Maddow is so cute when shes angry...which is allways

She is very easily the smartest person on the web. Not just smartest woman.

Ask any Brit or Canadian if they'd like to trade their 'Government Run System' for an American style Corporate run system and see what they say.

*quality

Boosting this quality contribution up in the Hot Listing - declared quality by dystopianfuturetoday.

>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:
Ask any Brit or Canadian if they'd like to trade their 'Government Run System' for an American style Corporate run system and see what they say.


One of the things that frustrates me about this is that the plan that is being proposed is essentially a stripped down version of Medicare accessible to everyone and NOTHING like the national health care systems in use around the world.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

This is something that needs to be seen by as many people as possible. A great piece.

Well, if socialized medicine is where everyone pays for everyone else's medical problems, then it is communal in nature. The community as a whole pays for itself as a community. That is in fact communism.

Sniper007

comunisum
socalisum
capatalisum

on there own are words that can never describe a society of people , because you can not get much information from the words alone , and the fact that all so cites are mixture of them to some existent. and when it comes to a democracy there is nearly always evan more so of a mix of aspects of each one .

This is why its laffable when people shout the words out as if its meant to have some sort of impact or as if one of the words is inherently a good or bad thing.

comunisum
socalisum
capatalisum

non are inherently good or bad , it depends of the implimentatoin of each one.

Allso this woman presenter has the same long winded over dramatic way of talking as obeman where it takes 8 minutes or so to get to there piont.

what would be a far more effective way to communicate is to highlight the point first Ie coperate amerca is trying to controle things again , then go over the facts and introduce the story , then at the end round up with the message that coperate amerca is controling things again .

It anoys me how thay both over dramatisize things , maby in usa it do sent come across that way but to me first time I here one of there paces im like oh this must be serous but then because thay use the same over dramatic tone for everything I cannot help but feal they are putting it on to some existent. I find the best news casters / commentators talk about the facts and explain things in a non emotive factual fashion , emotive tones and voice should only be used in live interviews when the person thay are talking to is been a dick .

Evan if English health care is shit compared to others , the key point is I don't want to be reluctant on getting help if I Think I am broken and have to consider the financial impact. and im perfectly happy paying a tax that covers other people who r more elikly to be in the shit than me , MY life is going to be far happear if the people around me are happy and not ill.

only exception should be for people that put themselves in ultra high risk situations repeatedly (dangerous sports , people that employ oil rig workers) thay should have some form of insurance ontop of things as they are putting a will full burdon on the system , then this could pay for our rescue helicopters and life gaureds and varouse under funded rescue services who generally do a really good job.

>> ^brycewi19:
She is very easily the smartest person on the web. Not just smartest woman.


She is very intelligent, but I think Colbert takes that honor.

I thought Communism involved property and means of production, though I suppose if everyone had the exact same insurance with only one possible provider then that could be a component of Communism.

You know - I'm going to go ahead and use one profanity for a change, though I usually eschew the practice. But all this neoliberal whining about the health care protesters is BULLSHIT.

I have a very good memory. I recall that in the Bush years, the Democrat party was pretty cool with the fine art of public protesting. Democrat protests were FAR more organized and planned by neolib far-left interests than the current protests are.

But now all of a sudden the protesters are 'nazis'... The White House sets up a snitch program to rat out fellow citizens... Unions thugs are roughing up protesters... Leaders of the house & senate are maligning US citizens and even Godwined the issue... Neolib apologists and propogandists like Madcow whining about how 'bad' protesting is... Hmmm - Democrats don't seem to think protests are so cool any more. Community activists are now a bunch of 'nazis'... My, how things change in just a few months...

I didn't mind the protests against Bush, even though they were Democrat hired rent-a-mobs. But there's nothing WRONG with that. If the protests didn't actually reflect the will of the people, then they would have gone nowhere. But the Iraq war protests had traction becuse the American people didn't support the war in general. The protests reflected the national mood and attitude - so they were legigimate despite being fostered and fomented by neolib special interest groups.

