This is terrible! People will be able to get health care even if they don't have any money! And to make things worse, they'll be using my hard earned taxes to treat their diseases! I fucking hate helping people! I would rather just keep my money to myself while people die around me, roads and public buildings fall into disrepair, police forces are contracted out to private companies by whoever has the most money, and then call Obama "Hitler!"

Just goes to show you that we can't allow liberal, activist judges like Roberts to run rough-shod over our legal system.

Haven't you been desperately crying for the poor people to pay more in taxes? You should be jubilant! Higher taxes on the bottom 99%! FUCK YEAH!

Awww, except that most of the people that make enough to afford insurance already have insurance and so won't be taxed, and most of the people too poor to afford insurance will get it for free from Medicaid and so won't be taxed.

All this occurred because of a RINO Olympia Snowe, gave in.

This is such policy. I hope that Republican RINO Romney gets in along with filling the house and senate with true TEA Party members.


Olympia Snowe gives the vote to get OBAMA care out of committee.


This is why we can't afford any RINO, Republicans or Democrats controlling government any more. Tea Party need only apply.

Right, because the Tea Party is so clearly unhindered by outsideinfluence.>> ^bobknight33:

All this occurred because of a RINO Olympia Snowe, gave in.
This is such policy. I hope that Republican RINO Romney gets in along with filling the house and senate with true TEA Party members.

Olympia Snowe gives the vote to get OBAMA care out of committee.

This is why we can't afford any RINO, Republicans or Democrats controlling government any more. Tea Party need only apply.

This corrupt, incoherent decision goes way beyond socialized medicine.

This is what you need to take away from this: the Supreme Idiots have now given the federal mafia unlimited power. Fuck your health insurance or anything else, it does not matter because you are no longer free. The pigs can now penalize you for doing something they don't like, and "TAX" your dumb asses when you DON'T do something they command you to do.

We are no longer free, a message lost on whose who didn't give a damn about freedom to begin with. To you ninnyhammers still whining about "greed", we've only spent 9 trillion dollars on a failed "War on Poverty".

Why you lefties born in America (by accident) just don't up and move to Europe I'll never know. They already have a socialist paradise.

What an utter load of horseshit QM.
We have had a very similar scheme in australia for DECADES. If you dont get private health cover, the govt will tax you to a rate where you would otherwise be paying for it anyway, in order to provide public care to those too poor to even pay taxes to begin with.

This ensures EVERYONE IS COVERED EVERYWHERE, no matter the circumstances.
If you have ZERO insurance and you have to amputate a leg, or get coronary bipass surgery....ITS FREE!

Our standard of care is FAR above yours, WE SPEND LESS GDP PER CAPITA than you for it too!

This will save the US so much money its not funny. Instead of forcing those in the lower income brackets quite literally into poverty, selling their homes / cars / unable to work due to illness, JUST TO PAY for NECESARRY CARE to SAVE THEIR FUCKING LIVES, they will instead be allowed to continue to be a productive member of society.

The burden on the system that this raises is IMMENSE, and you idiots dont seem to get it!

Look at every other country that has this system.....our standards of care are far superior, waiting times are far less, and it costs far less in the long run. Yes, you get a lil bit more tax, but your countries productivity is not hampered by a lack of this system.

Pull your head out of your ass.

Dey terk ourrr freeedom!

Liberals and socialists are always blind to the hidden costs and longer term consequences of their well intended actions.

Then poverty, waste, and recession ensues and they're unable to connect the dots. It doesn't register in their reality as anything other than a convenient failure of capitalism and the free market.

I also want healthcare to be accessible. The best way you can make something accessible is by reducing its costs and nurturing an environment of competition, not by forcing everyone to subsidize a single provider, the government, to hand it out for "free". That will only raise costs for the service, and even though some poor might benefit temporarily, the cost to society will be greater, and those costs will come back to hurt the very poor this bill intends to help.

This healthcare bill is unconstitutional, the Supreme Court ruling is a joke, and it gives government more power to carry out social injustice.

@renatojj the single provider system you're thinking isn't in the current plan (as much as we would of liked to have single-payer, or even a public option, those things were removed.)

You don't care though, because you're just regurgitating some nonsense that you read online or heard from some right-wing propaganda. The actual parameters of the ACA are not what you're describing at all.

Putting aside the tortured "logic" of this horrible Court decision, here's the straight dope:

People who couldn't or wouldn't pay for health insurance are now forced at gunpoint to pay for it.

Boy that's new, before there were limits to federal power. Now for the first time, the federal mafia can force you to buy a product, and if you refuse, they illegally penalize you under the guise of a "tax", an argument so warped even His Earness didn't use it.

If the formerly uninsured don't have the money or refuse to pay for health insurance, someone else pays the tab anyway (you can't easily put 30 million people in prison).

In other words, nothing has changed, except for expanded unconstitutional government powers and huge, economy-destroying tax hikes with 19,000 new IRS agent/enforcers to collect.

