Channel 4 - Monday 17th September 2007
Dispatches investigates the violence and intimidation facing Muslims who convert to Christianity in Britain. Dispatches reporter Antony Barnett meets former Muslims who now live under the threat of reprisals from their former communities. Many are still living in fear.
Constitutional_Patriotsays...

I normally stay away from the religious material because after my research of all religions in the world, I've determined that religion is merely a tool to control groups of people based on flimsy belief systems.
While there is a lot of good in the various religious sects of the world, I believe that ultimately religion breeds hatred between one class or another. This film exemplifies some of the hatred being bred and the view that anyone outside the religion (Islamic in this case, but applies to almost all) is inferior. This is an identical view that the Nazi's had of any race outside of thiers.

It could be said however that religion "keeps good and/or some bad people in-line, or proper" - at least on the surface but there will always be extremists in any faction. You don't have to be religious to know right from wrong.

I am glad to see that more and more people are coming to the same conclusion as I have come to these days however I continue to experience a bit of hatred from some of the so called "lovers of life" in the Christian community because I don't have some mystical faith that they feel they possess. I see it in the form of hatred, hypocrisy, vengefullness, and for the mere pleasure of sharing a group-based feeling against someone else.. I've seen many that seem to enjoy having a common hatred towards another person and will usually pretend to be nice while performing acts that undermine the individual that thinks differently from them.

That being said, this is all some good examples of why we have the separation of church and state in the three main branches of my country's government. It's unfortunate that even with these rules in place that the religion movements are constantly testing this rule in some form or another and even the president has unconstitutionally awarded millions in religious affilliation grants.

Religion is a series of personal beliefs and it's exactly that - personal. A person's spiritual beliefs should not be forced upon others and any view of superiority by a group is an illusion that will only end up in violence.

Anyways, there's my rant on religion. Take it however you want.
Thanks for the post.

Doc_Msays...

Since every religion I know of teaches that people will fail to follow it or at least follow it very poorly, you cannot judge any (of these) religions based on the behavior of their members. It sounds like a cop-out, but it makes sense when you think about it.
Christianity for example teaches that all people are sinners and by nature will fail to live up to the expectations of God. In other words, their actions will not coincide with their religion. (In Christianity, belief in Jesus and His sacrifice exempts one from the consequences of this failure).

Too many people make blanket negative statements about religions based on the actions of small groups of them. Given what I've said above, these statements are not justly made.

In response to saying that religion is only a tool for controlling people?
That's assuming that they are all in fact false.

I'll prop you on this one though:
Religion is a series of personal beliefs and it's exactly that - personal. A person's spiritual beliefs should not be forced upon others and any view of superiority by a group is an illusion that will only end up in violence.
Too true. How long will it take for people to realize that forcing religion just does not work?

8693says...

It's easy to marginalize religion as simply a personal belief but what you fail to realize is that no matter what religion or non-religion one believes in it determines ones world view. One can have a secular world view, another can have a Muslim world view, another has a Christian world view and so on. If you look at religion as simply religion it's easy to call it personal but religion starts based on a set of belief, and these beliefs lead to a world view. I don't know what you "religion" or "non-religion" is but you have a set of beliefs and these beliefs have led to a particular world view. Now you said:

"Religion is a series of personal beliefs and it's exactly that - personal. A person's spiritual beliefs should not be forced upon others and any view of superiority by a group is an illusion that will only end up in violence."

Would it be fair to say that you're imposing your beliefs (of religion is personal)on those that have religion? Just because you put "spiritual" before "belief" does not discount the fact that it's still a "belief." By saying that religion is simply a personal belief and should be left that way, is a belief that you are imposing on others.

I'm not defending the actions of religious fanatics but I also want to point out that religious non-belief is still a belief and can be just as fanatical. I'm also saying that the very thing you accuse religious people of doing (forced upon others) aren't you doing the same? If you're saying that you're just sharing your beliefs, couldn't that be the same for religious people? That is all.

Constitutional_Patriotsays...

Yes, that's the conundrum of the discussion from this point of view. While I don't want people to take it as if I'm pushing my beliefs, some may see it as if I am doing so just by discussing my beliefs. In my opinion everyone should be able to think for themselves and make their own determination based on sound reasoning. My problem with religion is that many do force their beliefs upon others, they all claim that they are correct, most of them claim that they are superior to others in some form or another, most claim that if you don't believe what they believe then you are doomed to spend an eternity in agonizing pain in some god-forsaken existence so you should be considered a lower form of life in this existence.

Just the mere ranting of my thoughts on the subject can be taken as if I'm pushing my beliefs on others, yet I don't think that anyone will convert because of my beliefs for I don't promise paradise or put the fear of eternal damnation if you don't agree with me. Also, I don't really care if anyone agrees with me on this because as I've stated before.. my beliefs are personal. Take it however you wish.. you have the freedom to use your own mind to make your own determinations.

Fear is commonly used as a tool by many organizations throughout the centuries and is thriving in many today.

Discuss...

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