ouch. Well, that says a lot for "moderate" muslims and muslim student groups.



Also, well done, Horowitz!

heh, she sounded like an angsty nerd the second she began to speak.

SIGH.

>> ^GenjiKilpatrick:

heh, she sounded like an angsty nerd the second she began to speak.


Nailed it.

Big up vote from me.

I'm waiting for all the defenders of Hamas and Hezbollah on the sift here to come charging in to the student's defense. This conversation and debate needs to be repeated the world over, again and again until people can no longer claim ignorance as a defense.

The only difference between this girl and her opposition is that her opposition can hold large public rallies freely espousing and rationalizing mass murder. With total impunity.

http://videosift.com/video/Max-Blumenthal-at-a-Pro-Israel-Rally-in-New-York

>> ^longde:

The only difference between this girl and her opposition is that her opposition can hold large public rallies freely espousing and rationalizing mass murder. With total impunity.
http://videosift.com/video/Max-Blumenthal-at-a-Pro-Israel-Rally-in-
New-York


Look, don't get me wrong, I am definitely not a fan of Israel, but two wrongs don't make a right. This "moderate" muslim just agreed that rounding up all jews for extermination is a good idea.

Not all jews support Israel or what they do in their poached territories (I sure as hell don't). That said, when someone just knee-jerk says that rounding me up because of what ethnic group I was born into is a good idea, they become an extremist in my eyes and aren't worth shit.

You're oversimplifying. I'm an American born Jew, I don't support many of Israel's policies and will openly criticize them.. One does not have to support Israel to be a Jew in the same way one does not have to support Hamas and Hezbollah to be a Muslim.
Horowitz understands the distinction.


Her question and Horowitz's response were directly related to that idea. Your comment ignores it completely.

>> ^longde:

The only difference between this girl and her opposition is that her opposition can hold large public rallies freely espousing and rationalizing mass murder. With total impunity.
http://videosift.com/video/Max-Blumenthal-at-a-Pro-Israel-Rally-in-
New-York

This girl's 'opposition' isn't the Israeli Government, Military, or even Pro-Israeli groups. Her opposition is every single Jew currently living. She did not say "Israel shouldn't exist" (a debatable point.) "Israel should stop expansion," (a point which I agree with) or even "Israel should stop use of excessive military force." (Debatable.)


My issue with the girl (and your point) is that her argument isn't "Israel is wrong," but that "Judaism should not exist."
Jews and Muslims aren't the problem. Neither are those people who call themselves Israelis, Palestinians or anything else.

>> ^longde:

The only difference between this girl and her opposition is that her opposition can hold large public rallies freely espousing and rationalizing mass murder. With total impunity.
http://videosift.com/video/Max-Blumenthal-at-a-Pro-Israel-Rally-in-
New-York

>> ^longde:

The only difference between this girl and her opposition is that her opposition can hold large public rallies freely espousing and rationalizing mass murder. With total impunity.
http://videosift.com/video/Max-Blumenthal-at-a-Pro-Israel-Rally-in-
New-York


Ah, here they come.

How would you have answered the question, will you condemn Hamas and Hezbollah?

Cry all you want about how unfair it is that Hamas and Hezbollah have been demonized, the fact is that they deserve it. It is telling that your kind finds opposing the extermination of all Israelis as an unacceptably pro-Israeli sentiment. That is the distinction between racists like yourself and this girl, and your opposition.

Hummus isn't that bad, it's actually pretty good with veggie platters. lol @ oh yeah, you're wearing a terrorist neckerchief.

I think she is extremist, no doubt. I just want to highlight how much extremism we are willing to tolerate.

And, I have said nothing about all Jews. I think you are reading alot into what I wrote.

>> ^ponceleon:

>> ^longde:
The only difference between this girl and her opposition is that her opposition can hold large public rallies freely espousing and rationalizing mass murder. With total impunity.
http://videosift.com/video/Max-Blumenthal-at-a-Pro-Israel-Rally-in-
New-York

Look, don't get me wrong, I am definitely not a fan of Israel, but two wrongs don't make a right. This "moderate" muslim just agreed that rounding up all jews for extermination is a good idea.
Not all jews support Israel or what they do in their poached territories (I sure as hell don't). That said, when someone just knee-jerk says that rounding me up because of what ethnic group I was born into is a good idea, they become an extremist in my eyes and aren't worth shit.