If there's one constant in life, it's whenever government gets involved in business, everything gets cheaper and more efficient.

Didja read my post before commenting, because health care is not really the issue here, serfdom is.

We have had a very similar scheme in australia for DECADES. If you dont get private health cover, the govt will tax you to a rate where you would otherwise be paying for it anyway, in order to provide public care to those too poor to even pay taxes to begin with.

So why does anyone there bother to buy private health insurance? Isn't socialied medicine just as good or better than for-profit health care?

This ensures EVERYONE IS COVERED EVERYWHERE, no matter the circumstances.
If you have ZERO insurance and you have to amputate a leg, or get coronary bipass surgery....ITS FREE!

We have that here too. Ever hear of Medicaid? What about the "free" care for the 12 million illegals here (more than HALF of Australia's ENTIRE population)

Our standard of care is FAR above yours, WE SPEND LESS GDP PER CAPITA than you for it too!

You're really going to compare an island of 22 million to the USA? You are FAR from utopia.

https://www.mja.com.au/journal/2007/187/9/challenges-health-and-health-care-australia

Access to (Australian) health services is becoming less equitable. Patients’ out-of-pocket costs have grown 50% in the past decade and now, for some, present a sizeable barrier to needed care.

You don't get it because you're not an American. As an honorary member of the Euro system, you will always see government as the solution to everything, and that's fine for you, but that shit doesn't fly here. The settlers didn't flee England in search of a new world in order to have a gigantic leviathan government coddle us. Fucking Obama and King George III of England look a lot alike these days, maybe it's the crown.

Your assumptions are many and flawed. You assume taxocrats (the American left) want to "save" money. They couldn't care less, we've spent 9 trillion on a failed war on poverty. Liberals measure success by the weight of their good intentions, not results.

In other words, insanity.

If this was really about the 30 million uninsured, there's more than enough revenue just to cover them. But Nooooooo, EVERYONE is now a subject of the King, because this corrupt legal decision isn't about health insurance, it's about control. Tyranny. The end of freedom.

Fuck 'em. November is coming.

The Individual Mandate is an idea from the Heritage Foundation.

>> ^KnivesOut:

@renatojj the single provider system you're thinking isn't in the current planYeah I realized that calling it "single provider" would incite that kind of impertinent retort as soon as I submitted my comment. Even though that's not what the bill is about, it shouldn't take a genius to realize that its real intention is to disrupt the insurance business model, leading to an increase in costs over the years that will make socialized healthcare a more attractive option down the road.



Btw, you should be careful not to bunch up libertarians with "right wing", it just advertises ignorance on your part.

I try to get my news from The Heritage Foundation. I know if something pisses them off then whatever decision had been made was just; not what these greedy global capitalist pigs who would steal your fucking shower curtains if they could - would want.


Upvoting right-wing propaganda lies for all to hear.

The insurance business model that has served so well thus far?>> ^renatojj:

>> ^KnivesOut:
@renatojj the single provider system you're thinking isn't in the current planYeah I realized that calling it "single provider" would incite that kind of impertinent retort as soon as I submitted my comment. Even though that's not what the bill is about, it shouldn't take a genius to realize that its real intention is to disrupt the insurance business model, leading to an increase in costs over the years that will make socialized healthcare a more attractive option down the road.

Btw, you should be careful not to bunch up libertarians with "right wing", it just advertises ignorance on your part.

@KnivesOut the healthcare industry was already highly regulated before Obamacare. While you might be inclined to think the industry was doing poorly despite all the regulation, I'd argue the industry was doing poorly because of so much regulation.

Remember, big businesses that are in bed with government usually lobby for regulation that will protect their interests and discourage competition. It's no different in the healthcare industry.

If we want to benefit the patient, the best route is to dial back all these regulations that guarantee profits for big businesses with the help of government and unleash the market forces that will give patients more choices, choices that will compete with each other pushing prices down, and making healthcare more affordable.

Oh what a crock. "Obamacare" -was- the Heritage Foundation plan for healthcare, up to and including the individual mandate. Fucking hypocritical conservatives were all for this very plan 16 years ago. Until it was successfully passed by a black Democrat...now it's freedom destroying socialism.

I don't particularly like it, but it's better than what we had before. Most of all, it's a damned fucking lie to claim it's socialist in any way.

*controversy

Adding video to channels (Controversy) - requested by MrFisk.

>> ^quantumushroom:

This corrupt, incoherent decision goes way beyond socialized medicine.
This is what you need to take away from this: the Supreme Idiots have now given the federal mafia unlimited power. Fuck your health insurance or anything else, it does not matter because you are no longer free. The pigs can now penalize you for doing something they don't like, and "TAX" your dumb asses when you DON'T do something they command you to do.
We are no longer free, a message lost on whose who didn't give a damn about freedom to begin with. To you ninnyhammers still whining about "greed", we've only spent 9 trillion dollars on a failed "War on Poverty".
Why you lefties born in America (by accident) just don't up and move to Europe I'll never know. They already have a socialist paradise.


