Yeah, it's not a big deal when you're expecting it. I'm guessing it might be a different story when it catches you by surprise in an emergency situation.

The issue is that a good 40-60% of drivers cannot drive for shit , ether they are incompetent for everything outside of normal base operation , or they are over confident and thing they can rag the car around every corner/ tail gate people .

Tags for this video have been changed from 'pedal, gas, stuck, accelerat, toyota, popular mechanics, easy' to 'pedal, gas, stuck, accelerate, toyota, popular mechanics, easy' - edited by calvados

>> ^westy:
The issue is that a good 40-60% of drivers cannot drive for shit , ether they are incompetent for everything outside of normal base operation , or they are over confident and thing they can rag the car around every corner/ tail gate people .

I agree, that's -one- issue...and those folks are hit disproportionately hard when equipment doesn't behave as it should. My point is that his demo is virtually meaningless...simply because he knew it was coming, it completely trivializes the risk created.

I disagree that the demo is virtually meaningless. He wasn't saying that people shouldn't be surprised or that the risk is trivial. He was showing that, even if the throttle is completely open, the brakes are able to stop the car in a timely and safe manner.

If that wasn't the case, the issue would be much greater but as the brakes are more powerful than the gas the issue doesn't have to be a lethal one.
>> ^Stormsinger:
>> ^westy:
The issue is that a good 40-60% of drivers cannot drive for shit , ether they are incompetent for everything outside of normal base operation , or they are over confident and thing they can rag the car around every corner/ tail gate people .

I agree, that's -one- issue...and those folks are hit disproportionately hard when equipment doesn't behave as it should. My point is that his demo is virtually meaningless...simply because he knew it was coming, it completely trivializes the risk created.

Let's put human condition into consideration. Let's say you're driving 45 mph on a road built for 45 mph speeds. Let's say then you start to unexpectedly accelerate. You'll waste a good 2 seconds trying to figure out what the fuck is going on. Then you'll waste another 3 (what seem like infinite) seconds coming up with a game plan to stop the car. Now you're going about 85 on a road built for 45. You start to panic...you're going way to fast. Let's see you think under those conditions.

What he really saying is that he is on the Toyota Payroll.

What this article fails to include are the unique issues with the hybrid cars. Oddly enough, two have gone out of control in my home city, San Diego. The first being a death, which started the publicity. This one was driven by an off duty cop! I would think his training would have given him these skills to stop the car. However, as more and more facts have come out, the brakes it seems are useless. The Prius uses a combination of electrical and mechanical braking. Unfortunately the mechanical only kicks in under a certain speed.

Many people have reported burying the brake pedal to the floor and it having little effect. They also seem to not be able to shift into neutral, as it's a drive by wire system. Many cars don't let you shut off the engine if it's in gear too.

The Prius, while being a butt ugly eye sore and gutless wonder, also has an electric motor. These have 100% of their torque at any RPM. This means a gas engine can be fought and stalled with functional brakes, but you fight the full torgue of an electric motor all the way down to stopping, if you're lucky.

No, a fail-safe override needs to be considered for all drive by wire vehicles. Something that actually physically disconnects power from the system as a last resort.

>> ^rottenseed:
Let's put human condition into consideration. Let's say you're driving 45 mph on a road built for 45 mph speeds. Let's say then you start to unexpectedly accelerate. You'll waste a good 2 seconds trying to figure out what the fuck is going on. Then you'll waste another 3 (what seem like infinite) seconds coming up with a game plan to stop the car. Now you're going about 85 on a road built for 45. You start to panic...you're going way to fast. Let's see you think under those conditions.


The person's reaction is probably going to be to hit the breaks to slow down. Probably not hard at first but enough to slow them down a little as they go through the realization process. I once did a road trip in an old car that was one of the first to have cruise control and I accidentally bumped it on and it started accelerating rapidly; not quite the same situation as cruise control turned off as soon as I put any pressure on the breaks, but the scenario is pretty similar.

>> ^rottenseed:
Let's put human condition into consideration. Let's say you're driving 45 mph on a road built for 45 mph speeds. Let's say then you start to unexpectedly accelerate. You'll waste a good 2 seconds trying to figure out what the fuck is going on. Then you'll waste another 3 (what seem like infinite) seconds coming up with a game plan to stop the car. Now you're going about 85 on a road built for 45. You start to panic...you're going way to fast. Let's see you think under those conditions.


If you haven't even THOUGHT about what to do in that situation (which happens in a lot more cars than just Toyotas, BTW) you don't deserve to drive a car.

The main problem is people who take driving a car for granted. It's a complex amalgam of skills and situational awareness, yet people view it as an extension (and somtimes complete replacement) of walking.

>> ^supersparky:
What this article fails to include are the unique issues with the hybrid cars. Oddly enough, two have gone out of control in my home city, San Diego. The first being a death, which started the publicity. This one was driven by an off duty cop! I would think his training would have given him these skills to stop the car. However, as more and more facts have come out, the brakes it seems are useless. The Prius uses a combination of electrical and mechanical braking. Unfortunately the mechanical only kicks in under a certain speed.
Many people have reported burying the brake pedal to the floor and it having little effect. They also seem to not be able to shift into neutral, as it's a drive by wire system. Many cars don't let you shut off the engine if it's in gear too.
The Prius, while being a butt ugly eye sore and gutless wonder, also has an electric motor. These have 100% of their torque at any RPM. This means a gas engine can be fought and stalled with functional brakes, but you fight the full torgue of an electric motor all the way down to stopping, if you're lucky.
No, a fail-safe override needs to be considered for all drive by wire vehicles. Something that actually physically disconnects power from the system as a last resort.