I think you're putting words in my mouth. When did I talk about Jews or imply what this young woman said was right?

I am simply pointing out how much extremism that we, including Horowitz, are willing to ignore or rationalize.

>> ^escape421521:

You're oversimplifying. I'm an American born Jew, I don't support many of Israel's policies and will openly criticize them.. One does not have to support Israel to be a Jew in the same way one does not have to support Hamas and Hezbollah to be a Muslim.
Horowitz understands the distinction.
Her question and Horowitz's response were directly related to that idea. Your comment ignores it completely.
>> ^longde:
The only difference between this girl and her opposition is that her opposition can hold large public rallies freely espousing and rationalizing mass murder. With total impunity.
http://videosift.com/video/Max-Blumenthal-at-a-Pro-Israel-Rally-in-
New-York

I define her opposition as the people on the other side using extrremism and killing to achieve their ends. Perhaps I have defined it too broadly. I certainly don't think it encapsulates all Jews or Isrealis, but I do think it includes the Israeli government and military.>> ^escape421521:

This girl's 'opposition' isn't the Israeli Government, Military, or even Pro-Israeli groups. Her opposition is every single Jew currently living. She did not say "Israel shouldn't exist" (a debatable point.) "Israel should stop expansion," (a point which I agree with) or even "Israel should stop use of excessive military force." (Debatable.)
My issue with the girl (and your point) is that her argument isn't "Israel is wrong," but that "Judaism should not exist."
Jews and Muslims aren't the problem. Neither are those people who call themselves Israelis, Palestinians or anything else.
>> ^longde:
The only difference between this girl and her opposition is that her opposition can hold large public rallies freely espousing and rationalizing mass murder. With total impunity.
http://videosift.com/video/Max-Blumenthal-at-a-Pro-Israel-Rally-in-
New-York

Fuck both sides, fuck the UN too.

We could go on and on about how the UN fucks everything up.

Liberia any one?

My answer: I condemn all sides of that clusterfuck. A thing that irks me about the video is not only the girl's extremism, it is Horowitz' false position of moral superiority.


>> ^bcglorf:

>> ^longde:
The only difference between this girl and her opposition is that her opposition can hold large public rallies freely espousing and rationalizing mass murder. With total impunity.
http://videosift.com/video/Max-Blumenthal-at-a-Pro-Israel-Rally-in-
New-York

Ah, here they come.
How would you have answered the question, will you condemn Hamas and Hezbollah?
Cry all you want about how unfair it is that Hamas and Hezbollah have been demonized, the fact is that they deserve it. It is telling that your kind finds opposing the extermination of all Israelis as an unacceptably pro-Israeli sentiment. That is the distinction between racists like yourself and this girl, and your opposition.

>> ^longde:

My answer: I condemn all sides of that clusterfuck. A thing that irks me about the video is not only the girl's extremism, it is Horowitz' false position of moral superiority.

>> ^bcglorf:
>> ^longde:
The only difference between this girl and her opposition is that her opposition can hold large public rallies freely espousing and rationalizing mass murder. With total impunity.
http://videosift.com/video/Max-Blumenthal-at-a-Pro-Israel-Rally-in-
New-York

Ah, here they come.
How would you have answered the question, will you condemn Hamas and Hezbollah?
Cry all you want about how unfair it is that Hamas and Hezbollah have been demonized, the fact is that they deserve it. It is telling that your kind finds opposing the extermination of all Israelis as an unacceptably pro-Israeli sentiment. That is the distinction between racists like yourself and this girl, and your opposition.



False superiority? I'm not familiar with Horowitz, but in the video he doesn't seem to be in the business of defending the excesses of the Israeli military.

Standing against those that defend Hamas and Hezbollah, or who refuse to condemn them is the moral high ground, with nothing false about it. You need people to stand up for the cause of Palestinian and Jewish civilians in the region, and that means standing against those that have sworn their life's purpose as the extermination of either.

I am very familiar with Horowitz and his canon, and I am interpreting the above exchange in that context. I have never heard him condemn the extremism on the other side, and I have read many of his tripes encouraging it.

