Here's a infographic for the US..http://www.dosenation.com/listing.php?id=6825

and here's a marijuana use chart for the world..
http://iloveweed.net/wp-content/uploads/HLIC/a3b4b7c8d0c9a54373cb3f304bca0054.gif

You got my vote.

should work now>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:

Not working. "No valid media file(s) found."

I would support this simply for its effect on possession arrests, which are presently skewed and unjust.

Looks like it has a good chance of passing.

What is the conservative angle on this? Can they support individual liberty and state's rights while condemning this measure? This should be interesting.

I'm also very curious what Obama's reaction will be if it passes. I would hope, at the very least, that he leaves it alone. I want to see how legalization is handled there and what its real effects are without the feds messing with it.

My hope is that this passes and it has a domino effect in other states. I'm in Canada where the majority of the public would support legislation like this but our political leaders are threatened by the US ambassador every time the issue comes up. If it becomes normalized in th US it will then be politically feasible to legalize or decriminalize it here in Canada. So thank you California.

The conservatives aren't very swift when it comes to updating their message.

They think it would increase crime, increase the use of all drugs, lower productivity, etc.

The largest problem that the end of prohibition might pose is fewer inmates mixing paint and producing army helmets in prison factories. Think of all the money the for profit prisons will lose with fewer workers!

Sure wish we'd focus on that same-sex marriage thing in California before jumping into new territory. I suppose it's to be expected from Dems seeing how they seemed to forget about the war in Iraq and the Patriot Act since HCR became all the rage.

Makes me wonder if my drug dealing friends will start looking for coke to push.

@blankfist:

True. Too true.

Iraq and Afghanistan have fallen off the radar.

(...geez, this blankie guy is kind of smart....)

@rougy. Way off the radar. Way off. I'm waiting for the Dems to label me a wing-nut for pointing out the routine hypocrisy around their fleeting outrage against the Patriot Act and the war.

@blankfist:

Not gonna happen, Kubric. Way past that point.

Fleeting outrage? Our fleeting outrage about bombing the fuck out of a defenseless country is equivalent to your outrage regarding the HCR (Medical Insurance Reform) bill?

Fleeting?

Kubric, don't mistake my outrage, and my people's outrage, for what you don't see on TV.

@rougy, I'm talking about a desire for some consistency. So many participating in the two-party system are fence sitters waiting for the group to go in a direction they can follow. If that means war is bad, then war is bad.

My dislike for HCR is dwarfed by my absolute hatred for the wars and potential loss of rights the Patriot Act presents. I'd take universal health care any day if it meant ending the US hegemonic existence in 130 countries abroad.

I'm very consistent. Why can't the Dems and Repubs be?

>> ^blankfist:

@<a rel="nofollow" href="http://videosift.com/member/rougy" title="member since June 3rd, 2007" class="profilelink">rougy, I'm talking about a desire for some consistency. So many participating in the two-party system are fence sitters waiting for the group to go in a direction they can follow. If that means war is bad, then war is bad.
My dislike for HCR is dwarfed by my absolute hatred for the wars and potential loss of rights the Patriot Act presents. I'd take universal health care any day if it meant ending the US hegemonic existence in 130 countries abroad.
I'm very consistent. Why can't the Dems and Repubs be?



War bad? That's not what my G.I. Joe tells me!

I hope you guys realize that the activities of our government don't follow the MSN news cycle. Just because it's not on the front page doesn't mean it's not being worked on.
>> ^blankfist:

@<a rel="nofollow" href="http://videosift.com/member/rougy" title="member since June 3rd, 2007" class="profilelink">rougy. Way off the radar. Way off. I'm waiting for the Dems to label me a wing-nut for pointing out the routine hypocrisy around their fleeting outrage against the Patriot Act and the war.

That's a cop out, Longde. That feels a lot like, "just because you can't see angels doesn't mean they don't exist."

*controversy *law

Adding video to channels (Controversy, Law) - requested by MrFisk.

>> ^blankfist:

Sure wish we'd focus on that same-sex marriage thing in California before jumping into new territory. I suppose it's to be expected from Dems seeing how they seemed to forget about the war in Iraq and the Patriot Act since HCR became all the rage.



We already had a recent battle on same-sex marriage and we clearly lost, fair and square.

