*Promote, for Science!

Self promoting this video and sending it back into the queue for one more try; last queued Friday, November 25th, 2011 12:57pm PST - promote requested by original submitter Psychologic.

in no way is this good, i feel.

>> ^GenjiKilpatrick:

in no way is this good, i feel.


I disagree.

We've been in this stage of medicine where we flood the body and brain with a chemical in order to affect a very localized area in a particular way (think chemotherapy). It's effective but causes a lot of collateral problems.

Now we're moving into a stage where chemicals are delivered precisely where they are designed to be. Similar things are being done where smaller amounts of chemotherapy drugs are released only at tumor sites, preventing the horrible side effects of full-body poisoning.

As far as this specific drug, there may be negative effects from it but I can definitely see positive ones. Less abdominal fat is healthier and greatly reduces the risk of a multitude of disabilities. Blame people for being lazy perhaps, but less visceral fat is still healthier than more.

One place where I could see this as being harmful is people thinking "now I can eat nothing but junk food and not get fat". Still, I don't see it as a net loss. Lots of people keep their weight down by eating low-calorie crap with hardly any nutritional value already.

It is well known that homo sapiens evolved on the grassy plains of Africa, thrived and survived to this day, by consuming well metered doses of engineered pharmaceuticals.

I am so glad they have finally discovered the "missing link" here if you will, the secret to health. I knew all along that the supposed triangle of life - donuts, Coca Cola, and a sedentary lifestyle, were actually three parts of a quadrilateral. This fat killing drug will allow us to ascend the food chain even higher, by killing parts of ourselves to survive.

The only thing that gets me is that many people will refuse to take it. I think it should be added to our water supplies.

I wouldn't consider myself fat. I'm within military regulations for BMI and percent body fat and pass the physical fitness test easily.

Still, if this drug were found to be relatively safe (and inexpensive) I would probably use it.

I exercise regularly, but don't have enough time to work out significantly more. I eat healthy food, but reducing my intake enough to lose a decent amount of body fat without increasing exercise time tends to have a mental clouding effect (on me at least), and that isn't the best for tech work.

I don't like people killing themselves with junk food (can't stand that stuff myself), but there are also a lot of disabled people who don't have the ability to live an active life. If something like this drug could improve their life without significant side effects then I'm all for it.

Of course I tend to lean a bit in the Transhumanist direction as well. I'm more concerned with what is healthy than what is historically natural.

Try using HCG... OMG does that work.... I mean, its positively surreal. My parents, overweight for 20 years, just deflated to normal size. You lose a pound a day I think.

Personally, I like the eat right and exercise idea. However... I have seen enough HCG results to know that after I do another round of eating right and exercising, and my abs STILL dont show... I am going to do a round of HCG to shrinkwrap myself.

>> ^deathcow:

Try using HCG... OMG does that work.... I mean, its positively surreal. My parents, overweight for 20 years, just deflated to normal size. You lose a pound a day I think.
Personally, I like the eat right and exercise idea. However... I have seen enough HCG results to know that after I do another round of eating right and exercising, and my abs STILL dont show... I am going to do a round of HCG to shrinkwrap myself.


Hasn't HGH been shown to increase the growth rate of preexisting tumors?

Nevermind, I misread.

Great, finally we'll be free to suffer all the other ill effects of eating shitty high-fat food without having to suffer the ill effects of the fat itself!

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

Side effects? Do you shit bacon grease like that other stuff?>> ^deathcow:

Try using HCG... OMG does that work.... I mean, its positively surreal. My parents, overweight for 20 years, just deflated to normal size. You lose a pound a day I think.
Personally, I like the eat right and exercise idea. However... I have seen enough HCG results to know that after I do another round of eating right and exercising, and my abs STILL dont show... I am going to do a round of HCG to shrinkwrap myself.

You are eating 500 calories a day during it... so low energy is a common side effect.

The side effects are usually well tolerated since the person goes from being 210 pounds to 180 pounds in a month and their waist size is dropping fast.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

500 cals a day - that's super low. Isn't anyone going to lose massive weight on that kind of intake?>> ^deathcow:

You are eating 500 calories a day during it... so low energy is a common side effect.
The side effects are usually well tolerated since the person goes from being 210 pounds to 180 pounds in a month and their waist size is dropping fast.

