Very well stated! Money is not speech. Otherwise, bribery is an exercise of free speech.

Our federal republic based on democratic principles has become a pay-to-play aristocracy. Free markets only properly function with some regulations, and the same goes for democracy's marketplace of ideas. If you want democracy, you have to oppose the argument that the idea from the person with more capital is inherently better than the idea from anyone else.

January 22, 2010
Public Agrees With Court: Campaign Money Is "Free Speech"

I reject your sanitized version of protestors, Reich. Drug use, rapes, murders and random deaths are in every camp, all the attendant chaos one would expect when socialists, anarchists, code pink commies and feed-the-flames libmedia descend anywhere. These protestors are not even 1% of the 99%.

Completely agree with the message, it's impossible to compete with the money being thrown at politicians by corporations - and that's the only way real changes are happening at the moment. The war has begun and it wasn't started by the people, but the people will need to end it if they want their country (and our world) back.

Two years ago. I wonder what they are saying now.


>> ^quantumushroom:

January 22, 2010
Public Agrees With Court: Campaign Money Is "Free Speech"

*quality *talk. The US (and the rest of the "western" world as well) is moving dangerously away from democracy and straight for plutocracy.

Boosting this quality contribution up in the Hot Listing - declared quality by hpqp.

*promote this stuffs dammit!

Promoting this video back to the front page; last published Wednesday, November 23rd, 2011 3:31pm PST - promote requested by lurgee.

Let me get this straight. MoveOn.org, a lobby group for the Wall Street financed Obama administration that is funded by Wall Street billionaire and financial criminal George Soros, has a problem with political spending? That's rich, Ha.

Oh and the "tax the rich" plan MoveOn and other groups are trying to push are widely supported by Wall Street oligarchs. Why is that? Hmmm....

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903918104576504650932556900.html
"Roughly 90% of the tax filers who would pay more under Mr. Obama’s plan aren’t millionaires, and 99.99% aren’t billionaires."
It is the middle class – not Warren Buffett or Wall Street corporations – who will be most hurt by the very policies the "tax the rich" crowd are calling for.

You are a silly silly SILLY man. I was in the middle of writing exactly why you are a silly silly SILLY man and unfortunately lost the whole thing.

I don't have the energy to start over. But I do want to repeat the main argument -- I know that it is a waste of time to show you exactly how you are a silly silly SILLY man, uninformed, misguided, and trapped by some weird anti-tax obsession that beggars all logic of what it means to live in a wealthy society that provides services and protection for its people.

Silly silly SILLY man. That is my main point.

PS: I do taxes for a living. I have done more than one tax return for "middle class" folks who had up to $70,000 in taxable income who paid ZERO TAX. I am perfectly fine with those folks paying more taxes. Doesn't bother me a bit.



>> ^marbles:

Let me get this straight. MoveOn.org, a lobby group for the Wall Street financed Obama administration, that is funded by Wall Street billionaire and financial criminal George Soros, has a problem with political spending? That's rich, Ha.
Oh and the "tax the rich" plan MoveOn and other groups are trying to push are widely supported by Wall Street oligarchs. Why is that? Hmmm....
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903918104576504650
932556900.html
"Roughly 90% of the tax filers who would pay more under Mr. Obama’s plan aren’t millionaires, and 99.99% aren’t billionaires."
It is the middle class – not Warren Buffett or Wall Street corporations – who will be most hurt by the very policies the "tax the rich" crowd are calling for.

>> ^bareboards2:

You are a silly silly SILLY man. I was in the middle of writing exactly why you are a silly silly SILLY man and unfortunately lost the whole thing.
I don't have the energy to start over. But I do want to repeat the main argument -- I know that it is a waste of time to show you exactly how you are a silly silly SILLY man, uninformed, misguided, and trapped by some weird anti-tax obsession that beggars all logic of what it means to live in a wealthy society that provides services and protection for its people.
Silly silly SILLY man. That is my main point.
PS: I do taxes for a living. I have done more than one tax return for "middle class" folks who had up to $70,000 in taxable income who paid ZERO TAX. I am perfectly fine with those folks paying more taxes. Doesn't bother me a bit.

Shouldn't you be mocking those exercising their first amendment rights?

http://videosift.com/video/Jefferson-Memorial-Dancing-on-June-4-2011
silly silly SILLY woman.

Oh, so you admit that the "tax the rich" plan has no intent on actually taxing the rich? Nice.