As for the girl, all I have to go on is that exchange.

>> ^bcglorf:

>> ^longde:
My answer: I condemn all sides of that clusterfuck. A thing that irks me about the video is not only the girl's extremism, it is Horowitz' false position of moral superiority.

>> ^bcglorf:
>> ^longde:
The only difference between this girl and her opposition is that her opposition can hold large public rallies freely espousing and rationalizing mass murder. With total impunity.
http://videosift.com/video/Max-Blumenthal-at-a-Pro-Israel-Rally-in-
New-York

Ah, here they come.
How would you have answered the question, will you condemn Hamas and Hezbollah?
Cry all you want about how unfair it is that Hamas and Hezbollah have been demonized, the fact is that they deserve it. It is telling that your kind finds opposing the extermination of all Israelis as an unacceptably pro-Israeli sentiment. That is the distinction between racists like yourself and this girl, and your opposition.


False superiority? I'm not familiar with Horowitz, but in the video he doesn't seem to be in the business of defending the excesses of the Israeli military.
Standing against those that defend Hamas and Hezbollah, or who refuse to condemn them is the moral high ground, with nothing false about it. You need people to stand up for the cause of Palestinian and Jewish civilians in the region, and that means standing against those that have sworn their life's purpose as the extermination of either.

Will Horowitz condemn the leadership of Israel? That should have been her counter-question.

If anyone in the region is attempting "ethnic cleansing" it's the Israelis.

Yes Hamas is wrong but so is their opposition. Honestly I find less to blame in persecuted peoples who promote hate speech in an attempt to fight their persecutors than I find with persecutors who promote hate speech in an effort to villainize an entire population to the point where it's "overlooked" by world governments when they simply "relocate" those people they don't like away from prosperous land and into tenements.

Both sides of the argument can be wrong and in this case they are. Horowitz is a nasty piece of work and I have no sympathy for racist douchebags like him.

Will Horowitz condemn the leadership of Israel? That should have been her counter-question.

If anyone in the region is attempting "ethnic cleansing" it's the Israelis.

If the Israelis really wanted to "cleanse" Palestine it would all have been over decades ago and we'd be here talking about the horror and tragedy of it. Condemning Israel as a whole is NOT the same as condemning Hamas as a whole.

-Israel's stated reason for existence is NOT the elimination of all Mulsims, Arabs or Palestinians.
-Hamas' founding charter includes the extermination of all Jewish people from the entire region.

Specific excesses of the Israeli people, government and military absolutely are deserving of condemnation. The entirety of the state itself is a different matter, and failing to see that is the equivalent of failing to see the difference between the Palestinian people and Hamas.

The ignorant drawing of moral equivalence between Hamas and the government of Israel has it's origins firmly in the racism of Arab superiority.

Yes Hamas is wrong but so is their opposition. Honestly I find less to blame in persecuted peoples who promote hate speech in an attempt to fight their persecutors

And yet Hamas has managed to kill more Palestinians than Israelis through their war against Fatah. They are no more freedom fighters for persecuted Palestinians than the Nazi's were freedom fighters for persecuted Germans.

>> ^NordlichReiter:

Fuck both sides, fuck the UN too.
We could go on and on about how the UN fucks everything up.
Liberia any one?


Amen to Liberia. The UN keeps doing it because it is little more than a committee of representatives from nations that could care less what happens as long as it doesn't affect their own self interest.

I have never heard him condemn the extremism on the other side, and I have read many of his tripes encouraging it.

As for the girl, all I have to go on is that exchange.


So you condemn Horowitz for failing to condemn Israel.

Are you then ready to condemn Hamas and Hezbollah?

Will you decry the girl in the video for her failure to do so as well?

See above>> ^bcglorf:

I have never heard him condemn the extremism on the other side, and I have read many of his tripes encouraging it.
As for the girl, all I have to go on is that exchange.

So you condemn Horowitz for failing to condemn Israel.
Are you then ready to condemn Hamas and Hezbollah?
Will you decry the girl in the video for her failure to do so as well?

Is it just me, or are many Americans converting to Islam and wearing the Hijab because they're so desperate for attention that they'll take it in any form?

