Enjoyed this. Upvote.

Thoughtful, well-spoken, charismatic, clever, with a mind to change the politics. A breath of fresh air.

Call me a non-believer, but it's easier to criticize than to actually get to be in power and start DOing things. I know his heart is set on the right place and his eyes are keen, but I personally don't believe he'll be able to pull it off.

I believe you need a certain kind of sneaky, cunning, ruthless characteristic to get the job done (note how Prez Bush doesn't fit this description either). Cheney certainly was sneaky, cunning and ruthless and he got the job done, but only the things HE wanted.

Obama is too clean, too idealistic and certainly under experienced relating to the government to get the job done, though he is very likable as a person. But then again, anything is better than the current Bush administration... so anyone who gets elected after Bush would be popular no matter who it is.

Now, if he was the vice president for Prez Hillary or something... then I can see that combo being good.

Obama's experience has become a sort of token talking point when criticizing his run for presidency. But I'd like to point out, is there any one more experienced than Dick Cheney or Donald Rumfeld? Look how well they've handled things..

Upvote after the peeps comment...

awesome, my first trip to the top 15. thanks guys.

@castles:

They DID do a good job. Good job whatever the hell they wanted to do. Yea, it screwed up the nation. But the point is that they did a good job doing what they targeted to do. Unless of course, their opposition was too dumb to stop them (cough *democrats* cough!). Either way, they've proven to be 'better'.

When you have an important public execution at your hand, you'd get the best executioner in town to behead Marie Antoinette (i know it was the guillotine historically) . Yea cutting people's heads off is a terrible job. But if you're the execution-producer-guy, you'd get someone who's good at cutting people's heads off. You know what I mean?

If only they had democratic ideals, I'd say they would've made fine leaders. Get my point? Or are you too spiteful to give them any credit?

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

Yes, very polished and Charismatic- and a Masters in International Relations. He's the Anti-Bush.

@legacy0100

I have to admit, I'm a little confused. Are you criticizing ("Yea, it screwed up the nation", "If only they had democratic ideals, they would've made fine leaders") or celebrating ("they DID do a good job, they've proven to be 'better'") figures like Cheney and Rumsfeld?

legacy is saying that he believes you have to be willing to play dirty in politics to get things done. The Bush administration has had no qualms about breaking laws, lying, etc. and this has enabled them to achieve what they set out to achieve.

To them, the ends justify the means. Of course most of us feel that the ends weren't desirable to begin with, but that's separate.

Obama does not feel the ends justify the means. He believes the whole process should be kosher. His platform is largely based around being unwilling to play dirty and wanting to restore honesty to Washington. This leads legacy to question Obama's ability to achieve what he proposes.

To further illustrate the concept, allow me to get a little Godwin-ish here for a second... Hitler was a horrible, evil man but he was still a charismatic genius. It's awe-inspiring when you look at the differences he made in Germany while in power. The achievements he's known for are very negative, yes, but they're still achievements. They still took hard work and planning and coordination and so on.

The ability to achieve does not go hand-in-hand with the desire to do good. legacy believes in Obama's desire to do good, but has doubts about his ability to achieve.

Ah, I see now. Thanks very much for the clarification xxovercastxx.

... I always enjoyed his way of accurately and thoughtfully describing both sides of a debated topic while detailing his own opinion. He's been coached away from it, as most jagoffs just want to know quickly what side your on, not why and how.

Ohh, nice interpretation and explanation xxovercastxx

The "you'd leave your wife alone with Bill Clinton?" line was pure hilarity.

*dead

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