Yep. Silly. Simplistic, myopic, intentionally misguided, unable to detect nuance, silly silly SILLY man.


>> ^marbles:

>> ^bareboards2:
You are a silly silly SILLY man. I was in the middle of writing exactly why you are a silly silly SILLY man and unfortunately lost the whole thing.
I don't have the energy to start over. But I do want to repeat the main argument -- I know that it is a waste of time to show you exactly how you are a silly silly SILLY man, uninformed, misguided, and trapped by some weird anti-tax obsession that beggars all logic of what it means to live in a wealthy society that provides services and protection for its people.
Silly silly SILLY man. That is my main point.
PS: I do taxes for a living. I have done more than one tax return for "middle class" folks who had up to $70,000 in taxable income who paid ZERO TAX. I am perfectly fine with those folks paying more taxes. Doesn't bother me a bit.

Shouldn't you be mocking those exercising their first amendment rights?
http://videosift.com/video/Jefferson-Memorial-Dancing-on-June-4-2011 silly silly SILLY woman.
Oh, so you admit that the "tax the rich" plan has no intent on actually taxing the rich? Nice.

>> ^bareboards2:

Yep. Silly. Simplistic, myopic, intentionally misguided, unable to detect nuance, silly silly SILLY man.


The pot dares to call the kettle black? You're hilarious.

>> ^quantumushroom:

Drug use, rapes, murders and random deaths are in every camp, all the attendant chaos one would expect when socialists, anarchists, code pink commies and feed-the-flames libmedia descend anywhere. These protestors are not even 1% of the 99%.


Citation needed, motherfucker.

All too easy, Slapnuts.


Now deny it cause the stats don't come from SocialistWorker.org



>> ^ChaosEngine:

>> ^quantumushroom:
Drug use, rapes, murders and random deaths are in every camp, all the attendant chaos one would expect when socialists, anarchists, code pink commies and feed-the-flames libmedia descend anywhere. These protestors are not even 1% of the 99%.

Citation needed, motherfucker.

@bareboards

I have done more than one tax return for "middle class" folks who had up to $70,000 in taxable income who paid ZERO TAX. I am perfectly fine with those folks paying more taxes. Doesn't bother me a bit.

Why should it bother you? According to the Obamarx Regime, it only wants to tax "millionaires and billionaires". Except to them, anyone not on welfare is a billionaire.

Man, I gotta tell you quantum, life must be hard with you spending your days rolled up in a ball of seething hatred.

I totally agree that the OWS movement was dealing with an undesirable element within their ranks but I don't think that we should be tainting the intent of the entire thing because of it. Just as I feel that it is wrong to persecute everyone who wears an expensive suit as being a heartless corporate swindler. If you remember the Tea Party had their own undesirables showing off swastikas and spouting racial and religious hatreds.

One thing that I would like to point out about the comparison between the Tea Party rallys and the OWS protests is that on one side they were organized and supported financially by corporate and political interests to the extent of even being bussed in to the locations and the other is a barely held together movement with no obvious leaders or focal point with little support or backing from anyone but a few wealthy sympathizers.

I dislike all protests and civil unrest in general but I can see how some people might feel it necessary. Sadly, in the end it always seems to come down to a bunch of people just like quantumushroom on both sides of the argument hating each other, neither side willing to walk a mile in the other man's shoes.



>> ^quantumushroom:

All too easy, Slapnuts.

Now deny it cause the stats don't come from SocialistWorker.org

>> ^ChaosEngine:
>> ^quantumushroom:
Drug use, rapes, murders and random deaths are in every camp, all the attendant chaos one would expect when socialists, anarchists, code pink commies and feed-the-flames libmedia descend anywhere. These protestors are not even 1% of the 99%.

Citation needed, motherfucker.

>> ^quantumushroom:
Drug use, rapes, murders and random deaths are in every camp...


Murders: 2
Rapes: 10
Random Deaths? (well, it lists suicides): 1
Drug use? (seriously, from a guy who smokes as much weed as you do?)

Out of 20,000 occupiers in 2,400 cities...

>> ^quantumushroom:

All too easy, Slapnuts.

Now deny it cause the stats don't come from SocialistWorker.org

>> ^ChaosEngine:
>> ^quantumushroom:
Drug use, rapes, murders and random deaths are in every camp, all the attendant chaos one would expect when socialists, anarchists, code pink commies and feed-the-flames libmedia descend anywhere. These protestors are not even 1% of the 99%.

