The Scottish need a good hard re-conquering, it wasn't done properly the first time round and that's why this nonsense idea of independence still holds sway. Abolish devolution, execute troublemakers, burn down their farcical parliament, incorporate all Scottish institutions with their English and Welsh counterparts, call the whole place Britain and in 100 years everyone's better off and there's no hard feelings. That's how it works; that's how Britain's constituent countries were formed, and everybody but certain whiney, mindless Scots is happy with the result. Where's the East Anglian Liberation Front? The Mercian Independence Movement? They don't exist, because we all realise that would be FUCKING STUPID.

Shut up gorillaman you sasenach imperialist English morris dancing bowler hat wearing bufty bas!

To the most Holy Father and Lord in Christ, the Lord John, by divine providence Supreme Pontiff of the Holy Roman and Universal Church, his humble and devout sons Duncan, Earl of Fife, Thomas Randolph, Earl of Moray, Lord of Man and of Annandale, Patrick Dunbar, Earl of March, Malise, Earl of Strathearn, Malcolm, Earl of Lennox, William, Earl of Ross, Magnus, Earl of Caithness and Orkney, and William, Earl of Sutherland; Walter, Steward of Scotland, William Soules, Butler of Scotland, James, Lord of Douglas, Roger Mowbray, David, Lord of Brechin, David Graham, Ingram Umfraville, John Menteith, guardian of the earldom of Menteith, Alexander Fraser, Gilbert Hay, Constable of Scotland, Robert Keith, Marischal of Scotland, Henry St Clair, John Graham, David Lindsay, William Oliphant, Patrick Graham, John Fenton, William Abernethy, David Wemyss, William Mushet, Fergus of Ardrossan, Eustace Maxwell, William Ramsay, William Mowat, Alan Murray, Donald Campbell, John Cameron, Reginald Cheyne, Alexander Seton, Andrew Leslie, and Alexander Straiton, and the other barons and freeholders and the whole community of the realm of Scotland send all manner of filial reverence, with devout kisses of his blessed feet.
Most Holy Father and Lord, we know and from the chronicles and books of the ancients we find that among other famous nations our own, the Scots, has been graced with widespread renown. They journeyed from Greater Scythia by way of the Tyrrhenian Sea and the Pillars of Hercules, and dwelt for a long course of time in Spain among the most savage tribes, but nowhere could they be subdued by any race, however barbarous. Thence they came, twelve hundred years after the people of Israel crossed the Red Sea, to their home in the west where they still live today. The Britons they first drove out, the Picts they utterly destroyed, and, even though very often assailed by the Norwegians, the Danes and the English, they took possession of that home with many victories and untold efforts; and, as the historians of old time bear witness, they have held it free of all bondage ever since. In their kingdom there have reigned one hundred and thirteen kings of their own royal stock, the line unbroken a single foreigner.

The high qualities and deserts of these people, were they not otherwise manifest, gain glory enough from this: that the King of kings and Lord of lords, our Lord Jesus Christ, after His Passion and Resurrection, called them, even though settled in the uttermost parts of the earth, almost the first to His most holy faith. Nor would He have them confirmed in that faith by merely anyone but by the first of His Apostles -- by calling, though second or third in rank -- the most gentle Saint Andrew, the Blessed Peter's brother, and desired him to keep them under his protection as their patron forever.

The Most Holy Fathers your predecessors gave careful heed to these things and bestowed many favours and numerous privileges on this same kingdom and people, as being the special charge of the Blessed Peter's brother. Thus our nation under their protection did indeed live in freedom and peace up to the time when that mighty prince the King of the English, Edward, the father of the one who reigns today, when our kingdom had no head and our people harboured no malice or treachery and were then unused to wars or invasions, came in the guise of a friend and ally to harass them as an enemy. The deeds of cruelty, massacre, violence, pillage, arson, imprisoning prelates, burning down monasteries, robbing and killing monks and nuns, and yet other outrages without number which he committed against our people, sparing neither age nor sex, religion nor rank, no one could describe nor fully imagine unless he had seen them with his own eyes.

But from these countless evils we have been set free, by the help of Him Who though He afflicts yet heals and restores, by our most tireless Prince, King and Lord, the Lord Robert. He, that his people and his heritage might be delivered out of the hands of our enemies, met toil and fatigue, hunger and peril, like another Macabaeus or Joshua and bore them cheerfully. Him, too, divine providence, his right of succession according to or laws and customs which we shall maintain to the death, and the due consent and assent of us all have made our Prince and King. To him, as to the man by whom salvation has been wrought unto our people, we are bound both by law and by his merits that our freedom may be still maintained, and by him, come what may, we mean to stand.