>> ^deathcow:

Try using HCG... OMG does that work.... I mean, its positively surreal. My parents, overweight for 20 years, just deflated to normal size. You lose a pound a day I think.
Personally, I like the eat right and exercise idea. However... I have seen enough HCG results to know that after I do another round of eating right and exercising, and my abs STILL dont show... I am going to do a round of HCG to shrinkwrap myself.


Yes. Everyone should consume the urine of pregnant women.

No really, Google it.

True enough -- It is a whacked suggestion when parodying the safety of that other product. I have seen the old and frail go through HCG though and come out with better cardio health, massively less joint pain etc. I guess the same will probably be said of this new drug.

HCG makes you burn the energy in your fat.... not kill the blood vessels which supply the cells.

"A meta analysis found that studies supporting hCG for weight loss were of poor methodological quality and concluded that "there is no scientific evidence that HCG is effective in the treatment of obesity; it does not bring about weight-loss or fat-redistribution, nor does it reduce hunger or induce a feeling of well-being."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1365103/?tool=pmcentrez - citation from the Wikipedia article on the subject.

>> ^GenjiKilpatrick:

in no way is this good, i feel.


Pft, You dont feel.

This, like all other weight-loss miracles throughout history, will end in wrongful death lawsuits.

LOL @ HCG not working. I've seen 5 people EVAPORATE on it before my eyes. Oh it works, there is zero doubt.

Turns out it's meth.



(This comment was brought to you by gwiz665)

>> ^Lann:

Turns out it's meth.

(This comment was brought to you by gwiz665)


http://videosift.com/video/Jimmy-Tangos-Fat-Busters-1

If something like this was absolutely safe, I would absolutely use it.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

I'm too lazy to read the article, but that quote at least seems to be just deriding previous studies - not disproving its efficacy. I should probably read the article.>> ^Gallowflak:

"A meta analysis found that studies supporting hCG for weight loss were of poor methodological quality and concluded that "there is no scientific evidence that HCG is effective in the treatment of obesity; it does not bring about weight-loss or fat-redistribution, nor does it reduce hunger or induce a feeling of well-being."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1365103/?tool=pmcentrez - citation from the Wikipedia article on the subject.

Stomach stapling and other medical interventions are intended to get someone to a state where they can then comfortably exercise, prepare their own (healthier) meals, and otherwise change unhealthy habits that are keeping them inactive and shortening their lives.

The safest action would be to consult two physicians (or more), and discuss whether medical aids are an appropriate first step for you.

I have an Aunt who had her stomach stapled (~300 lbs at 5'4", now down to ~200 lbs), and her improving health has definitely helped her and her immediate family in many ways well beyond simply her appearance.


>> ^EMPIRE:

If something like this was absolutely safe, I would absolutely use it.

I'm surprised so many people disprove of this drug.

If the drug is dangerous or has side effects then I can understand, but we don't know yet.

On the other hand if it turns out to be both safe and effective then what's the problem?

>> ^dag:

I'm too lazy to read the article, but that quote at least seems to be just deriding previous studies - not disproving its efficacy. I should probably read the article.>> ^Gallowflak:
"A meta analysis found that studies supporting hCG for weight loss were of poor methodological quality and concluded that "there is no scientific evidence that HCG is effective in the treatment of obesity; it does not bring about weight-loss or fat-redistribution, nor does it reduce hunger or induce a feeling of well-being."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1365103/?tool=pmcentrez - citation from the Wikipedia article on the subject.



Probably, Dag. It's a summary of the results and conclusion of the analysis, not its argument.

I know nothing about this subject, FYI. Still. Science!

Anyone notice the eery similarity to the weight loss drug Adipose from Doctor Who?

It could be any moment where cute little white guys pop off those monkeys and walk away!

Just sayin'.

>> ^bamdrew:

Stomach stapling and other medical interventions are intended to get someone to a state where they can then comfortably exercise, prepare their own (healthier) meals, and otherwise change unhealthy habits that are keeping them inactive and shortening their lives.
The safest action would be to consult two physicians (or more), and discuss whether medical aids are an appropriate first step for you.
I have an Aunt who had her stomach stapled (~300 lbs at 5'4", now down to ~200 lbs), and her improving health has definitely helped her and her immediate family in many ways well beyond simply her appearance.