Honestly I find less to blame in persecuted peoples who promote hate speech in an attempt to fight their persecutors than I find with persecutors who promote hate speech in an effort to villainize an entire population to the point where it's "overlooked" by world governments when they simply "relocate" those people they don't like away from prosperous land and into tenements.

I don't think I sufficiently denounced this folly before.

Harken back to 1940's Palestine, when the Arab majority was persecuting the Jewish minority. Remember 1949, when the Jewish survivors of the holocaust finally had enough of being persecuted in Palestine as well, and rose up to fight for their independence. Do you have the same difficulty condemning Israel's violence then?

Let's go further, can you cheer with me as the Jewish survivors of the holocaust fought for independence only to be faced by the united wrath of the entire Arab League of Nations. As they were outnumbered 100-1, by forces set on finishing what Hitler nearly accomplished only a few short years earlier, can you spare a cheer for their ultimate victory and survival?

I can understand attributing some leniency when a desperate people resorts to extremes. What I fail to understand is where absolutely non of that leniency is extended to Israel in any way shape or form. Hamas and Hezbollah aren't a direct existential threat to Israel, but they ARE proxies for the multiple nations that do have that potential.

Revisionist history

>> ^bcglorf:

Honestly I find less to blame in persecuted peoples who promote hate speech in an attempt to fight their persecutors than I find with persecutors who promote hate speech in an effort to villainize an entire population to the point where it's "overlooked" by world governments when they simply "relocate" those people they don't like away from prosperous land and into tenements.
I don't think I sufficiently denounced this folly before.
Harken back to 1940's Palestine, when the Arab majority was persecuting the Jewish minority. Remember 1949, when the Jewish survivors of the holocaust finally had enough of being persecuted in Palestine as well, and rose up to fight for their independence. Do you have the same difficulty condemning Israel's violence then?
Let's go further, can you cheer with me as the Jewish survivors of the holocaust fought for independence only to be faced by the united wrath of the entire Arab League of Nations. As they were outnumbered 100-1, by forces set on finishing what Hitler nearly accomplished only a few short years earlier, can you spare a cheer for their ultimate victory and survival?
I can understand attributing some leniency when a desperate people resorts to extremes. What I fail to understand is where absolutely non of that leniency is extended to Israel in any way shape or form. Hamas and Hezbollah aren't a direct existential threat to Israel, but they ARE proxies for the multiple nations that do have that potential.

Look guys I don't see what the problem here is, she's fat...

The scarf she's wearing that Horowitz commented on is called a Keffiyeh, which is a fairly traditional Arab garment. The specific black and white pattern on hers is mostly associated with Yasser Arafat, hence the Terrorist reference.

I can't tell how much of her responses are sarcasm, and that is the determiner for judging her responses. However, this Horowitz fella seems to be a pretty hardlined zionist. He places her in a situation where she can't state a middleground and sets up a false dichotomy. Hezbollah is responsible for some mean shit, but look at what their actions are against. Folks say that Israel doesn't want to exterminate anybody. Thats bullshit and shows a lack of study or critical analysis of the situation. Israel's entire existence is contingent on Imperialism. They are a modern example of "Manifest Destiny v. Native Americans". Fuck Israel, and fuck Horowitz for defending a racist, apartheid system. As far as the woman is concerned, her sarcasm was the incorrect approach to the situation, and she shouldn't have responded to the false dichotomy. Easy to say these things in my shoes though, not her's, at that moment n all that.

>> ^longde:

Revisionist history



Please enlighten me to what part is revisionist.

I'm quite afraid that the narrative that describes Israel's independence as foreign Jews occupying the homeland of Arab Palestinians often starts it's revisions with questioning the holocaust itself.

Not even Arab scholars question the main points I've outlined. The Jewish Palestinians had significant numbers before 1900, and the 40's saw a civil war between Jewish and Arab Palestinians. Arab scholars are even well agreed that the entire Arab world united to drive the Jews into the sea. The main difference between their version and the one I described is that they remember it as the great catastrophe, for the failure to exterminate all Jewish Palestinians. I'm content to see it as a triumph of the Jewish people after having just lost several million to the holocaust 5 years earlier.