Yet if he should give up what he has begun, and agree to make us or our kingdom subject to the King of England or the English, we should exert ourselves at once to drive him out as our enemy and a subverter of his own rights and ours, and make some other man who was well able to defend us our King; for, AS LONG AS BUT A HUNDRED OF US REMAIN ALIVE, NEVER WILL WE ON ANY CONDITIONS BE BROUGHT UNDER ENGLISH RULE. IT IS IN TRUTH NOT FOR GLORY, NOR RICHES, NOR HONOURS THAT WE ARE FIGHTING, BUT FOR FREEDOM -- FOR THAT ALONE, WHICH NO HONEST MAN GIVES UP BUT WITH LIFE ITSELF.

Therefore it is, Reverend Father and Lord, that we beseech your Holiness with our most earnest prayers and suppliant hearts, inasmuch as you will in your sincerity and goodness consider all this, that, since with Him Whose Vice-Regent on earth you are there is neither weighing nor distinction of Jew and Greek, Scotsman or Englishman, you will look with the eyes of a father on the troubles and privation brought by the English upon us and upon the Church of God. May it please you to admonish and exhort the King of the English, who ought to be satisfied with what belongs to him since England used once to be enough for seven kings or more, to leave us Scots in peace, who live in this poor little Scotland, beyond which there is no dwelling-place at all, and covet nothing but our own. We are sincerely willing to do anything for him, having regard to our condition, that we can, to win peace for ourselves.

This truly concerns you, Holy Father, since you see the savagery of the heathen raging against the Christians, as the sins of Christians have indeed deserved, and the frontiers of Christendom being pressed inward every day; and how much it will tarnish your Holiness's memory if (which God forbid) the Church suffers eclipse or scandal in any branch of it during your time, you must perceive. Then rouse the Christian princes who for false reasons pretend that they cannot go to help of the Holy Land because of wars they have on hand with their neighbours. The real reason that prevents them is that in making war on their smaller neighbours they find quicker profit and weaker resistance. But how cheerfully our Lord the King and we too would go there if the King of the English would leave us in peace, He from Whom nothing is hidden well knows; and we profess and declare it to you as the Vicar of Christ and to all Christendom.

But if your Holiness puts too much faith in the tales the English tell and will not give sincere belief to all this, nor refrain from favouring them to our prejudice, then the slaughter of bodies, the perdition of souls, and all the other misfortunes that will follow, inflicted by them on us and by us on them, will, we believe, be surely laid by the Most High to your charge.

To conclude, we are and shall ever be, as far as duty calls us, ready to do your will in all things, as obedient sons to you as His Vicar; and to Him as the Supreme King and Judge we commit the maintenance of our cause, csating our cares upon Him and firmly trusting that He will inspire us with courage and bring our enemies to nought.

May the Most High preserve you to his Holy Church in holiness and health and grant you length of days.

Given at the monastery of Arbroath in Scotland on the sixth day of the month of April in the year of grace thirteen hundred and twenty and the fifteenth year of the reign of our King aforesaid.

Well first of all, I'm not English - I'm British, and so are you. Scotland, which now exists only in the past and the overactive imaginations of people who've watched Braveheart too many times, has been British for several hundred years and now is the time to grow up and accept it.

There's a reason why countries merge and grow, and that is: they're better off that way; be grateful.

Listen you stupid ignorant oil-stealing Highland-clearing ENGLISH TIT:

Scotland has always been a separate country despite the Acts of Union - it's cultures, traditions and languages are different and its peoples have always identified themselves as Scottish first.

"There's a reason why countries merge and grow"

Yeah - it's called imperialism. It's when one country uses its military/economic strength to force another country to submit to its rule. It's what Britain did to Ireland, what China did to Tibet and what Israel is doing in Palestine.

"be grateful"

How about you English be grateful for over thirty years of Scottish North Sea oil which has been the backbone of the British economy. If Scotland had become independent in the 1970s it would have been the richest per-capita country in Europe. Unfortunately the English government did its best to suppress the Independance movement and to disguise the potential impact of oil wealth of an independent country.

Culture, language and tradition are all meaningless. Nobody's stolen anything from anybody because WE'RE BOTH BRITISH.

This island isn't big enough to host a bunch of different nations; the only sensible course of action was unification, that's what happened, get over it.

"Culture, language and tradition are all meaningless."

