I imagine that someone better schooled in philosophy will come along and explain how Fight Clubs philosophy is simplistic and derivative.

I really don't care. This was probably the first movie that made me look at my life and truly question what I wanted out of it.

It's a great movie. And now I have to watch it again. And for that @alien_concept, I thank you.

>> ^ChaosEngine:

I imagine that someone better schooled in philosophy will come along and explain how Fight Clubs philosophy is simplistic and derivative.
I really don't care. This was probably the first movie that made me look at my life and truly question what I wanted out of it.
It's a great movie. And now I have to watch it again. And for that @alien_concept, I thank you.


Oh you're very welcome I think that anyone who argues that a philosophy is too simplistic has a rod up their arse to be honest. Surely the best kind of philosophy is one that the masses can understand and relate to, which Fight Club and in fact Chuck Palahniuk's other novels have in buckets.

>> ^ChaosEngine:

I imagine that someone better schooled in philosophy will come along and explain how Fight Clubs philosophy is simplistic and derivative.
I really don't care. This was probably the first movie that made me look at my life and truly question what I wanted out of it.
It's a great movie. And now I have to watch it again. And for that @alien_concept, I thank you.


Here here, still my favorite movie of all time after dozens upon dozens of viewings I still like it. I know the arguments for an against the various philosophies espoused in it, I don't live my life by them. I think it's a great movie, and that's really all I ever ask for out of things.

You're not how many power points you have. You're not your sifted videos. You're not your playlists. You're not your star points. You're not your username. You're not your personal queue. You're not your anniversary. You're not your unsifted videos.

... but you're still going to upvote this video. You're going to upvote this comment too. Or these guys are going to take your balls. They're going to send one to the New York Times, one to the LA Times press-release style. Look, the people you are after are the people you depend on. We cook your meals, we haul your trash, we connect your calls, we drive your ambulances. We guard you while you sleep. Do not fuck with us.

>> ^heathen:

You're not how many power points you have. You're not your sifted videos. You're not your playlists. You're not your star points. You're not your username. You're not your personal queue. You're not your anniversary. You're not your unsifted videos.
... but you're still going to upvote this video. You're going to upvote this comment too. Or these guys are going to take your balls. They're going to send one to the New York Times, one to the LA Times press-release style. Look, the people you are after are the people you depend on. We cook your meals, we haul your trash, we connect your calls, we drive your ambulances. We guard you while you sleep. Do not fuck with us.


Oooo I was so tempted not to upvote that comment you troll you, but it was impossible not to. Good stuff

Keeping warm at night is essential for a hunter/gather species.

As a pretentious student of philosophy, I feel compelled to point out that "derivative" and "simplistic" aren't really valid criticisms. there's nothing wrong with being derived from something else, or indeed being simple. Perhaps "overly simplistic" could be employed, if it doesn't represent the reality of a complex issue, but to be honest, I think the flaws in Fight Club's life philosophies are intentional, and add to the movie's artistic merit. Furthermore, if it inspires people to rethink their existence and what they want from it, it very much succeeded in doing what the author intended (apart from filling his bank balance too, obviously).

That's such a simplistic and derivative thing to say.
>> ^Locque:

As a pretentious student of philosophy, I feel compelled to point out that "derivative" and "simplistic" aren't really valid criticisms. there's nothing wrong with being derived from something else, or indeed being simple. Perhaps "overly simplistic" could be employed, if it doesn't represent the reality of a complex issue, but to be honest, I think the flaws in Fight Club's life philosophies are intentional, and add to the movie's artistic merit. Furthermore, if it inspires people to rethink their existence and what they want from it, it very much succeeded in doing what the author intended (apart from filling his bank balance too, obviously).

Anyone who likes the philosophy of Fight Club is a Marxist.

No, really. I'm not kidding.

If you think Karl Marx and all his associated works were some sort of Satanic verse, perhaps your affinity for Fight Club should make you rethink that assessment, because it's essentially one and the same.

Without revealing too much, there is serious.... shall we say, duality.... to the philosophy of this film. Too be honest, the lines blurred to a degree where I can not be completely sure what the author intended it all to mean. A great film all the same. I should probably read the book.

>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:

Without revealing too much, there is serious.... shall we say, duality.... to the philosophy of this film. Too be honest, the lines blurred to a degree where I can not be completely sure what the author intended it all to mean. A great film all the same. I should probably read the book.


My recollection is that the film is better than the book, although it has been ... hang on.... (sweet monkey jesus!) 10 years since I read/watched it last.