Those "Terrorist Neckerchiefs" seem pretty trendy these days. They go with a wide variety of ensembles.

Horowitz is a complete tool. Fuck him.

Both sides are crazy!

>> ^bcglorf:

I have never heard him condemn the extremism on the other side, and I have read many of his tripes encouraging it.
As for the girl, all I have to go on is that exchange.

So you condemn Horowitz for failing to condemn Israel.
Are you then ready to condemn Hamas and Hezbollah?
Will you decry the girl in the video for her failure to do so as well?


Not to put too fine a point on it but you are off in cloud cuckoo land...

Longde never said he supported Hammas or Hezbollah. He merely said that people will not tolerate this woman espousing her hateful and ill conceived views, but we extend that courtesy to the Jews/Israelies who want to wipe out the Palestinians, likewise hateful and ill conceived...

You've done the instinctive jump (I'm surprised you didn't start waving the holocaust flag sooner tbh) to go on the offensive as if Longde was some jew hating white supremicist when you have nothing, from what he has said, to base that on...

Of course, your mindset is blazened quite proudly on your sleeve...

"I'm content to see it as a triumph of the Jewish people after having just lost several million to the holocaust 5 years earlier."

A triumph? Is that what we are calling terrorism now?

And I quote:

"The unified resistance movement in Palestine split up in July 1946, after Irgun's bombing of the British Military Headquarters, the King David Hotel bombing, which killed 92, mostly civilians."

Mostly civilians. Would you condemn the extremists who helped establish the Jewish state? If not, you are about as reasonable as the woman in the clip...

For the record (in case you've actually read this far), I condemn Hammas and Hezbollah for their crimes. I condemn the right wing government of Israel for it's crimes and it's Nazi-esque policies. I condemn any Jew who supports them and wants to see Palestine gone. I condemn Jews who misuse terribly the suffering of those involved in the Holocaust to silence dissent to Israels current facist actions.

I'd hazard a guess that Longde would have a similar mindset.

He merely said that people will not tolerate this woman espousing her hateful and ill conceived views, but we extend that courtesy to the Jews/Israelies who want to wipe out the Palestinians, likewise hateful and ill conceived.

He went a touch further initially and characterized all opposition to this girl as hypocrites that extend the courtesy to Israeli and Jewish acts of terrorism and excess. That by extension paints all Israelis as wanting to wipe out the Palestinians, and I do consider that a hateful view and will oppose it as long as it remains untrue. He did later clarify that as too broad though, and my last response had been to Drachen_Jager.

You've done the instinctive jump (I'm surprised you didn't start waving the holocaust flag sooner tbh) to go on the offensive as if Longde was some jew hating white supremicist when you have nothing, from what he has said, to base that on.

And yet you both failed the litmus test. When Drachen_Jager stated his willingness to extend leniency to oppressed peoples, like Hamas and Hezbollah, I pointed back to 1940's Israel and asked if the same standards applied then. Longde declared that to be revisionist history and you've made it clear you consider the Israeli war of independence a terrorist act. I never said anything about Israel's many crimes being justified because of the holocaust. I just stated that when considering the civil war between Jew and Arab in 1940's Palestine, the holocaust absolutely sways me in support of the Jewish minority. All the more so when the entirety of the Arab world decided to join in and attempt to exterminate the Jewish people for the second time in a single decade.

Would you condemn the extremists who helped establish the Jewish state?

Yes. Would you condemn the very establishment of that Jewish state because of those extremists? I certainly am not willing to, and if you are I'd ask if Hamas has then similarly disqualified the Palestinians from the right to a Palestinian state?

For the record (in case you've actually read this far), I condemn Hammas and Hezbollah for their crimes. I condemn the right wing government of Israel for it's crimes and it's Nazi-esque policies. I condemn any Jew who supports them and wants to see Palestine gone. I condemn Jews who misuse terribly the suffering of those involved in the Holocaust to silence dissent to Israels current facist actions.