What a load of shite! Culture, language and traditions are three of the most important ingredients of personal identity. The reason we don't have organisations like the East Anglia Liberation Front is because the culture, langues and traditions of East Anglia that have survived the course of history are not distinct enough to engender a distinct identity separate from the rest of England. However, the culture, languages and traditions of Scotland have survived and have helped to engender a distinct Scottish identity (or Scottish identities).

"WE'RE BOTH BRITISH"

But maybe for not much longer - and for some reason that seems to really get to you...

All national culture should be eradicated; tradition is just a word for "doing stupid things for no reason", and language will inevitably homogenise over time, which is a good thing. The despicable movements in Wales and Scotland to resurrect their old, dead, worthless languages appals me. Your idea of personal identity is my idea of nationalism, an invariably destructive force leading to, oh yes, imperialism.

Nations and governments exist purely to improve the lives of their citizens by accomplishing things they cannot individually or in smaller groups. Britain united is more efficient to that end than England, Scotland and Wales divided. End of. Everything else, like "Ooooh Scotland, we just wanna be freeeeeee, won't you let us be freeeeeeeee" is bullshit.

"All national culture should be eradicated"

What a heap of shit - but then I expect nothing less from you! There is nothing wrong with national cultures or national identities - it is when one group of people try and force a homogenous meaningless identity on everyone that things become problematic.

"The despicable movements in Wales and Scotland to resurrect their old, dead, worthless languages appals me"

You pretend to be anti-nationalism but then reveal yourself to be a linguistic imperialist - everyone should speak English or else!

O flower of Scotland
When will we see your like again
That fought and died for
Your wee bit hill and glen
And stood against him
Proud Edward's army
And sent him homeward
Tae think again

The hills are bare now
And autumn leaves lie thick and still
O'er land that is lost now
Which those so dearly held
And stood against him
Proud Edward's army
And sent him homeward
Tae think again

Those days are passed now
And in the past they must remain
But we can still rise now
And be the nation again
That stood against him
Proud Edward's army
And sent him homeward
Tae think again


Thalla 's cagainn bruis Toll-toine - Deoghail am fallus bhàrr duine mharbh siadha tiadhan!!!

You don't have to imbue every little thing with imagined symbolism for it to have meaning.

"You pretend to be anti-nationalism but then reveal yourself to be a linguistic imperialist - everyone should speak English or else!"

That's nonsense, even you must see that. Everyone in Britain already speaks one language, English. What kind of evil filth would try to change that? Surely being able to talk to each other is a good thing? If we all spoke Gaelic or Welsh or Mandarin (and so did America and Australia) that would be just as good.

Ahhhhh the old Empire is crumbling ..pip , pip old chap. Stiff upper lip and all that. Your words speak volumes Gorillaman about the arrogant London centric view of like it or lump it.

Thankfully the Scottish people have their own ideas,passions and cultures and have a choice/vote over their own future.

*hands Gorillaman a haggis and headbutts him*

"Everyone in Britain already speaks one language, English"

No they don't!!! 600,000 plus people in Wales speak Welsh as a first language and almost 60,000 people speak Scots Gaelic as a first language. There are also close to two million Irish Gaelic speakers in greater Ireland. And Scots is widely used throughout Scotland in addition to English. (Add to this an increasing immigrant population who speak little/no English and you get a more accurate linguistic map.)

You're probably one of those people who goes abroad and gets pissed off when people don't speak English!

Tha mi a' sgaoil am leathar a'faighean ràinig thu a bhàrr!!!

As their first language is not the same thing as as their only language. The redundant Welsh language was dying a natural and wonderful death until morons decided, for reasons of national identity and culture of course, to waste their children's education teaching them a totally useless language in addition to the lingua franca, English. Making it more difficult for people to communicate just because it inexplicably makes you feel better about your 'culture' is stupid. It's just plain dumb.

It's only more difficult to communicate because lazy English-speakers like you don't take the effort to learn other languages but then expect everyone else to be able to speak your bloody language.

"a totally useless language"

See it's clear from your comments that you only speak one language and that you've never taken the time or effort to learn another. No language is useless. Different languages represent different ways of thinking and seeing the world. The problem with idiots like you is that you don't realise that not every truth can be expressed in one language. There are some concepts and ideas that simply don't translate into other languages.

And none of this changes the basic message of this video - "IT'S TIME' - independence is coming soon, whether in this election or the next, and although it scares you there is nothing that you can do about it!!!

The basic message of the video is 'vote for us'; it's a party political. Incidentally that's why I don't think it's appropriate for the sift, and that's why I downvoted. As for my fear of Scottish independence, I'm simply concerned that my country's influence and prosperity will be damaged by the childish fantasizing of a minority of its population.