My understanding is that the car driven by the off duty officer was a 2009 Lexus ES 350. That is not a hybrid. That said, I tried the 'move the shift to neutral' trick yesterday in my Windstar and it worked just fine.

However, the link I provided also noted: Last month, Consumer Reports found that models that don't have so-called smart-throttle technology, which allows the brake to take precedence over the throttle, a vehicle might not have adequate brakes to overcome a stuck throttle at 60 mph.

So, jam your foot down on the brake and kick it into neutral, pray like hell that you hit a truckload of Snuggies.

As for the electric cars, maybe a nuclear air burst that issues an effective electromagnetic pulse would do the trick.

Other vehicles will cut you off, animals and people will run out in front of you, tires will blow out, brake lines will break, ice and snow will accumulate, rocks and debris will kick up off the road or fall from other vehicles. You've got to be ready to react to all these situations calmly and logically. "I wasn't expecting that" won't save your life.
>> ^Stormsinger:
Yeah, it's not a big deal when you're expecting it. I'm guessing it might be a different story when it catches you by surprise in an emergency situation.

As someone who had his Caprice Classic accelerate out of control (it was famous for the Flying Dutchman Syndrome, and they NEVER did a recall on it), I can tell you it's not (always) driver error that causes these crashes, and that the brakes absolutely DON'T work.

I was on the campus loop at UCSD, at a four way stop, when my car suddenly accelerated out of control. I ran the stop sign, dodged cars and pedestrians and accelerated up to about 60 while I was frantically stomping on the brake pedal (which did nothing, since the accelerator was floored). I thought the gas pedal was stuck and I reached down to pull it out - nothing. So I just turned my car off and stomped on the brakes (with no power assist) until it came to a stop. I was very fortunate nobody was hit.

The Prius that was in the news recently, here in San Diego, the conventional brakes were useless, and shifting to neutral wouldn't work, as it wouldn't allow it. What was successful, according to the CHP, was a very zealous tug on the hand brake (definitely an "emergency" brake in this case) as well as the foot pedal. The officer positioned his car in front, not to slow it down, but to prevent it from shooting forward after the driver finally got the car to a stop, despite it still wanting to move forward. Essentially the squad car was acting as a brick wall, but not a brake assist.

In this case, the car would not shift into neutral, nor did foot braking alone make a difference. It was muscle on the hand brake that ever so slowly dropped the speed.

You are correct about the first casualty. It was a Lexus and it happened in Santee, CA (part of San Diego County). The brake and neutral attempt were useless. The situation is described thus:

---
California Highway Patrol Officer Mark Saylor, 45, his wife, Cleofe, 45, their daughter Mahala, 13, and Cleofe's brother Chris Lastrella, 39, were traveling on a freeway near Santee on Aug. 28 when their vehicle reached speeds of more than 120 mph, hit a sport utility vehicle, launched off an embankment, rolled several times and burst into flames.

Investigators found that a wrong-sized floor mat that trapped the accelerator was the cause of the crash. (Note, this has not been forensically proven, and is in dispute at the moment.)

A haunting 911 call captured Lastrella telling the others to pray before the car launched off the embankment.

...the Lexus ES350 "began to accelerate on its own." Saylor attempted to apply the brakes and do everything possible to stop the car, but he was unable to do so...
---

The video demonstrated the "technique" on a relatively low horse power (and low torque) four cylinder engine. A Lexus ES350 has a 272HP V6 (at full throttle) and the Prius has a high torque electric motor. Good luck with that braking.

>> ^silvercord:
>> ^supersparky:
What this article fails to include are the unique issues with the hybrid cars. Oddly enough, two have gone out of control in my home city, San Diego. The first being a death, which started the publicity. This one was driven by an off duty cop! I would think his training would have given him these skills to stop the car. However, as more and more facts have come out, the brakes it seems are useless. The Prius uses a combination of electrical and mechanical braking. Unfortunately the mechanical only kicks in under a certain speed.
Many people have reported burying the brake pedal to the floor and it having little effect. They also seem to not be able to shift into neutral, as it's a drive by wire system. Many cars don't let you shut off the engine if it's in gear too.
The Prius, while being a butt ugly eye sore and gutless wonder, also has an electric motor. These have 100% of their torque at any RPM. This means a gas engine can be fought and stalled with functional brakes, but you fight the full torgue of an electric motor all the way down to stopping, if you're lucky.
No, a fail-safe override needs to be considered for all drive by wire vehicles. Something that actually physically disconnects power from the system as a last resort.

My understanding is that the car driven by the off duty officer was a 2009 Lexus ES 350. That is not a hybrid. That said, I tried the 'move the shift to neutral' trick yesterday in my Windstar and it worked just fine.
However, the link I provided also noted: Last month, Consumer Reports found that models that don't have so-called smart-throttle technology, which allows the brake to take precedence over the throttle, a vehicle might not have adequate brakes to overcome a stuck throttle at 60 mph.
So, jam your foot down on the brake and kick it into neutral, pray like hell that you hit a truckload of Snuggies.
As for the electric cars, maybe a nuclear air burst that issues an effective electromagnetic pulse would do the trick.

If your vehicle unexpectedly accelerates - systematically open the door and jump - you can then continue to slowly decelerate while in the rolling position