The same thing is true of the protests now. This is not just a bunch of bussed in rent-a-mobs. This is a wide spread protest by a HUGE number of citizens who do not like what is happening. They're motivated by the stimulus bill, or unemployment, cap & trade, takeovers of auto companies, the huge deficit spending, the health bill, or any number of about a million things Obama has said/done/planned since he took office.

I think they also reflect the rather alarming attitude that Democrats demonstrating since they took power. They are acting about 100X more totalitarian and nazi-esque than the Republicans ever did under Bush. They drip with contempt towards their own citizens. They insult and demean opposition. They ignore the polls that show there is not a lot of support for what they're doing. They're brusque, callous, and haughty - and they don't mind showing it. What's worse, there are some very scary things going on like Union thugs roughing up protestors and shoving private citizens out of public meetings. That's jackbooted, brownshirted, oppression being bought and paid for by Democrats - just the stuff they accused Bush of doing.

And then there's the Democrat party's blatant hypocrisy. They whine at citizens for not saving money while they spend like drunken sailors. They tell companies to drive to Washington while they buy brand new private jets and go on massively expensive junkets.

Combine the lack of support for unpopular legislation with the Democrat propensity for voter disdain and utter hypocrisy... Is it any small wonder that people are protesting en masse? It's a wonder this didn't hit them much sooner, to be frank. They've crossed a line and reached a tipping point. This isn't just some Republican orchestrated thing. This is a massive citizen uprising against a government that is becoming too intrusive.

The neoliberals flacks like Madcow can sneer at the citizens all they want. But these are CITIZENS of the United States that are trying to get invovled in the process - and the Democrats are treating them like they're scum. The Democrat party is playing with fire here. If they keep up this kind of condescention and deny the reality of the situation (that people DON'T want this) then they're going to end up repeating 1994 in 2010.

>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:
You know - I'm going to go ahead and use one profanity for a change, though I usually eschew the practice. But all this neoliberal whining about the health care protesters is BULLSHIT.


Lets rewrite that statement for increased accuracy: "Any whining about disruptive protesters from other disruptive protesters is BULLSHIT."

Destroying a political discussion with obnoxious behavior is terrible, no matter who is doing it. Anyone who disrupted a Bush town hall meeting in the same way was a douche too. That doesn't make it right for people doing it now, regardless of the subject being discussed. In the same regard, just because someone complains about it happening now doesn't mean that they did it themselves in the past... unless of course you assign all people to one of two generalized groups while implying "people in <Group A> are all the same".

>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:
Ask any Brit or Canadian if they'd like to trade their 'Government Run System' for an American style Corporate run system and see what they say.


I prefer neither. Government restrictions is what lead to this problem. I think we can do better without corporations and without government.

maybe if the weak were strong, they wouldn't be so weak all the time.

i wish there was a way to make the weak be strong.

weakness is gay. helping the weak is totally gay.

you should totally just be strong if you're weak; kind of a no brainer i think. what's the problem??

just stop being so weak. or full of cancer. or retarded. or full of AIDS. or starving.

just stop... if you don't like what you are just stop being.

then us strong people can be strong like we have always, and will always, be. god its so simple.

In a society of free speech you have to take the bad with the good Psycho. From what I've seen so far, the videos of these meetings have a common motif. A person gets up and asks a tough question or brings up a legitimate concern... The Democrat gives an answer that they find unsatisfactory. In response, a TON of people in the audience loudly express thier unhappiness with the 'canned' response to thier pointed questions. They're mad because the question is not being addressed - and they don't want to let the politician just weasel out of it because its an issue they know is critical.

This isn't just a cute little bill that no one cares about. This is a fundamental change to the entire American way of life. People do not want this to happen hastily. But the Democrats want to cram this through fast, without debate, over the objections of the majority of the American people. You dang well better believe people are going to these meetings with an axe to grind. And you know what? God BLESS them!

These are average citizens who are trying to get involved in the political process by going right to the person they elected. And government officials, right up to the President themselves, are targeting these private citizens in order to silence them, shut them up, and block them from effecting the political process. That's a billion times scarier than Bush's intelligence program, which the neolibs were so incensed about.

