This is pretty damn *dark.

Of course having this happen in the same job with the same experience/performance is simply criminal.

As much as you can cite Wiki, the "eliminate the variables" scenario for first world countries makes a video like this crazy:
"The "Choice" Theory

There have been studies published which have shown that once variables have been removed, pay for men and women with the same experience and education is virtually identical"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_pay_for_women

Going further, "In a free market capitalist economy this wage gap would quickly be exploited. Corporations could hire only females and return the reduced labor costs to share holders."

So unless you're going to take a trip down the very perilous pay equity route (as compared to pay equality), is there really a need for such an insulting PSA?

Adding video to channels (Dark) - requested by Krupo.

That statistic is a gross oversimplification of gender inequality. As far as I'm concerned, it's bullshit. There are still a number of gender based discriminatory practices, but you can't simply tag a number on them. I'm talking about encouraging more women to enter the sciences, encouraging more women to take their careers as seriously as their male counterparts (regarding career-family prioritization), and encouraging more men to take a greater role in child-rearing responsibilities.

*nochannel

Definitely accents from *Downunder

*NSFW
*Femme
*Commercial
*Politics
*Dark

Video is already flagged NSFW - ignoring nsfw request by BoneyD.

I find meatbag BoneyD to be an inadequate command-giver - ignoring all requests by BoneyD.

(Lets try that again)
*nochannel

Definitely accents from *Downunder

*Femme
*Commercial
*Politics
*Dark

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Try again.
Accents are nordic.

Downvoted for the abuse of statistics, etc, as Krupo and MaxWilder already pointed out. If you pay a woman less for the same performance at the same job with the same experience, then yes, that's asinine.

But just because women on a national scale are paid less than men doesn't men there's any discrimination. It means they choose to work part time and put families first, choose to avoid high paying high-tech fields, choose to avoid working on oil rigs, etc...

I believe accents are Dutch

>> ^rychan:
Downvoted for the abuse of statistics, etc, as Krupo and MaxWilder already pointed out. If you pay a woman less for the same performance at the same job with the same experience, then yes, that's asinine.
But just because women on a national scale are paid less than men doesn't men there's any discrimination. It means they choose to work part time and put families first, choose to avoid high paying high-tech fields, choose to avoid working on oil rigs, etc...


I really wish a course in statistics were required at the highschool level. Given the amount of random statistics thrown at us each day, I think highschools could afford to teach something that will actually be useful in everyday life (unlike, for example, PE, which was a complete waste of time... at least for me).

It's just an stupid statistics game. Once a bunch of white old dudes retire the executive pay equity will look better on average. Why can't they just look at one profession. In fact, female engineers earn much higher salaries. There is also an over representation of women in executive jobs as compared to the companies employee makeup.

I hope all these number games backfire in the end.

From a sociology of science angle, in the fields in which I was once specialized, there tended to be a pro-social bias. If one explanation is regarded as socially desirable, there will be a strong push from one side to emphasize those studies, and the other side simply won't care enough to correct the bias. Graduate students tend to pick up on this and conform their career paths accordingly.

... what's a pro-social bias?

teach something that will actually be useful in everyday life (unlike, for example, PE, which was a complete waste of time

Hear Hear, abolish compulsory PE, a waste of both time and money.

Yeah, the statistic thing is oversimplified, but claiming that the problem is mostly the fault of women and their failure to take their careers as seriously as men and to study the sciences is an oversimplification and a misconception. Women ARE actually being paid less for the same jobs with the same qualifications and the same educations.

Besides, your brains are a third the size of ours. It's science.

(Name that movie!)

>> ^MaxWilder:
That statistic is a gross oversimplification of gender inequality. As far as I'm concerned, it's bullshit. There are still a number of gender based discriminatory practices, but you can't simply tag a number on them. I'm talking about encouraging more women to enter the sciences, encouraging more women to take their careers as seriously as their male counterparts (regarding career-family prioritization), and encouraging more men to take a greater role in child-rearing responsibilities.

>> ^thepinky:
Yeah, the statistic thing is oversimplified, but claiming that the problem is mostly the fault of women and their failure to take their careers as seriously as men and to study the sciences is an oversimplification and a misconception. Women ARE actually being paid less for the same jobs with the same qualifications and the same educations.

It is already illegal to pay women less for the exact same position, qualifications, experience, performance, etc. :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Pay_Act_of_1963

Difficult to enforce, obviously, since an employer can argue that one person merited higher pay.

Also nobody said it was the "fault" of women for earning less. Also, women account for 80%+ of consumer discretionary spending! So I don't think women are so much being oppressed as entering into arrangements where they'd rather take care of their family than work.