Wait, does this mean I can't legally smoke marijuana now?

I don't understand QM. I what point did you think "Yeah I'll just post this and they'll have to see that I'm right, because I say so!"

You're as bad as Richard Dawkins when it comes to convincing people.

November is coming... so hilarious.

Will you promise to leave the country when Obama is re-elected?

Also, your boy Rmoney built a a healthcare plan very similar to the one you're so enraged about. Wow, that must sting.>> ^quantumushroom:

Didja read my post before commenting, because health care is not really the issue here, serfdom is.
We have had a very similar scheme in australia for DECADES. If you dont get private health cover, the govt will tax you to a rate where you would otherwise be paying for it anyway, in order to provide public care to those too poor to even pay taxes to begin with.
So why does anyone there bother to buy private health insurance? Isn't socialied medicine just as good or better than for-profit health care?
This ensures EVERYONE IS COVERED EVERYWHERE, no matter the circumstances.
If you have ZERO insurance and you have to amputate a leg, or get coronary bipass surgery....ITS FREE!
We have that here too. Ever hear of Medicaid? What about the "free" care for the 12 million illegals here (more than HALF of Australia's ENTIRE population)
Our standard of care is FAR above yours, WE SPEND LESS GDP PER CAPITA than you for it too!
You're really going to compare an island of 22 million to the USA? You are FAR from utopia.
https://www.mja.com.au/journal/2007/187/9/challenges-heal
th-and-health-care-australia
Access to (Australian) health services is becoming less equitable. Patients’ out-of-pocket costs have grown 50% in the past decade and now, for some, present a sizeable barrier to needed care.
You don't get it because you're not an American. As an honorary member of the Euro system, you will always see government as the solution to everything, and that's fine for you, but that shit doesn't fly here. The settlers didn't flee England in search of a new world in order to have a gigantic leviathan government coddle us. Fucking Obama and King George III of England look a lot alike these days, maybe it's the crown.
Your assumptions are many and flawed. You assume taxocrats (the American left) want to "save" money. They couldn't care less, we've spent 9 trillion on a failed war on poverty. Liberals measure success by the weight of their good intentions, not results.
In other words, insanity.
If this was really about the 30 million uninsured, there's more than enough revenue just to cover them. But Nooooooo, EVERYONE is now a subject of the King, because this corrupt legal decision isn't about health insurance, it's about control. Tyranny. The end of freedom.
Fuck 'em. November is coming.

Bottom-line: among other things, QM is pointing out that this bill established the precedent of using taxes as a penalty (as opposed to creating revenue), something the Constitution goes to great lengths to forbid government from doing. It's a dangerous precedent because it gives the federal government almost unlimited power to meddle in our lives, something that flies in the face of what a free society should be. If you give government power, they will likely use it. The Supreme Court didn't do its job of observing the Constitution by letting this bill pass.

I think we should all be concerned about that. Unless you're a commie who doesn't give a shit about freedom, in that case go back in time to Soviet Russia motherfucker (I'm just paraphrasing QM here).

This isn't about left versus right, Obama versus Romney (is there a difference?), whether government is screwing up the healthcare industry, or if it's socialism to force everyone to pay for insurance (if it doesn't fulfill @Stormsinger's high and noble standards for socialism, it's at least statist and anti-capitalistic).

You guys carry on now with the shouting and personal attacks.

Thanks to all who commented!

A few extras:

Romneycare: was a state-level experiment, which is permitted. It is also, AFAIK, a failure that had to be bailed out by the feds.

Obamacare is really just Heritage/Romney Creation: rather than try to argue the small stuff...if somehow "HeritageCare" had made it to the Supreme Court, I would have expected it to crumble because of the unconstitutional mandate just the same as it should have under KING Obama.

It's really about expansion of government power: Presumably this law was to stop "freeloaders" of the health care system. If that's the case, what difference will be made insuring 30 million 'deadbeats' at gunpoint, who can't/won't pay a tax/fine any more than they would originally buy health insurance?

Hundreds of businesses got obamacare waivers, creating a dual caste system where the burden of this horrendous law will lay across the backs of the middle class and small businesses. The "evil corporations" that liberals were hoping to punish evaded them once again, in clear violation of the 14th Amendment (equal treatment under the law).

Paltry 'savings' from an extra 500 billion in new taxes: The 11 to 20 million estimated illegals will continue to bankrupt our hospitals via "free" emergency room visits.

Will you promise to leave the country when Obama is re-elected? I don't have to leave America. Unless obama is given a bus-ticket back to chicago come November, America will leave us. It already has.

Romney won't fix it: The end of the Republic is already on its way. Romney may forestall it a little while, but it's coming.

How is this any different than being required to pay for auto insurance? Or for that matter, having to pay penalties for any crime you commit? Penalties are applied all the time when people go against the law. Couldn't the argument be made that the government is forcing you to not murder people?