And I can agree whole heartedly with this entire paragraph. We see 100% eye to eye on it. I do differ in going a touch further though and requiring the observation that Hamas, Hezbollah, Syria, Iran and a great many arab populations in surrounding countries are all as nazi-esque in their racism towards Israel. Hamas and Hezbollah also go further still in being less discriminate in their hatred and use of violence. The only thing holding them back from exterminating all Israeli's is they lack the ability to do it. At least the right wing nuts in Israel like Netanyahu are held back by the will of the moderate Israeli's, because there can be no mistaking that if Netanyahu's kind wished to turn the West bank and Gaza into lifeless rubble they could likely do it inside a week.

I'm perfectly content to condemn Israel for it's crimes and extremists. I will not settle for disproportionate blame being laid on them for all the hate, violence and atrocities befalling the region around them. The Palestinians aren't the only ones who's extremists have arisen from existential threats to their people.

Here is what I wrote above: "I define her opposition as the people on the other side using extrremism and killing to achieve their ends. Perhaps I have defined it too broadly. I certainly don't think it encapsulates all Jews or Isrealis, but I do think it includes the Israeli government and military."

Again, you are putting words in my mouth, unless all Israelis and all Jews use extremism and killing.


>> ^bcglorf:

He merely said that people will not tolerate this woman espousing her hateful and ill conceived views, but we extend that courtesy to the Jews/Israelies who want to wipe out the Palestinians, likewise hateful and ill conceived.
He went a touch further initially and characterized all opposition to this girl as hypocrites that extend the courtesy to Israeli and Jewish acts of terrorism and excess. That by extension paints all Israelis as wanting to wipe out the Palestinians, and I do consider that a hateful view and will oppose it as long as it remains untrue. He did later clarify that as too broad though, and my last response had been to Drachen_Jager.
You've done the instinctive jump (I'm surprised you didn't start waving the holocaust flag sooner tbh) to go on the offensive as if Longde was some jew hating white supremicist when you have nothing, from what he has said, to base that on.
And yet you both failed the litmus test. When Drachen_Jager stated his willingness to extend leniency to oppressed peoples, like Hamas and Hezbollah, I pointed back to 1940's Israel and asked if the same standards applied then. Longde declared that to be revisionist history and you've made it clear you consider the Israeli war of independence a terrorist act. I never said anything about Israel's many crimes being justified because of the holocaust. I just stated that when considering the civil war between Jew and Arab in 1940's Palestine, the holocaust absolutely sways me in support of the Jewish minority. All the more so when the entirety of the Arab world decided to join in and attempt to exterminate the Jewish people for the second time in a single decade.
Would you condemn the extremists who helped establish the Jewish state?
Yes. Would you condemn the very establishment of that Jewish state because of those extremists? I certainly am not willing to, and if you are I'd ask if Hamas has then similarly disqualified the Palestinians from the right to a Palestinian state?
For the record (in case you've actually read this far), I condemn Hammas and Hezbollah for their crimes. I condemn the right wing government of Israel for it's crimes and it's Nazi-esque policies. I condemn any Jew who supports them and wants to see Palestine gone. I condemn Jews who misuse terribly the suffering of those involved in the Holocaust to silence dissent to Israels current facist actions.
And I can agree whole heartedly with this entire paragraph. We see 100% eye to eye on it. I do differ in going a touch further though and requiring the observation that Hamas, Hezbollah, Syria, Iran and a great many arab populations in surrounding countries are all as nazi-esque in their racism towards Israel. Hamas and Hezbollah also go further still in being less discriminate in their hatred and use of violence. The only thing holding them back from exterminating all Israeli's is they lack the ability to do it. At least the right wing nuts in Israel like Netanyahu are held back by the will of the moderate Israeli's, because there can be no mistaking that if Netanyahu's kind wished to turn the West bank and Gaza into lifeless rubble they could likely do it inside a week.
I'm perfectly content to condemn Israel for it's crimes and extremists. I will not settle for disproportionate blame being laid on them for all the hate, violence and atrocities befalling the region around them. The Palestinians aren't the only ones who's extremists have arisen from existential threats to their people.

Here is what I wrote above: "I define her opposition as the people on the other side using extrremism and killing to achieve their ends. Perhaps I have defined it too broadly. I certainly don't think it encapsulates all Jews or Isrealis, but I do think it includes the Israeli government and military."

Again, you are putting words in my mouth, unless all Israelis and all Jews use extremism and killing.

Which is why I noted that you did later clarify that as too broad.