Citation needed, motherfucker.



Idiots put all their links in an image, so you can't click on them and read the reports for yourself... hmm, I wonder why?? Oh, it's because there were no reported murders in the links! And no reported rapes in the links! Lesser events? Yes, a few. Completely unrelated events? Why, yes, several!

Here, for your reading pleasure, are all the links the right-wing crypto-fascist zombie airheads can come up with to marginalize the "dirty hippies" on the lawn:

Links originally from Pundit Press:

From Oregon Live: Primarily about a man who showed up at Occupy Portland, dismissed it as "an eyesore" and criticized its "lack of cohesion", and was arrested within days for starting fires. Also includes a few other accounts of minor drug posession, disorderly conduct, a weapons charge, and arrests of people for charges unrelated to the Occupy camp. Occupy Portland had a problem from near the beginning with homeless people joining the camp, and there were no services from the city or state to help them.

From Denver Post: A man who made an impassioned speech in favor of the Occupy Fort Collins camp was arrested as a suspect in an ENTIRELY UNRELATED arson charge.

From Gawker: A military veteran died of a self-inflicted gunshot, and the city used it as an excuse to halt all camping.

From Fox News: A "rash" of reports that consists of 1 accusation of sexual abuse and 1 accusation of sexual assault in Zuccotti park, 1 accusation of sex with a minor in Dallas, and 1 alleged sexual assault in Cleveland. Fox inflates this to "nearly a half-dozen" reports. The article also includes a number of unsubstantiated rumors of destructive behavior by Occupy protestors in various locations around the country.

From Komo News: A man accused of indecent exposure (completely unrelated to the Occupy movement) is arrested when spotted taking part in an Occupy Seattle protest.

From Redstate: Blantaly right-wing opinion piece which includes a number of links purportedly supporting the premise that the Occupy movement is full of criminals. The very first link is about the police entrapment on the Brooklyn Bridge. One of the links is the above piece from Komo News about an unrelated exposure charge. And another is about how Iran supports the Occupy movement (fear the boogeyman!).

From Reuters: This article is about the man shot by Berkeley police in a computer lab at UC Berkeley. No ties to the Occupy movement at all. But the Occupy protest was nearby, so it must be related, right???

From ABC News: A man is arrested for firing an assault rifle at the White House. He "may have spent time with Occupy D.C. protesters."

From The Daily Cardinal: Link broken; defaults to University of Wisconsin's Daily Cardinal homepage.

From New York Post: Article is about theives preying on the lack of security at the Occupy camp. Apparently all that police overtime is really helping...

So! All these articles, and they amount to... a few isolated issues that don't nearly account for all the numbers posted, and a couple of them are for unrelated charges where the person might have been caught in or near an Occupy event.

My overall analysis: Aside from QM being full of shit as usual, it's time to let the camps go. They made a splash, but now they are just being used as fodder for the right wing lie-machines. There are just too many unrelated crazies that come to the camps and interfere with the message. It's time to Occupy the polls, and put the energy into publicly supported legislation.

>> ^MaxWilder:

It's time to Occupy the polls, and put the energy into publicly supported legislation.


And vote for the same Wall Street financed assholes that enable the fraud and corruption.

>> ^marbles:

>> ^MaxWilder:
It's time to Occupy the polls, and put the energy into publicly supported legislation.

And vote for the same Wall Street financed assholes that enable the fraud and corruption.


I'd prefer to see some legislation put forward by citizens to enact public campaign financing, and some voting system reforms to end first-past-the-post.

Good luck with that. Not that it's going to solve any problems.

I'd prefer we do away with the national theater of political campaigns all together and roll back the federal authority to it's original limitations.

And start attacking the shadow corporate government directly like ending it's continuous money tree called the Federal Reserve.>> ^MaxWilder:
I'd prefer to see some legislation put forward by citizens to enact public campaign financing, and some voting system reforms to end first-past-the-post.

>> ^marbles:

Good luck with that. Not that it's going to solve any problems.
I'd prefer we do away with the national theater of political campaigns all together and roll back the federal authority to it's original limitations.
And start attacking the shadow corporate government directly like ending it's continuous money tree called the Federal Reserve.>> ^MaxWilder:
I'd prefer to see some legislation put forward by citizens to enact public campaign financing, and some voting system reforms to end first-past-the-post.