>> ^EMPIRE:
If something like this was absolutely safe, I would absolutely use it.



I'm not morbidly obese. I'm just lazy and a bit overweight lol

While far from a conspiracy nut, I notice that fat-reducing products that have great potential (and even actual results) are never seen nor heard from again. In America alone the 'diet industry' is 40 billion a year.


Two I remember:


Intra-abdominal vagal blocking (VBLOC therapy): clinical results with a new implantable medical device

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18549888




There was also a pill that mimicked exercise (stuck at the mouse phase).

Both of these items are from 2007-2008.

>> ^EMPIRE:

>>
I'm not morbidly obese. I'm just lazy and a bit overweight lol


Thass about what I figured. What you probably want is intestinal parasites. Thats a pretty lazy way to loose weight... and the pale vampire look is totally hot right now.

>> ^quantumushroom:

There was also a pill that mimicked exercise (stuck at the mouse phase).
Both of these items are from 2007-2008.


I read somewhere that they had begun human trials on that stuff, but it was in an article so who knows.

From what I read that drug caused the mitochondria to multiply (like during intense exercise), but it doesn't help other things like oxygen usage and cardio conditioning. There was something about it increasing lactic acid production in athletes, but I didn't dig too deep on the subject.

On performance drugs, I wonder how much resistance comes from the "clean sports" mentality. Lots of stuff (ex- steroids) have a lot of downsides, so it would be interesting to see if a relatively safe performance enhancer would be generally welcome if not designed specifically to address a medical problem.

These are costly and typically slow-moving ventures. A lot of waiting for approvals, signing up and weeding through subjects, processing collected data, etc.. Many promising ideas get lost in the ~4-8 years from rodent animal model to large human trials (researchers leave the project following new ideas, funding dries up, etc.).

One trick you'll often see if you look for it is the country the initial human data is collected in; Portugal (and Scandinavian countries to an extent) has laws with a higher tolerance for experimental use of clinically approved devices and devices shown to be biocompatible than the US, so you'll see a group from Purdue in the middle of Indiana gathering data with surgical staff and subjects who are in Portugal.

The study you cite is also surgically invasive, and the obese subjects are not going to be the healthiest people out there... the fear of random health complications can keep project leaders up at night, and can quietly kill a project if they're bad enough. Related to the study you cite, I'm aware of vagal nerve stimulation being researched for treating depression... in other words, systems in the body that seem straightforward often reveal themselves to be a part of complex, intertwined feedback loops.


>> ^quantumushroom:

While far from a conspiracy nut, I notice that fat-reducing products that have great potential (and even actual results) are never seen nor heard from again. In America alone the 'diet industry' is 40 billion a year.

Two I remember:

Intra-abdominal vagal blocking (VBLOC therapy): clinical results with a new implantable medical device
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18549888


There was also a pill that mimicked exercise (stuck at the mouse phase).
Both of these items are from 2007-2008.

>> ^bamdrew:

>> ^EMPIRE:
>>
I'm not morbidly obese. I'm just lazy and a bit overweight lol

Thass about what I figured. What you probably want is intestinal parasites. Thats a pretty lazy way to loose weight... and the pale vampire look is totally hot right now.


I said absolutely safe. I don't think looking like a cadaver is exactly a sign of health

Like any "suppressed" invention, it's way easier for the established companies to simply buy the patent (while getting their 'friends' in government to thwart progess) and also way easier for the inventors to take a large buyout instead of spending possible decades getting a product to market, especially drugs.


>> ^Psychologic:



>> ^quantumushroom:
There was also a pill that mimicked exercise (stuck at the mouse phase).
Both of these items are from 2007-2008.

I read somewhere that they had begun human trials on that stuff, but it was in an article so who knows.
From what I read that drug caused the mitochondria to multiply (like during intense exercise), but it doesn't help other things like oxygen usage and cardio conditioning. There was something about it increasing lactic acid production in athletes, but I didn't dig too deep on the subject.
On performance drugs, I wonder how much resistance comes from the "clean sports" mentality. Lots of stuff (ex- steroids) have a lot of downsides, so it would be interesting to see if a relatively safe performance enhancer would be generally welcome if not designed specifically to address a medical problem.