And everything you said about language is absurd.

You keep missing the point:

The Acts of Union did not create one super country called Britain. Scotland never lost its status as a seperate country and its people never lost their identity. Article 1(2) of the UN Charter set out the important aim: "To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples." Similarly Article 1 in both the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR) and the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (ICESCR) recognise the rights of all peoples to self-determination - including the Scots! The Scottish people have a right to choose independence and self-rule, either in this election or a future referendum. You would like to dismiss the SNP as a minority party - but they could soon hold a majority in Scotland - which is not your country!

"And everything you said about language is absurd. "

Right back at you!!!!

"I'm simply concerned that my country's influence and prosperity will be damaged"

I'm sure the Scots would appreciate your sentiment - that without the Scots Britain will crumble and decline!!!

"Scotland never lost its status as a seperate country and its people never lost their identity."

That's exactly what I meant when I said you hadn't been properly conquered in the first place. Scottish culture needs to be stamped out so we can all prosper from unity; your divisive ideology can only harm both 'Scotland' and the rest of Britain.

Of course this group or that group can choose to govern themselves however they like, but that's not actually what you're proposing. At this point Britain is indivisible; there are many people up there that aren't labouring under your particular delusion, but they'll suffer from the effects of its attempted realisation along with the rest of you. Is that fair? I suppose you could split the land and become the new Israel, would you be comfortable with that? If you all want to go and live on the moon or wherever that's fine, but it's not acceptable to stay where you are and institute this catastrophe.

Your creed are forever trying to paint themselves as an oppressed people struggling to be free, instead of the equal members of a mutually beneficial partnership that you actually are.

There are no parallels between the democratic polices of the SNP and the violence, terrorism and imperialism which led to the foundation of Israel!!!

"Scottish culture needs to be stamped out so we can all prosper from unity"

Again what I expect from you Gorillaman - wipe out Scottish culture, wipe out all Muslims and wipe out anyone who doesn't speak English or agree with your simplistic and ignorant ramblings. You're full of shit - and you know it!

"At this point Britain is indivisible"

Wrong - the Labour premiership has deeply divided this country. And this has very little to do with oppression. The main motivating factor behind the growing support for independence is moral revulsion at the domestic and international policies of the Labour party - and despair at the possibility of an English Conservative alternative. Independence would give Scotland an independent international voice. Furthermore, appropriate foreign investment and EU funds will improve the economic situation of some of Britain's poorest people.

gwaan, admirable efforts there but something tells me gorillaman isn't one to change his opinion.

my girlfriend of 5yrs is scottish and whilst being english i spent most of my school life in wales.
within scotland there is an immense amount of national pride and while there's absolutely nothing
wrong with that it borders on offensive at times.

e.g. i've heard countless scots berate the english for the events you've been discussing, to the point
where i've felt uncomfortable. it's in the past. i'm not condoning anything but no-one's gonna get
anywhere if we keep harping on about things that happened when we weren't even born (that goes for any
situation, not just this one).
also, most scots will also support pretty much anything if it goes against something the english believe
in or support. anywhere else and that kind of group behaviour would be frowned upon. when she was about
to leave school for uni my now girlfriend and all her schoolmates made a pact to never have a relationship
with an english person because we're 'scum' (what can i say, i tamed the beast). what have our generation
done to deserve that kind of pre-concieved judgement?

having said all that, i do love the scots. it's just one thing that rubs me the wrong way.

and i do think they should have their independence if that's their wish, hopefully it would go some
way to slowly eradicating most of the resentment that clearly still exists. also, they already have
their own legal system and parliament so i don't really see the point of them being in limbo with regards to
full independence. with regards to language, if you want to speak it, speak it. i think every child
should have at least the option to speak/learn their country's language from the moment they start
school.

I think there's quite a strong parallel, you want to set up a new country where it no longer belongs, based only on extinct historical claims and illusory cultural ties. Look around you, now go south of the so-called-border and look around there. Looks the same doesn't it? That's because it's the same bloody country. Modern Scottish and British culture are already practically identical, and are becoming more so every day; let them.

At least we agree on the reason for the SNP's recent gains - the present government are monsters, their main opposition are worthless and that's given the fringe nutjobs a chance to elbow in and grab some votes from people too stupid to know better. A lot of the policies in this video make sense, not the main one of course; if the SNP would drop the name, grow up and behave like a real political party instead of a one-issue, isolationist, nationalist farce they would probably get a few votes down here as well.