Not going to solve any problems? It would eliminate the cash for favors system that corrupts all levels of elected officials!

And a Condorcet voting system would allow for elections of people who are rational centrists rather than extremists who block Congress from taking any action on any issues of substance!

I'm not opposed to returning some power to the states, but that does nothing to reduce the stranglehold that mega-corporations have over the political spectrum. And for the most part, "shrinking the role of Federal government" is just conservative doublespeak for ending social security, medicare, and every other useful thing the federal government does. I'd like to see the mess we would get into if the states all tried to provide their own defense! But that's not what you mean when you say "roll back the federal authority", is it?

"Lady Outside Wal-Mart Allegedly Pepper Sprays Fellow Customers: In an attempt to get the best deals. Another Wal-Mart customer was shot outside his car in an attempted robbery."

"Black Friday got off to a dark start in the U.S. as several shootings, a bomb scare and a pepper-spraying shopper marred the annual post-Thanksgiving buying blitz."

Terrible terrible things are happening on Black Friday. Let's condemn them all as nasty stinky hippies.

@MaxWilder: It would eliminate the cash for favors system that corrupts all levels of elected officials!

How so? Corporations control mainstream media and news content. If they control the information, campaign dollars don't really matter. Public campaign financing (ie tax payer financing) just saves them the expense.

Public campaign financing just gives Wall Street puppets campaign camouflage. Not that it matters if people know who sponsors their candidates anyway. Plenty of OWS protestors will be voting for Wall Street politicians in the coming elections.

Condorcet voting is certainly better than first past the post, but it's just as corruptible. Especially when you can manipulate voters with polls and biased news coverage.

As for the rest of your post you spend a paragraph trying to contort something I said in one sentence. I said roll back to it's original limitations, ie follow the Constitution. Yes, the same document that also protects our right to peacefully assemble and protest. But we want to pick and choose what parts we want to follow and THAT has everything to do with the "stranglehold that mega-corporations have over the political spectrum".
Furthermore, with more focus on local and state elections, people might actually have a part in "democracy" instead of feigning it on a national level.

Hey VS, now that we have a sarcasm tag, I think it's time for a passive-aggressive tag. Food for thought. With that said:

Not that I wanna give Moveon.org any tips or anything, but why the hell are they branding their videos in cases like this? His assertions are totally correct in this video, but tying that to Moveon.org only pisses off or improperly inflates the opposite ends of the spectrum who don't bother with facts.

It's almost weird that a polarizing organization like that would throw their weight behind a legitimate facts-based movement. Kinda like they want us to fight amongst ourselves or something....

>> ^marbles:

Let me get this straight. MoveOn.org, a lobby group for the Wall Street financed Obama administration that is funded by Wall Street billionaire and financial criminal George Soros, has a problem with political spending? That's rich, Ha.
Oh and the "tax the rich" plan MoveOn and other groups are trying to push are widely supported by Wall Street oligarchs. Why is that? Hmmm....
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903918104576504650
932556900.html
"Roughly 90% of the tax filers who would pay more under Mr. Obama’s plan aren’t millionaires, and 99.99% aren’t billionaires."
It is the middle class – not Warren Buffett or Wall Street corporations – who will be most hurt by the very policies the "tax the rich" crowd are calling for.


did you actually read that article? the only thing you got right is the 90% of tax filers wouldn't be millionaires... if you think the 99% is made of people making 200k+ / yr... you are living in a world where pigs fly and Nickelback rocks

and to defend the 200k+/yr statement against the fact that anyone with half a brain knows that the 99% make an avg wage/salary FAR FAR lower than that, the article defends itself by saying these "200 thousandnaires" might only make this level of pay for a few years of their life... wow! how will they ever get by when a few thousand is obviously so much more large a number to them than people making millions

woops, i guess cold hearted conservatism kinda blinds one to the ironic nature of the difference someone making 30-50k/yr might figure a few thousand is proportionally

cry, cry for the 200 thousandnaires... because the American Dream no longer works as a carrot on a stick when dealing with millions... while you may not be able to become a millionaire, you might be able to still become a 200 thousandnaire... so you better not mess with them

the irony that most won't become a 200 thousandnaire is probably lost on you as well

http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html

>> ^packo:

