. The same concept is still being used to day with extravagant success, pit the lower classes against each other on the basis of some arbitrary tribe identification and they won't look too closely at how actively you're fucking them all over.

>> ^gorillaman:

There's no such thing as white privilege; there's no such thing as a white race or a black race. It seems harsh to say this guy spent an hour talking about literally nothing at all, but there it is. He's living in a fantasy world where people are linked in a way that simply doesn't exist in any objective sense.
The world is a collection of individuals, and some of us were born into disadvantageous circumstances and some of us were born into advantageous circumstances. Yes, in the past some more individuals behaved like dicks to some other individuals, for a variety of reasons, and some of us have benefited incidentally from that while others have not. But that's really all it boils down to, the whole history of humanity is just one big roll of the dice, and some of us rolled higher than others.
Now, if we want to talk about correcting those imbalances on an individual basis through whatever social means - progressive taxes, subsidies, culling racists, fine; that could be a conversation worth having, but if we're going to go on pretending we've all been naturally and necessarily divided into these arbitrary tribes based on vague genetic similarities, well, it's just noise.

@gorillaman I think Obama touched on that sentiment when he was asked if his daughters should be given boosts on their college applications because of their skin color. His reply was that his daughters should be treated as people who have lived advantaged lives.

*long

Invocations (long) cannot be called by alizarin because alizarin is not privileged - sorry.

Go far enough back and we all have the same ancestors. After that, there were a bunch of people and some of them preyed on others. At the same time, there were any number of disasters and windfalls, any amount of luck, good and bad, death, disease, theft, charity, feuds and reconciliations, new ideas and paradigms; all of which affected the society in which we find ourselves and the advantages our parents could pass onto us, what our grandparents could pass on to our parents, our great-grandparents to our grandparents and on. Historical inequality exists, racially driven and, crucially, otherwise, but all of it completely beyond our control so it may as well have been random. Do we consider every bounce of the die in its course, or do we just say it came up six?

Say a millionaire discovered he would have been twice as rich if only his maid's ancestors hadn't ripped his family off 500 years ago, does the maid write him a cheque? History may make for amusing speculation, but it's not a serious study and can never be applied to anything meaningful. For example, I like the idea that black and white were getting along fine until the 1600s when some scheming rich folk invented racism.

>> ^peggedbea:

I may be misunderstanding your point. So, sure, any anthropology class will teach you that race doesn't really exist and is only a cultural construct, like gender (not sex, gender).
But to say that inequality based on who your ancestors were doesn't exist and that how you may be subconsciously perceived by societal institutions is just a "roll of the dice" is a bit of a stretch.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say with that last line. But American society was indeed set up to intentionally draw lines based on "race" and to both create and exploit racial tensions. And it worked fantastically well. Poor whites and white indentured servants were intentionally pitted against black slaves to be a buffer against revolts. The same concept is still being used to day with extravagant success, pit the lower classes against each other on the basis of some arbitrary tribe identification and they won't look too closely at how actively you're fucking them all over.

To read someone suggest that white privilege doesn't exist is taking 'arguing first principles' to such a dim place.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJx-uGRsiNU

*quality

Boosting this quality contribution up in the Hot Listing - declared quality by Tymbrwulf.

it seems strange to focus on Race "white & black prilages"

I realy think Race is just a small part of a larger issue and infact by only atacking the Race aspect you are simply cusing problemes down the line when it comes to resolving the issue at large. ( although a descussoin on race specifcaly is fine and intresting)


people naturaly form groups as a way to survive most benoficaily people allso will use visual , interlectual and cultral simularities as a way to bond.

this is what needs to be broken down ,

The idea that your or an( interlectual , cultral , racail ,) group is anny more valid or deserving of basic human respect and rights than another.

Seperate to all that , i found this guys method of presentatoin almost intolerable.

I would much prefer sumone to be consice when talking about philasophical or scentific issues , than sumone trying to be all emotive and convaying things like some sort of public speech in which to rally suport Its as if he was pining for my atentoin which is totaly unecacery in this contxt of a hall setting with camaras filming.