^ National pride is inherently offensive. And Scotland's 'own' language is English, given that the vast, overwhelming majority of its population speak it as a first language.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

This is a quality thread- love it.

"it borders on offensive at times"

I accept that some Scots harbour a rather nasty deep-seated resentment of all Englishmen - and I'm against this. But there are historical reasons for the existence of this widespread resentment, and furthermore you only have to listen to the moronic prejudiced ramblings of gorillaman - who won't even acknowledge that Scotland is a seperate country with its own culture, traditions and languages - to realise that plenty of Englishmen still hold equally prejudiced and distasteful views about the Scots.

"one-issue, isolationist"

Firstly, the SNP are not a one issue party. While in the past some of them could have been accused of being one issue politicians, the party has grown into a fully fledged party with a comprehensive set of policies. Secondly, the SNP advocate independence, not isolationism - An independent Scotland would be a member of the EU and would work closely with Britain.

A quick update on this story:

It's time! A few minutes ago Labour conceded defeat to the SNP!!!!!

From the BBC website:

"The SNP won 47, Labour came in second with 46; the Conservatives have 17; the Liberal Democrats secured 16; and others came in with three.

Earlier on Friday, SNP leader Alex Salmond said that the Labour Party had lost the "moral authority to govern Scotland".

And I thought it was bad in Quebec.

I personally don't know about these things, but speaking from a Canadian perspective, these schemes tend to always be politically motivated to create separation between the provinces and not any preservation of culture or such. Canada has adopted French as a second language because of one province that is Francophone, as a sign of respect. Yet still there is consistent calls for separation from the rest of Canada while maintaining the strong federal subsidies to the province as well as the currency.

That's just unrealistic and greedy.

"maintaining the strong federal subsidies"

The English always winge that Scotland is a huge drain on the welfare state. The Scots retort that for over thirty years the English economy has been supported by North Sea Oil which should belong to Scotland. Whatever side you take in this argument the fact is that an independent Scotland will have to introduce significant economic reforms if it is to flourish. A major part of this will be reducing the size of the welfare state and the culture of benefit dependency in certain areas of Scotland. Unfortunately there is a strong corrollation between benefit dependency and voting for Labour. The SNP will have a hard job convincing these voters that they may have to give up their benefits in the short term in order to ensure long term economic success. Any economic change will have major social and political repercussions - and Labour will exploit this while they are in opposition. The ironic thing is that the the same politicians who complain that Scotland is a drain on the welfare state will attempt to win votes and undermine the independence movement by promising to maintain benefits and subsidies.

Alex Salmond just said: "Scotland has changed for good and forever. There may be Labour governments and first ministers in decades still to come, but never again will the Labour Party think it has a divine right to government."

While I support movements that raise cultural awareness and give identity and control back to the people I am often left weary when they talk of grand schemes only to go back on their word and basically carry out whatever is a beneficial policy for them.

My question would be to what end is this all happening? If this is really legitimate then T'okay, but if this becomes a strained locked political thing between London and Scotland that only makes this more problematic and not less.

"If this is really legitimate then T'okay, but if this becomes a strained locked political thing between London and Scotland that only makes this more problematic and not less."

I agree. If the SNP simply try and make things as difficult as possible for Labour then this will only lead to problems. I also think that it would undermine the SNP's support in Scotland - and the SNP are well aware of this.

In order to have a governing majority in the Scottish parliament the SNP will have to form a coalition with another party - probably the Liberal Democrats. Any party that enters into such a coalition will insist that the SNP concentrate on improving things in Scotland - not making trouble to ensure independence.

However, what is certain is that if the SNP form a majority coalition, with Alex Salmond as the first minister, this could make life very difficult for prime minister Brown and the Labour Party - which I'm all in favour of! Brown represents a Scottish constituency which would become part of an independent Scotland. Furthermore, without the Scottish vote the Labour party cannot win in England.

Hopefully, this situation will be beneficial for Britain and Scotland. The Labour party will have to devolve more powers to the Scottish parliament and resolve the West Lothian question - the fact the Scottish MP's vote on domestic issues that only affect England, but English MP's cannot vote on issues that affect Scotland (It should not be forgotten that the Conservative party won a decisive victory in last nights elections and they will want this issue solved as well). It may also mean that the Labour party has to temper its domestic and foreign policies in order to win back votes from the SNP (and the Conservatives and Plaid Cymru).

*dead

This published video has been declared non-functional; embed code must be fixed within 2 days or it will be sent to the dead pool - declared dead by gorgonheap.

oxdottir has fixed this video's dead embed code - no star awarded because oxdottir was awarded too recently.