Please finish your thought:

" the Democrats want to cram this through fast, without debate, over the objections of the majority of the American people."


.... IN ORDER TO _____________________________ .

Por que do "the democrats" want to do this awful deed? Please inform us of the conspiracy.

Yea, im super duper scared Obama doesn't want to listen to a bunch of idiots spouting nonsense.

that's like, my number one concern.

Where the hell do these people come from? The United States is at war alright, but the enemy is from within.

Hmmm, why isn't Rachel exposing the union thugs attacking the defenseless protesters?

97% of Conservatives do not know how to use that lump, 2.5 feet above their butt. The remaining, 3% do. The 3% tell the 97% how to think, on what to think, and how to speak, what they say. End result: 1984.

Funny how these conservatives behave as they do, to argue endlessly. But when asked direct questions, they fail to understand what they were just arguing about. This is a problem, since this 97% are so easily to manipulate, on any subject, that good discussion of the pro's and con's can not take place.

Conservatives, hate change. They fear new things. They need an enemy, or else, they can not exist. So, the 3% have provided the other 97% with all these things: Hate Obama, Fear Socialism/Nazism/Totalitarianism, Democrates & Liberals are the new Terrorists/Al-Quada/USSR/Nazi person to attack. An so they attack.....mindlessly.

Health Care will take place. Its to bad these conservative Republicans are pissing away a golden oppunity to put in real input, dialoug, and maybe shape the direction for the betterment of the USA. Instead, they will piss away the chance. Just like they pissed away that Political Capital GWB mentioned in 2004. And pissed away help from EVERY COUNTRY except one immediately after 9/11/2001 (libya and Iraq even offered to help the USA through a dark and dangerous moment).

>> ^TangledThorns:
Hmmm, why isn't Rachel exposing the union thugs attacking the defenseless protesters?


Not what happened. Nor was Obama born in Kenya, FYI.

>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:
You know - I'm going to go ahead and use one profanity for a change, though I usually eschew the practice. But all this neoliberal whining about the health care protesters is BULLSHIT.
I have a very good memory. I recall that in the Bush years, the Democrat party was pretty cool with the fine art of public protesting. Democrat protests were FAR more organized and planned by neolib far-left interests than the current protests are.
But now all of a sudden the protesters are 'nazis'... The White House sets up a snitch program to rat out fellow citizens... Unions thugs are roughing up protesters... Leaders of the house & senate are maligning US citizens and even Godwined the issue... Neolib apologists and propogandists like Madcow whining about how 'bad' protesting is... Hmmm - Democrats don't seem to think protests are so cool any more. Community activists are now a bunch of 'nazis'... My, how things change in just a few months...
I didn't mind the protests against Bush, even though they were Democrat hired rent-a-mobs. But there's nothing WRONG with that. If the protests didn't actually reflect the will of the people, then they would have gone nowhere. But the Iraq war protests had traction becuse the American people didn't support the war in general. The protests reflected the national mood and attitude - so they were legigimate despite being fostered and fomented by neolib special interest groups.
The same thing is true of the protests now. This is not just a bunch of bussed in rent-a-mobs. This is a wide spread protest by a HUGE number of citizens who do not like what is happening. They're motivated by the stimulus bill, or unemployment, cap & trade, takeovers of auto companies, the huge deficit spending, the health bill, or any number of about a million things Obama has said/done/planned since he took office.
I think they also reflect the rather alarming attitude that Democrats demonstrating since they took power. They are acting about 100X more totalitarian and nazi-esque than the Republicans ever did under Bush. They drip with contempt towards their own citizens. They insult and demean opposition. They ignore the polls that show there is not a lot of support for what they're doing. They're brusque, callous, and haughty - and they don't mind showing it. What's worse, there are some very scary things going on like Union thugs roughing up protestors and shoving private citizens out of public meetings. That's jackbooted, brownshirted, oppression being bought and paid for by Democrats - just the stuff they accused Bush of doing.
And then there's the Democrat party's blatant hypocrisy. They whine at citizens for not saving money while they spend like drunken sailors. They tell companies to drive to Washington while they buy brand new private jets and go on massively expensive junkets.
Combine the lack of support for unpopular legislation with the Democrat propensity for voter disdain and utter hypocrisy... Is it any small wonder that people are protesting en masse? It's a wonder this didn't hit them much sooner, to be frank. They've crossed a line and reached a tipping point. This isn't just some Republican orchestrated thing. This is a massive citizen uprising against a government that is becoming too intrusive.
The neoliberals flacks like Madcow can sneer at the citizens all they want. But these are CITIZENS of the United States that are trying to get invovled in the process - and the Democrats are treating them like they're scum. The Democrat party is playing with fire here. If they keep up this kind of condescention and deny the reality of the situation (that people DON'T want this) then they're going to end up repeating 1994 in 2010.