I was defending my response prior to you giving your definition of "opposition".

I will say I was being a bit antagonistic by repeating the following after you had already declared your condemnation for all sides:
Are you then ready to condemn Hamas and Hezbollah?
Will you decry the girl in the video for her failure to do so as well?

I just still find it ambiguous to simply say hang them all. It still leaves room to lump all Israeli's as terrorists no different from Hamas or Hezbollah. The distinction may be subtle, but it's implications extend to questioning the legitimacy of Israel's right to exist. Whether you are aware of that or not, it's a major propaganda chip used in recruiting support for the elimination of Israel as a state.

I would be (have been) as vehement about pointing out the distinction between Hamas existence and the legitimate right of Palestinians to their own state.

Tags for this video have been changed from 'islam, horowitz, msa, hamas, israel' to 'islam, horowitz, msa, hamas, israel, hezbollah, muslim' - edited by blankfist

This planet would be one hell of a lot more fun of religious zealots stopped blowing eachother up over claims to some piece of shit desert in the middle of nowhere.

Horowitz is a well known hardcore piece of shit who has backed wholesale slaughter and land grabs for years and years. This girl is an idiot. Both of them should just kill eachother.

>> ^volumptuous:

This planet would be one hell of a lot more fun of religious zealots stopped blowing eachother up over claims to some piece of shit desert in the middle of nowhere.
Horowitz is a well known hardcore piece of shit who has backed wholesale slaughter and land grabs for years and years. This girl is an idiot. Both of them should just kill eachother.


"if relgious zealots stopped blowing each other up . . . "

"Both of them should just kill each other."

Well? Which way do you want it?

So good! Nicely said.

>> ^volumptuous:

This planet would be one hell of a lot more fun of religious zealots stopped blowing eachother up over claims to some piece of shit desert in the middle of nowhere.
Horowitz is a well known hardcore piece of shit who has backed wholesale slaughter and land grabs for years and years. This girl is an idiot. Both of them should just kill eachother.

TLDR.

PS: Both sides are crazy pants. A little bit like this thread.

>> ^bcglorf:

He merely said that people will not tolerate this woman espousing her hateful and ill conceived views, but we extend that courtesy to the Jews/Israelies who want to wipe out the Palestinians, likewise hateful and ill conceived.
He went a touch further initially and characterized all opposition to this girl as hypocrites that extend the courtesy to Israeli and Jewish acts of terrorism and excess. That by extension paints all Israelis as wanting to wipe out the Palestinians, and I do consider that a hateful view and will oppose it as long as it remains untrue. He did later clarify that as too broad though, and my last response had been to Drachen_Jager.
You've done the instinctive jump (I'm surprised you didn't start waving the holocaust flag sooner tbh) to go on the offensive as if Longde was some jew hating white supremicist when you have nothing, from what he has said, to base that on.
And yet you both failed the litmus test. When Drachen_Jager stated his willingness to extend leniency to oppressed peoples, like Hamas and Hezbollah, I pointed back to 1940's Israel and asked if the same standards applied then. Longde declared that to be revisionist history and you've made it clear you consider the Israeli war of independence a terrorist act. I never said anything about Israel's many crimes being justified because of the holocaust. I just stated that when considering the civil war between Jew and Arab in 1940's Palestine, the holocaust absolutely sways me in support of the Jewish minority. All the more so when the entirety of the Arab world decided to join in and attempt to exterminate the Jewish people for the second time in a single decade.
Would you condemn the extremists who helped establish the Jewish state?
Yes. Would you condemn the very establishment of that Jewish state because of those extremists? I certainly am not willing to, and if you are I'd ask if Hamas has then similarly disqualified the Palestinians from the right to a Palestinian state?
For the record (in case you've actually read this far), I condemn Hammas and Hezbollah for their crimes. I condemn the right wing government of Israel for it's crimes and it's Nazi-esque policies. I condemn any Jew who supports them and wants to see Palestine gone. I condemn Jews who misuse terribly the suffering of those involved in the Holocaust to silence dissent to Israels current facist actions.
And I can agree whole heartedly with this entire paragraph. We see 100% eye to eye on it. I do differ in going a touch further though and requiring the observation that Hamas, Hezbollah, Syria, Iran and a great many arab populations in surrounding countries are all as nazi-esque in their racism towards Israel. Hamas and Hezbollah also go further still in being less discriminate in their hatred and use of violence. The only thing holding them back from exterminating all Israeli's is they lack the ability to do it. At least the right wing nuts in Israel like Netanyahu are held back by the will of the moderate Israeli's, because there can be no mistaking that if Netanyahu's kind wished to turn the West bank and Gaza into lifeless rubble they could likely do it inside a week.
I'm perfectly content to condemn Israel for it's crimes and extremists. I will not settle for disproportionate blame being laid on them for all the hate, violence and atrocities befalling the region around them. The Palestinians aren't the only ones who's extremists have arisen from existential threats to their people.