Common sense would dictate that drug companies be allowed to offer deals to terminally ill patients, perhaps in exchange for paying for their care. But the FDA is there to make sure common sense is kept locked away.

Everything you've stated is true, and the fadeouts of these potential 'cures' certainly don't sell papers like hype does.



>> ^bamdrew:

These are costly and typically slow-moving ventures. A lot of waiting for approvals, signing up and weeding through subjects, processing collected data, etc.. Many promising ideas get lost in the ~4-8 years from rodent animal model to large human trials (researchers leave the project following new ideas, funding dries up, etc.).
One trick you'll often see if you look for it is the country the initial human data is collected in; Portugal (and Scandinavian countries to an extent) has laws with a higher tolerance for experimental use of clinically approved devices and devices shown to be biocompatible than the US, so you'll see a group from Purdue in the middle of Indiana gathering data with surgical staff and subjects who are in Portugal.
The study you cite is also surgically invasive, and the obese subjects are not going to be the healthiest people out there... the fear of random health complications can keep project leaders up at night, and can quietly kill a project if they're bad enough. Related to the study you cite, I'm aware of vagal nerve stimulation being researched for treating depression... in other words, systems in the body that seem straightforward often reveal themselves to be a part of complex, intertwined feedback loops.

>> ^quantumushroom:
While far from a conspiracy nut, I notice that fat-reducing products that have great potential (and even actual results) are never seen nor heard from again. In America alone the 'diet industry' is 40 billion a year.

Two I remember:

Intra-abdominal vagal blocking (VBLOC therapy): clinical results with a new implantable medical device
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18549888


There was also a pill that mimicked exercise (stuck at the mouse phase).
Both of these items are from 2007-2008.

In my opinion your cynicism is misplaced.

This is an industry full of people who live for the thrill of discovery and the emotional excitement of helping individuals live longer and happier lives. That said, it is difficult to get approval for novel, invasive treatments... and for good reason; unforeseeable complications can have life-altering consequences.

This current system greatly favors established companies who have the resources to build and equip a team to successfully navigate the approval processes (and absorb the fallout of a failure). An industry partner is often times THE ONLY way for a University-affiliated biomedical researcher to see their discovery possibly implemented. Another option is a group of matriculating grad students devoting their early careers to hounding venture capitalists, angel investors, grant agencies and established companies to invest in their startup... typically this involves traveling till exhaustion, and constantly hearing how great ones idea is while receiving no call backs... only the best ideas with the most patient, stubborn and lucky supporters survive.

>> ^quantumushroom:

Like any "suppressed" invention, it's way easier for the established companies to simply buy the patent (while getting their 'friends' in government to thwart progess) and also way easier for the inventors to take a large buyout instead of spending possible decades getting a product to market, especially drugs.

The 'terminally ill' do still qualify for small and large clinical trials, but the severity and complication of their illness will effect their acceptance to a study group. The best study subjects are going to be young, otherwise healthy individuals with a supportive family, close proximity to the research hospital, and a upbeat attitude in the face of the challenges ahead!

Here's a decent read about clinical trials in general: http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/info/understand
You might be interested in the 'Phases' part, describing the size of participant pools. You might also be interested in seeing some of the recently approved devices/procedures (they include scans of the letters sent out, which I always find interesting): http://www.fda.gov/MedicalDevices/ProductsandMedicalProcedures/DeviceApprovalsandClearances/Recently-ApprovedDevices/ucm241143.htm

One last thing to note; you can follow products funded by the government (http://grants.nih.gov/grants/funding/sbir.htm for instance) as they progress by digging through the interwebs. Private companies can get a peak at their publicly funded competition sometimes, which,... well, is actually usually not as useful as you'd think.

>> ^quantumushroom:

Common sense would dictate that drug companies be allowed to offer deals to terminally ill patients, perhaps in exchange for paying for their care. But the FDA is there to make sure common sense is kept locked away.

[redacted]