C'mon really dont be that stupid, first of all with the war on Irak most of the people at that time was Ok with it, when they saw that everything was a lie and a personal agenda of some is when the protest begin not before , but now they are protesting for something that has not even happen, for someone as ignorant as you it has to ring a bell or are these rednecks that naive not to ask some question or see diferent opinions before taking a side?. C'mon

If she's the smartest person on TV, how does she not understand that national health care plan proposed IS socialism? You just look stupid when you mock people pointing out the obvious.

It's not a "national insurance policy" - that would imply, at least to reasonable people, that it would cover its own costs using, you know, actuary tables and stuff like that, like real companies use. Instead, it is subsidized health care, where the government picks up 2/3rds of the tab of health care, while increasing health costs by paying doctors more than market value for their services.

There's nothing to like about Obamacare. Unless you're a doctor, I guess. Which is why the AMA is for it.

She's also kind of wrong about middle class people being upset about Obamacare. Read a poll some time.

She also claims the Employee Free Choice act is "pro-labor". What? Ending the secret ballot for working people in Unions is, quote, "Pro-Labor?" She's either an idiot, or ridiculously uninformed.

Maddow? "Smart"? Give me a break.

>> ^ShakaUVM:
If she's the smartest person on TV, how does she not understand that national health care plan proposed IS socialism? You just look stupid when you mock people pointing out the obvious.
It's not a "national insurance policy" - that would imply, at least to reasonable people, that it would cover its own costs using, you know, actuary tables and stuff like that, like real companies use. Instead, it is subsidized health care, where the government picks up 2/3rds of the tab of health care, while increasing health costs by paying doctors more than market value for their services.
There's nothing to like about Obamacare. Unless you're a doctor, I guess. Which is why the AMA is for it.


C'mon
I really try to undestand all you rednecks out there, but this is something I dont get :
If your so call "socialism" will help far more people, far more ( I wont put a number because probably you didnt learn it before quiting elementry school) what is the problem , because it sound like "socialism", mmm...C'mon....Yes do it like real companies!! keep fucking me in the ass, yes I will pay more for my shitty health care insurance so I can get a flu shoot, Yes!!! , as long it doesnt sound like "socialism"

As an aside - to me, her method of presenting/speech is remarkably similar to Olbermann's.

>> ^ShakaUVM:
She's also kind of wrong about middle class people being upset about Obamacare. Read a poll some time.
She also claims the Employee Free Choice act is "pro-labor". What? Ending the secret ballot for working people in Unions is, quote, "Pro-Labor?" She's either an idiot, or ridiculously uninformed.
Maddow? "Smart"? Give me a break.


Okay, you are much less an informed person than WP..

1. 'read a poll sometime' I have just as many polls available saying middle class people approve of healthcare reform as I have polls that say the opposite. Also, no polls anywhere refer to 'Obamacare'. That word just shows you have very little original thought and are using regurgitated Fox News drivel to argue against something you haven't bothered to inform yourself about.

2. I have to challenge you to submit evidence that she said anything about ending secret ballots being pro-labor, and also challenge you to present evidence that the Employee Free Choice act does nothing besides end secret ballots.

3. I submit that you, sir, are a troll of rather poor talent.

EFCA does *not* eliminate secret ballot elections.