>> ^Krupo:There have been studies published which have shown that once variables have been removed, pay for men and women with the same experience and education is virtually identical"

The problem with these numbers is that these "variables" are not equally applied.

Some number crunching on funding and tenure applications for Professors in Universities, where we have lots of public information about their work and the impact of their work. Women need to be objectively twice as competent in their publication record to be considered equally competent as their male counterparts in terms of their likelihood of receiving funding or tenure.

Apply this across the whole of society and any assessment of "work performance" as an unbiased "variable" quickly falls apart.

Also consider that in industries which have a strong sexual bias the bias has a strong effect on earning potential. One textbook example is bank tellers, who were at one time all male, and they made a decent living, the profession shifted to female dominance, and AT THE SAME TIME the average wage dropped substantially. One can certainly argue about causation in this case, but the correlation is strong, and seems to apply across the board.

It is also reasonable to consider that women, being informed actors, choose, because society does not highly value their work, to do different things for a living, or prioritize work in different ways, which is still a consequence of a sexist social valuation, even if the choice of how to act in the face of it is still up to the individual.

What do you mean variables aren't applied equally? Seriously, I can't quite parse what you're claiming. That researchers fabricated data?

Also, men are more likely to fall on the extremes, either extremely stupid or extremely smart, see
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/science/article2512722.ece

So while it might be the case that there are more men than women making $10 million a year, it might also be the case that there's fewer women stupid enough to become criminals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Lie_with_Statistics

>> ^rychan:
What do you mean variables aren't applied equally? Seriously, I can't quite parse what you're claiming. That researchers fabricated data?

If, as the evidence suggests, people (even women) systematically undervalue the contributions of women, then women will receive promotions etc at a far lower rate then equally competent men. If a women works her whole life and is left behind for advancement while significantly less qualified men are promoted then we have a multiplying effect where women have less "experience" because they have been systematically denied it on the basis of a baseless cultural bias.

You can say "We should promote this guy, since he was regional manager for four years", but the chance that a significantly more competent women would be passed up for the pre-qualifying regional manager position in the first place is very high.

>> ^Krupo:
... what's a pro-social bias?


Prosocial or pro-social behavior is behavior intended to contribute to the well-being of others or society in general.

My argument is that the perception of explanations as having varying degrees of social desirability causes some scientists and journalists to predictably preference some explanations beyond what a neutral evaluation of the data would warrant.

Thanks Krupo, that Wikipedia link certainly has opened my eyes. For those of you who were too lazy to read the article before upvoting his comment, here's a quote:

"Two questions naturally arise: (1) is there actually a wage gap disparity and, if so, where? The answer is no. Now Tits or GTFO.(2) why and how has it arisen or maintained itself? I already told you, the answer is no. *slap* I ONLY DO THIS BECAUSE I LOVE YOU *slap*. Over time, two points of view have availed themselves: one that credits the difference to questions of personal choice, and another that ties the disparity to continuing or vestigial bias or discrimination."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_pay_for_women#Gender_Wage_Equity_in_the_United_States

This video/commercial set out to shock in order to inform. Was too repulsive.

You couldn't get me to say those things to her. Even if you payed me a lot.



She's to cute, and polite.

>> ^MaxWilder:
That statistic is a gross oversimplification of gender inequality. As far as I'm concerned, it's bullshit. There are still a number of gender based discriminatory practices, but you can't simply tag a number on them. I'm talking about encouraging more women to enter the sciences, encouraging more women to take their careers as seriously as their male counterparts (regarding career-family prioritization), and encouraging more men to take a greater role in child-rearing responsibilities.

>> ^thepinky:
Yeah, the statistic thing is oversimplified, but claiming that the problem is mostly the fault of women and their failure to take their careers as seriously as men and to study the sciences is an oversimplification and a misconception. Women ARE actually being paid less for the same jobs with the same qualifications and the same educations.
Besides, your brains are a third the size of ours. It's science.
(Name that movie!)


Sorry, Anchorwoman, but the studies I've seen only point to discrimination in the schooling and career choice areas of income determination. I'm sure there is more to it, but even so that's where we need to focus. I firmly believe that women should have every opportunity and encouragement available to men. I think we're getting there, but we still have work to do.

>> ^Birdman:
I believe accents are Dutch

As are the subtitles.

Tags for this video have been changed from 'insulting, swearing, income, wage, careerwomen, equal pay commercial' to 'insulting, swearing, income, wage, career women, equal pay, colleague, work, dutch, 00s' - edited by Eklek

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