>> ^marbles:
Let me get this straight. MoveOn.org, a lobby group for the Wall Street financed Obama administration that is funded by Wall Street billionaire and financial criminal George Soros, has a problem with political spending? That's rich, Ha.
Oh and the "tax the rich" plan MoveOn and other groups are trying to push are widely supported by Wall Street oligarchs. Why is that? Hmmm....
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903918104576504650
932556900.html
"Roughly 90% of the tax filers who would pay more under Mr. Obama’s plan aren’t millionaires, and 99.99% aren’t billionaires."
It is the middle class – not Warren Buffett or Wall Street corporations – who will be most hurt by the very policies the "tax the rich" crowd are calling for.

did you actually read that article? the only thing you got right is the 90% of tax filers wouldn't be millionaires... if you think the 99% is made of people making 200k+ / yr... you are living in a world where pigs fly and Nickelback rocks
and to defend the 200k+/yr statement against the fact that anyone with half a brain knows that the 99% make an avg wage/salary FAR FAR lower than that, the article defends itself by saying these "200 thousandnaires" might only make this level of pay for a few years of their life... wow! how will they ever get by when a few thousand is obviously so much more large a number to them than people making millions
woops, i guess cold hearted conservatism kinda blinds one to the ironic nature of the difference someone making 30-50k/yr might figure a few thousand is proportionally
cry, cry for the 200 thousandnaires... because the American Dream no longer works as a carrot on a stick when dealing with millions... while you may not be able to become a millionaire, you might be able to still become a 200 thousandnaire... so you better not mess with them
the irony that most won't become a 200 thousandnaire is probably lost on you as well
http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html


Thanks for confirming what I've already said.

The "tax the rich" legislation is mostly a tax on the middle class and small business owners and NOT on millionaires and corporations.

By the way, it ignores the crux of the problem anyway. ie: Financial fraud and corruption.

@marbles, what you are missing is that if you have FUCKING INCOME, it is okay to pay taxes. The middle class has indeed shared in the Bush tax cuts. They didn't gain as much as the multi-bucks people, but still they gained.

So what if EVERYONE pays a little more? There is a FUCKING DEFICIT AND TWO FUCKING WARS.

If you are poor or unemployed, truly hurt by the recession of the last couple of years? Guess what. YOU DON'T HAVE ANY INCOME. You won't pay "more" taxes.

I am sick to my bones of this weird anti-tax sentiment. It is childish, puerile, short-sighted, and KILLING THIS COUNTRY as everyone grasps more for ME ME ME ME ME ME ME.

Are there other issues? Sure. THE WORLD IS A COMPLICATED PLACE. Reducing complex and inter-related topics down to one thing is.... childish, puerile, short-sighted and KILLING THIS COUNTRY.

>> ^bareboards2:

@marbles, what you are missing is that if you have FUCKING INCOME, it is okay to pay taxes. The middle class has indeed shared in the Bush tax cuts. They didn't gain as much as the multi-bucks people, but still they gained.
So what if EVERYONE pays a little more? There is a FUCKING DEFICIT AND TWO FUCKING WARS.
If you are poor or unemployed, truly hurt by the recession of the last couple of years? Guess what. YOU DON'T HAVE ANY INCOME. You won't pay "more" taxes.
I am sick to my bones of this weird anti-tax sentiment. It is childish, puerile, short-sighted, and KILLING THIS COUNTRY as everyone grasps more for ME ME ME ME ME ME ME.
Are there other issues? Sure. THE WORLD IS A COMPLICATED PLACE. Reducing complex and inter-related topics down to one thing is.... childish, puerile, short-sighted and KILLING THIS COUNTRY.


What you are missing is WHY we have a fucking deficit every year and WHY we have a world stage of perpetual wars.

Now you're just admitting that we need tax increases on the middle class to pay more to Wall Street banks in interest and more to Wall Street government contractors to fuel the war machine to go destroy life and land.

So not only is the rhetoric about taxing millionaires and corporations a complete sham, but we're actually taking the tax revenues from the middle class and small business owners and giving it to the very criminals that got us here to begin with.

Stealing from the middle class to feed the corporate shadow government. And you partisan drones want to brand it as a "tax on millionaires"? LOL

Writing with a crayon. Thinking with a crayon.

Our country is headed for the toilet because too many people are unable to hold a nuanced position.

Crayon talk. Crayon thinking.

Our country is headed for the toilet because too many people want deny reality and cling to prepubescent delusions.

Ignoring facts is anything but nuanced.