Im not always against emotive speeking to convay things i just think for an audeance of this age , it comes across as quite condecending allso just because sumone makes an argument with passoin dose not make the content of there argument anny more or less true.

This speech is bullshit by a White Guy who doesn't want to get a real job. Good on him that he's getting away with it. He's very privileged so many rubes are eating (t)his shit up.

"...The idea that your or an( interlectual , cultral , racail ,) group is anny more valid or deserving of basic human respect and rights than another."


Strawman. Correcting historical imbalances and injustices e.g., the US civil rights movement, is not unfairly preferential to privileged whites.

I had to watch this video in a "Race Matters" seminar for work.

That's when I knew I was working at the right place.

@gorillaman

Anyone who thinks white privilege isn't real obviously isn't brown.

You're saying that every brown person that isn't treated statistically as equal as the average whitie is purely a result of chance?

Which is obviously bullshit because individuals are responsible for all their actions.

[Even if our Ego & conscience trying to steer our dumb animalistic brains is akin to a flea controlling a bear.]

So while chance may have bestowed great riches onto all white folk and Aids, sickle cell, and markedly lower generational wealth onto all brown folk..

They really doesn't make up the whole ..lynchin'-motherfuckers-and-displaying-them-in-trees-because-they-tried-to-attend-school-where-there-were-white-girls.. gap.

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Also, HATE the "human race is all one race. See, racism never existed" argument.

I mean.. you've seen dogs by your age, right?
Labradors - dalmatians - great danes - jack russells.

Those are all within the Canis Lupus species yet they all look completely different.

They have different outward and inward appearance and are prone to different genetic disorders and diseases and so on..

So if dogs can have different breeds. Humans can't have different breeds..?

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And finally.. WTF?! The study of history can't be applied to anything meaningful?!?!

Now I'm absolutely convinced you're either trollin' or just stupid as all fuck.

What kind of person thinks that learning the collective knowledge of ALL OF THE HUMANS THAT HAVE EVER BEEN ALIVE BEFORE YOU [about 100 billion] is meaningless?

You don't think knowing what all the other dumb humans did to get themselves and their societies wiped off the planet is useful?

Yeah i'm probably done with this. Unless you make some other awful intellectually compartmentalized rebuttal.

>> ^qualm:

"...The idea that your or an( interlectual , cultral , racail ,) group is anny more valid or deserving of basic human respect and rights than another."

Strawman. Correcting historical imbalances and injustices e.g., the US civil rights movement, is not unfairly preferential to privileged whites.


I dont understand what you mean.


My piont is that race inequality is just a component of a larger issue. and that although you can atack the indavidual components of the larger issue , to focus on one aspect iggnoring the others in th elong term is counter productive.

for example i have seen allot of things on Racialy inequality but far less on other issues such as socea ecanomic inequality.

I think all these issues have to be atacked simulary or discussed together rather than seperately as i belive them to all be of the same problem and all interalated.

@GenjiKilpatrick

You're not really bright enough for this conversation, but I'll make one attempt to break it down for you.

Black people are not one composite entity. If we see that there are black people and white people, and various levels of advantage, we don't say we should help the black people, we say we should help the disadvantaged. Any historical reasons for that disadvantage are absolutely irrelevant.

So you want to help the disadvantaged but ignore the understanding of how the disadvantage came into existence.. and how & why it's perpetuated?

Are you sure you're bright enough for your own arguments?

Explain.

>> ^gorillaman:


Any historical reasons for that disadvantage are absolutely irrelevant.

One attempt.

>> ^gorillaman:

One attempt.


Yeah sorta difficult to understand your position if you give me the silent treatment.

I'm not flamin' you up. I'd just actually like to know why you suppose that " Any historical reasons for that disadvantage are absolutely irrelevant."

Otherwise you've just strung a bunch of words together for the hell of it. I don't know tho.. maybe that's why you post here.

The thumbnail image for this video has been updated - thumbnail added by vaporlock.