>> ^silvercord:

>> ^volumptuous:
This planet would be one hell of a lot more fun of religious zealots stopped blowing eachother up over claims to some piece of shit desert in the middle of nowhere.
Horowitz is a well known hardcore piece of shit who has backed wholesale slaughter and land grabs for years and years. This girl is an idiot. Both of them should just kill eachother.

"if relgious zealots stopped blowing each other up . . . "
"Both of them should just kill each other."
Well? Which way do you want it?


I should've been more clear.

The zealots should kill eachother, not the general populations who are just trying to go about their days and feed their kids and work their shitty jobs and not die of dysentery.

At the end there i was just waiting for him to say -"now please sit down and wait, the DHS will be with you shortly".

^I see a great reality show in this:

Fundamentalist Island: The Ultimate Grudge Match.

Radical Jews, Christians and Muslims battle for religious supremacy on a desert island, armed only with hatred and their bare hands. Last man standing gets to live on a religiously purified island... until he eventually dies alone of dehydration or scurvy, or gets run through by a wild boar or mauled by a polar bear.

There is no political agenda or religious agenda or any reasoning whatsoever that justifies killing an entire people based on race. Its not a point or a counterpoint or an eye opener. Please call it like it is. If you are suggesting racial genocide - you are profoundly and unequivocally wrong.

>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:

^I see a great reality show in this:
Fundamentalist Island: The Ultimate Grudge Match.
Radical Jews, Christians and Muslims battle for religious supremacy on a desert island, armed only with hatred and their bare hands. Last man standing gets to live on a religiously purified island... until he eventually dies alone of dehydration or scurvy, or gets run through by a wild boar or mauled by a polar bear.


Carlin would be proud....

That seems like the most reasonable response to this video on the page.>> ^tsquire1:

I can't tell how much of her responses are sarcasm, and that is the determiner for judging her responses. However, this Horowitz fella seems to be a pretty hardlined zionist. He places her in a situation where she can't state a middleground and sets up a false dichotomy. Hezbollah is responsible for some mean shit, but look at what their actions are against. Folks say that Israel doesn't want to exterminate anybody. Thats bullshit and shows a lack of study or critical analysis of the situation. Israel's entire existence is contingent on Imperialism. They are a modern example of "Manifest Destiny v. Native Americans". Fuck Israel, and fuck Horowitz for defending a racist, apartheid system. As far as the woman is concerned, her sarcasm was the incorrect approach to the situation, and she shouldn't have responded to the false dichotomy. Easy to say these things in my shoes though, not her's, at that moment n all that.

I would so watch that.

Who do you think would ally with who? I mean, you have three sides and let's assume equal numbers.

The muslims would stay the hell away from the jews. Would they try a deal with the christians? I imagine the christians would see it as beneath themselves to deal with anyone (presuming they're white americans, say). Would the jews consider reaching out to either side? It would be so interesting. I mean, no side is going to attack another without an alliance because they'd have lower numbers afterwards and would therefore be disadvantaged fighting the third group. You might even end up with an awkward peace with no fighting at all!

I can see I will be pondering this evilly for some time.>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:

^I see a great reality show in this:
Fundamentalist Island: The Ultimate Grudge Match.
Radical Jews, Christians and Muslims battle for religious supremacy on a desert island, armed only with hatred and their bare hands. Last man standing gets to live on a religiously purified island... until he eventually dies alone of dehydration or scurvy, or gets run through by a wild boar or mauled by a polar bear.