That is depressing.

>> ^NetRunner:

Anyone who likes the philosophy of Fight Club is a Marxist.
No, really. I'm not kidding.
If you think Karl Marx and all his associated works were some sort of Satanic verse, perhaps your affinity for Fight Club should make you rethink that assessment, because it's essentially one and the same.


So if we agree with a main premise of the movie that "we are not our labels" then we are necessarily labeled marxists?

For me, the defining moment in Fight club was when they were starting the whole club out, fighting in a parking lot, and a man in a suit watches Tyler beat another guy to the ground. His response to seeing it happen? "Can I be next?"

The main premise of the movie was the alienation inherent in capitalist societies.

The quote isn't "we are not our labels", it's:

You are not your job. You're not how much money you have in the bank. You're not the car you drive. You're not the contents of your wallet. You're not your fucking khakis. You're the all-singing, all-dancing crap of the world.

I feel like this film is more complicated than just an anti commercialist screed. Ed Norton's nameless character chooses an extremely handsome, charming and fashionable movie star to be the vessel for his anti-commercial, anti-corporate persona. Is this done on purpose to suggest some kind of internal contradiction? Also, his group eventually becomes a fascist and violent paramilitary operation. In the end, the narrator kills off his imaginary friend. So what are we to make of Tyler Durden? To me, the film feels like it's also about ego, masculinity, extremism, growing up, the need to belong and the intoxicating effects of power, as seen through the eyes of a cheerfully misanthropic Chuck Palaniuk. Whatever Palaniuk and Fincher's intentions were, I do love this movie. I bet the book would clear some of this up for me. Anyone who has read the book want to address these issues?

@dystopianfuturetoday I guess the word Marxist still scares the bejeezus out of people.

Yes, it's more complex than an anti-commercialist screed, but then so is Marx's critique of capitalism.

Yes, by the end it's clear that this philosophy has led a band of proletariat men to wage a violent revolution against the hierarchy that enslaves them...again, just like Marx said they should.

To a younger me, the way I would have described the theme of the movie is freedom. We're not talking about bogus libertarian freedom, but that left-wing style freedom, the kind borne from the insight that "things you own end up owning you."

To a decade older me, it's not just a vague philosophy without a name anymore, it's the Marxist critique of capitalism. And the stuff at the end about violent revolution led by a charismatic (and fake!) dictator seems like a screenwriter's critique of the rest of Marxism.

It's been a while since I've seen Fight Club, but I kinda remember that Eddie Norton looked horrified at the very end, not triumphant. I think he'd finally had his dreams shattered, by the very act of realizing them.

Yes, I guess my point is, while i agree with most of what someone named jesus christ supposedly said, calling me a "Christian" wouldn't be terribly accurate, and would have a tendency to associate me with something more than just ideas.

and Karl Marx wasn't the first, present, or last person to think rationally.

perhaps Marx should sue for copyright infringement. ?



>> ^NetRunner:

The main premise of the movie was the alienation inherent in capitalist societies.
The quote isn't "we are not our labels", it's:

You are not your job. You're not how much money you have in the bank. You're not the car you drive. You're not the contents of your wallet. You're not your fucking khakis. You're the all-singing, all-dancing crap of the world.

I get your point, I'm just saying that America has this irrational antipathy towards the name Marx, the label Marxism, and socialism and the like. All people know of it is the evil caricature and the demagoguery, and nothing about the real ideas behind it, thanks to the way it's been erased from our culture through 1984-style propaganda and demonization.

The Fight Club/Marx connection only really clicked for me when I watched this clip, and I wanted to try to use that realization as an opportunity to say "here, buried in your fondness for Fight Club is what Marxism is really about" in an effort to deprogram my fellow countrymen...

Or instead we can just focus on how wrong it was for me to dare try to label people, even as a rhetorical gambit to start a deeper conversation.

>> ^criticalthud:

Yes, I guess my point is, while i agree with most of what someone named jesus christ supposedly said, calling me a "Christian" wouldn't be terribly accurate, and would have a tendency to associate me with something more than just ideas.
and Karl Marx wasn't the first, present, or last person to think rationally.
perhaps Marx should sue for copyright infringement. ?

oh yes i get your point as well and find it quite agreeable. just having some fun.

i've always appreciated the idea that true communism and totalitarianism could not coexist, and thus an unfair perception has been given to that word as well.

the root of communism we like quite well when we have a great community.

>> ^NetRunner: