Good job Switzerland. Next up, churches.

My take is that no democracy should allow the banning of specific religious symbols, banning all religiously themed towers(steeples,minarets,christmas trees > 5m), sure, only Muslim ones, not good.

We have fallen too far into the belief that democracy = right, which is plainly false. Sometimes, even often, democracy is wrong, that's why we have constitutional democracies, to protect minorities, and limit the destructive force of mob rule. It clearly didn't work here.

Hahahah I "love" that picture where it made them look like the spikey hide of some devilish demon. This is just absurd...most of the Gothic cathedrals are more ominous than a minaret. The violence of majority faction expressing itself in a government not bound by negative powers, but obligated to provide for the public "good".

I'm sorry but banning the suppression of women is not being intolerant. i don't give a fuck if it's part of your religion, it's wrong.

>> ^yourhydra:
I'm sorry but banning the suppression of women is not being intolerant. i don't give a fuck if it's part of your religion, it's wrong.


A minaret is a tower, I can only imagine you are talking about a Burqa which has nothing to do with a minaret...at all, like even a little. Thank you, please drive through.

>> ^dgandhi:
My take is that no democracy should allow the banning of specific religious symbols, banning all religiously themed towers(steeples,minarets,christmas trees > 5m), sure, only Muslim ones, not good.
We have fallen too far into the belief that democracy = right, which is plainly false. Sometimes, even often, democracy is wrong, that's why we have constitutional democracies, to protect minorities, and limit the destructive force of mob rule. It clearly didn't work here.


This is something I have conflicting opinions about. In principle, I think people should be able to live exactly as they please - racists shouldn't be forced to live with people they don't want to live with, for example. Unrestricted democracy is great, provided you also have complete freedom of association. Unfortunately the reality for most of us is that you're born into a society so large that you can't possibly expect to agree with everyone even on the most fundamental of principles. And you can't expect to fix that by moving elsewhere, either, since pretty much all societies are too large to allow for a large degree of individual autonomy. You don't get to choose the people you share a society with, which is, in my opinion, the real problem.

>> ^GeeSussFreeK:
>> ^yourhydra:
A minaret is a tower, I can only imagine you are talking about a Burqa which has nothing to do with a minaret...at all, like even a little. Thank you, please drive through.


What about them new drive-through minarets where they serve Halal fried chicken and diet Mecca-Cola?

This is ridiculous. Is there nothing in the Swiss or EU constitution that prohibits a law that targets a specific religion? How on Earth did they even write this law, anyway? "If the people inside a building believe Jesus was the son of God, they can build really tall towers, but if they believe Jesus was only a prophet, they can not". Does the building permit for towers have a checkbox for allowable religions? Does an architectural review board decide if a tower is too Islamic-influenced versus Christian-influenced? It's preposterous.

>> ^dgandhi:
My take is that no democracy should allow the banning of specific religious symbols, banning all religiously themed towers(steeples,minarets,christmas trees > 5m), sure, only Muslim ones, not good.
We have fallen too far into the belief that democracy = right, which is plainly false. Sometimes, even often, democracy is wrong, that's why we have constitutional democracies, to protect minorities, and limit the destructive force of mob rule. It clearly didn't work here.


Couldn't have said it better.

On the one hand, we all talk about how stupid people in the world are...

On the other hand, we place so much faith in "the people."

fuck'em and the belifs they rode in on.

At around 1:20 I had the need to say " aha ! tables are turned now fucker "

>> ^BoneRemake:
fuck'em and the belifs they rode in on.
At around 1:20 I had the need to say " aha ! tables are turned now fucker "


Ahhh, the spirit of freedom and liberty is with this one. Are you perhaps familiar with the phrase "I don't share your beliefs but I will fight to the death to defend them"...I would guess not.

>> ^GeeSussFreeK:

Ahhh, the spirit of freedom and liberty is with this one. Are you perhaps familiar with the phrase "I don't share your beliefs but I will fight to the death to defend them"...I would guess not.


Ahhh...as long as their beliefs aren't the murder of the non-beleivers.

Singling out one religion is just wrong. I would expect a law like this would pass in America, but Switzerland. How disappointing.

>> ^eric3579:
Singling out one religion is just wrong. I would expect a law like this would pass in America, but Switzerland. How disappointing.


Well, we might promote one over the other at times, which isn't good mind you. But we don't stop people from doing most anything with their faith on the whole, which to me is a far worse thing that could happen.

Minarets do not murder people...next straw man please.

I have to say though, looking at this from an objective journalistic point of view, ignoring the topic for a moment: this was an incredibly snarky piece of one-sided reporting, "this tree is ok, look how clever I am, tee hee!".


The only thing that sort of surprises me is how surprised everyone is. Do you not know much about CH?

Like the fact its websites' domain is *.ch?

This country that makes you wait at least 10 years before you can get citizenship - this country is super old school. *controversy? Heck yeah.

It's one of the most hyper-militarized states in the world, you do realize, right?

And the country - at least in some parts - that expects women to stay home and raise kids - and has a crazy long lunch break that makes it difficult to do otherwise.

>> ^rychan:
This is ridiculous. Is there nothing in the Swiss or EU constitution that prohibits a law that targets a specific religion? How on Earth did they even write this law, anyway? "If the people inside a building believe Jesus was the son of God, they can build really tall towers, but if they believe Jesus was only a prophet, they can not". Does the building permit for towers have a checkbox for allowable religions? Does an architectural review board decide if a tower is too Islamic-influenced versus Christian-influenced? It's preposterous.


Actually Switzerland is not part of the EU, and there's another reason for you.

BTW, title's misleading, there are already apparently 4 towers which stay - it's just preventing new ones.

The Swiss are the most zoning-law-trigger-happy people in the world, no doubt.

Adding video to channels (Controversy) - requested by Krupo.

I don't really know much about the swiss really, so the face value of the story was the only thing that grabbed me. I don't know their history on such things. Grandfathering the buildings shouldn't come as a shock, but it is still a ban. To not be able to make more seems so absurd I am having a hard time thinking it's true. Any people over on the other side of the pond like to weigh in on this?

I am a Swiss citizen living in Switzerland, and while I voted against this ridiculous ban, I think I can understand why it passed (after the initial shock of course... I had put more stock in Swiss citizens than this).

All the polls predicted that the ban would be massively rejected and yet it passed; it seems to be an awkward attempt by the people to express their distrust of islam and their fear of its rapid progression in Europe, something that is quite impossible to do in public or in the media without being belittled as a “xenophobe” and “islamophobe” (the latter of which should not be considered insulting). The government, largely left-wing, continually undermine or disregard certain real problems regarding immigration/integration of muslims – most of which come from Turkey and ex-Yugoslavia – in order to retain their politically correct image, even when it is at the expense of the people. One example: the fact that individuals of the above-mentioned population, along with African immigrants, are responsible for over 70% of all criminality in Switzerland, was systematically downplayed and the statistics criticised by the media and the government left, without proposing any constructive solutions. One mustn’t forget that one of the UDC’s main beefs is with immigration, not religion (not that that makes them any better, mind).

@rychan: the ban, like every law project, had to pass the parliament first, where they decide if it is constitutional or not. This is where the UDC, the far right party, sneakily got away with what is in effect a straw-man ban: a mosque is still a mosque without a minaret, and banning them cannot be considered against religious freedom because they can still worship in a minaret-free mosque.

The UDC’s argument was that the minaret, whose purpose is to call for prayer 5 times a day (not allowed in CH), is also a symbol of conquest. Dumb, I know, but it fed into the fears of a country already fed up of being toyed with (Khadafi, the EU, the US and the “secret bancaire”, etc.) and represented by a bunch of pussies who will bow and scrape< /a> to the worst of tyrants just to be liked.

Of course, there is the “religious war” side to it as well, even if all the religious authorities here, christian and other, vehemently rejected the ban, possibly fearing that such legislation could eventually turn on them.

The real test will come when the people vote on an initiative by the “jeunnesse socialiste” which aims at secularising the state. They wish to completely separate church and state, removing catechism, theology and crucifixes from public schools, replacing religious education lessons (which should only be a part of history class) with ethics/civism, cease the funding of “state” churches (protestant or catholic depending on the canton) with tax-payer money, etc.

Somehow, I am not so optimist as to how this will fare... Ignorance is a tough opponent.


@Krupo: your knowledge of CH seems a tad outdated. Not only does CH have one of the smallest and most under-financed armies of western Europe, but it is planning on making it even smaller. As for the sexism, it is the same small group of idiots who proposed the minaret-ban who want traditional christian families with mommy at home and daddy at work, but they're the only ones. An educational reform is working on changing the long lunch break, but most kids eat at school already because, well, mommy's at work too.

As for old-school... how many countries have legalised assisted suicide?

I've said something similar in the lounge, and I will repeat it here. There is a war going on whether people know it or not. The sides are reason and willful ignorance. It's time that those on the side of reason stand up and say enough is enough.

Islam, in particular, is both oppressive and viral. It imposes itself into many western secularized countries, while keeping a stranglehold on it's "own" countries. As we've seen in another video, in the Muslim countries no other religious practices are allowed either, so why should we allow them free access to our own society? By trying to "be better" than them, we are effectively propagating its viral content by not clearing it out.

Religion is a cancer and the more we can remove the better. Islam is only the front-runner right now, Christianity is the same way, but more ingrained over here anyway. Luckily, if Islam keeps being stoic in its dogma, it will not survive. Christianity has learned this lesson and split up into its many, many forms of pseudo-christianity, which pick and choose which stuff it believes in and not. In the western countries there are Muslims doing this too (certainly in Muslim countries too, no doubt), but at its heart it is still very locked in "the dark ages", and as long as it is, I would rather we quell it before it gains critical mass. This was a first step.

Ordnung muss sein! *slams table*
(I can't help but Godwin myself on this.)

>> ^eric3579:
Singling out one religion is just wrong. I would expect a law like this would pass in America, but Switzerland. How disappointing.


gotta start somewhere...

(I love how the ads in the margin are for "The International Muslim Matrimonials Site")

Atheists and agnostics don't have the market corned on reason gwiz. The people that created this country both had great faith and great intelligence. Ignorance is a human condition and isn't exclusive to religiosity. I think it is that exact sentiment you have that TURN things into a war and not just a disagreement. Non-religious people are not my enemy! We shouldn't be yours!