"The Employee Free Choice Act preserves "secret ballot" elections, but also ensures that workers, not CEOs, decide whether to form a union at work through "majority sign-up." Right now, even when a majority of employees in a workplace sign cards saying they want to form a union and have them certified by the federal agency that oversees labor law, the company can decide that workers have to do it all again months later by forcing them to hold an election."

What is wrong with your country?!

>> ^zomgunicorns:
What is wrong with your country?!


One word: GREED.

>> ^zomgunicorns:
What is wrong with your country?!


Another word: APTATHY.

>> ^Lolthien:
>> Okay, you are much less an informed person than WP..

You're saying that because I disagree with you, which is a rather silly thing to say, since you're wrong.

1. 'read a poll sometime' I have just as many polls available saying middle class people approve of healthcare reform as I have polls that say the opposite. Also, no polls anywhere refer to 'Obamacare'.
That word just shows you have very little original thought and are using regurgitated Fox News drivel to argue against something you haven't bothered to inform yourself about.

What an amazingly powerful argument. The possibility hasn't suggested itself to you that 1) I don't watch Fox News (except at the gym, which is all that they have on), 2) I have informed myself as much as possible about the issue, 3) I think Obamacare is the perfect name for it, and 4) I have read the polls, and people don't support it. Hell, the NYT showed 70% of people were worried about Obamacare. Not that it matters to Rachel Maddow, since all those people must be part of the Republican Secret Masters of the Earth organization.

2. I have to challenge you to submit evidence that she said anything about ending secret ballots being pro-labor, and also challenge you to present evidence that the Employee Free Choice act does nothing besides end secret ballots.
3. I submit that you, sir, are a troll of rather poor talent.

Pot, Kettle.

She said the EFCA was a pro-labor bill, when it is anything but. If she had said it was a pro-union bill, then yes, absolutely true.

There's a good summary of why it is anti-labor here:
http://www.heritage.org/research/labor/bg2027.cfm

(And yes, I know the Heritage foundation is right-wing, but it's a good summary of why the bill is bad for workers.)

>> ^oscarillo:
>> ^ShakaUVM:
If she's the smartest person on TV, how does she not understand that national health care plan proposed IS socialism? You just look stupid when you mock people pointing out the obvious.
It's not a "national insurance policy" - that would imply, at least to reasonable people, that it would cover its own costs using, you know, actuary tables and stuff like that, like real companies use. Instead, it is subsidized health care, where the government picks up 2/3rds of the tab of health care, while increasing health costs by paying doctors more than market value for their services.
There's nothing to like about Obamacare. Unless you're a doctor, I guess. Which is why the AMA is for it.

C'mon
I really try to undestand all you rednecks out there, but this is something I dont get :
If your so call "socialism" will help far more people, far more ( I wont put a number because probably you didnt learn it before quiting elementry school) what is the problem , because it sound like "socialism", mmm...C'mon....Yes do it like real companies!! keep fucking me in the ass, yes I will pay more for my shitty health care insurance so I can get a flu shoot, Yes!!! , as long it doesnt sound like "socialism"


I didn't say I disagreed with it because it was socialism, I was just mocking Rachel for trying to pretend that it's not socialism. The VA, Medicare, Medi-Cal, etc., are all socialized medicine systems. She's shilling for the administration by trying to pretend otherwise. I detest dishonesty like that in reporters.

But I dislike Obamacare because 1) It'll bankrupt the country and 2) It will raise medical prices.

The VA is an example of socialized medicine run passably well. They use their massive purchasing power to negotiate lower drug rates for their system, and they do everything they can to keep costs low. Obamacare (and to be fair, Medicare Part D, Bush's brain-dead plan) not only will not use its power to lower rates, but actually raises them above the current market rates (Medicare Part D prohibits the government from using its purchasing power from negotiating lower rates). I don't see how anyone who understands his system could possibly be for it.

Unless you think Obama can wave his magic fairy wand and leprechauns and unicorns will pop into existence to lower our blood pressure and cure cancer.

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