It seems like we don't have to put other excellent legislation on hold while we wait for the younger generation with more permissive attitudes toward marriage rights to grow up.

This legislation is a completely unfair attack on the livelihood of violent transnational Mexican gangs who keep our cities vibrant. Vote no!

>> ^chilaxe:

>> ^blankfist:
Sure wish we'd focus on that same-sex marriage thing in California before jumping into new territory. I suppose it's to be expected from Dems seeing how they seemed to forget about the war in Iraq and the Patriot Act since HCR became all the rage.


We already had a recent battle on same-sex marriage and we clearly lost, fair and square.
It seems like we don't have to put other excellent legislation on hold while we wait for the younger generation with more permissive attitudes toward marriage rights to grow up.


@chilaxe, who had that recent battle? Who lost? I didn't lose. I didn't fight any battle. I voted in some circus democracy that put gays in the back of the bus. You agree with that process, do you? I sure as hell don't. Any system that can take away the rights of the individual is corrupt on its face.

^ Recessions are the best time to strike down prohibitions, especially if tax revenue and enforcement costs can be used as arguments. This could be the best political climate for legalization thus far.

Besides, I doubt the gay rights movement is going away (nor should it). Next time I'd like to see the LDS (and any other religious organization) threatened with loss of their tax-exempt status if they get involved.

>> ^blankfist:

@rougy, I'm talking about a desire for some consistency. So many participating in the two-party system are fence sitters waiting for the group to go in a direction they can follow. If that means war is bad, then war is bad.

[snip]

I'm very consistent. Why can't the Dems and Repubs be?


Let's start with this: you're an individual, they're nation-spanning organizations with millions of people shaping how they operate.

Individual Democrats disagree on things. Individual Republicans disagree on things.

That said, I don't know what lack of consistency you're talking about.

The Democratic platform included a withdrawal from Iraq, "winning the necessary war in Afghanistan", and a general return to the use of diplomacy as the US's primary way of influencing other nations. It also said that they would seek to reform (not repeal) Patriot, so as to make it more consistent with our "tradition" of civil liberties.

They have been consistent in their approach to those subjects, though they've had varying degrees of success.

I don't agree with every plank of the platform. I don't like the phrasing of trying to "win" in Afghanistan. I want Patriot repealed. I wish we were getting out of Iraq at a faster pace. I wanted a public option in HCR. I fully expected them to have done banking re-regulation last year (they didn't).

Democrats still oppose the war in Iraq. Democrats are fairly divided over Afghanistan, though all of us agree that we want the conflict to end there as quickly as possible, or more importantly with the smallest loss of life we can manage.

>> ^geo321:

Here's a infographic for the US..http://www.dosenation.com/listing.php?id=6825
and here's a marijuana use chart for the world..
http://iloveweed.net/wp-content/uploads/HLIC/a3b4b7c8d0c9a543
73cb3f304bca0054.gif


Isn't it interesting to see how low the Netherlands ranks in the marijuana use charts, even though the use and sale are allowed here. 7% of the population smokes compared to 13% in the USA.

@NetRunner, I can make this real simple for you.

If Democrats were so fervently against the war, as you seem to imply, then why isn't the war over? It's not like the Dems haven't had a majority and the presidency for the past year, so I'd like to ask why HCR takes political precedence over ending the war? Were the bank bailouts and big corporation bailouts more important than "reforming" the Patriot Act to your party as well?

^ Do Libertarians agree on everything?

Parties are just groups of people, all of whom have individual priorities and stances on issues. Even if those involved remain consistent the overall party message will shift depending on who's in the spotlight and what the media decides to focus on.

^I'm not part of the Libertarian Party, so I couldn't tell you. Regardless, that's a distraction and has little to do with the point above, right?

Why isn't the war over? Why hasn't the Patriot Act been repealed? Is HCR and the bailouts more important? I don't buy the Dem Party wanted to rewrite the Patriot Act, because if you had a pulse when the damn thing was being shoved down our America's throat, it seemed like the Dems were against it. I suppose that was just partisan BS.

@blankfist, and I'll make my reply simpler, since you seemed to not understand the first time: the Democratic base isn't mad about the plan Obama has laid out for Iraq. Many think it could be better, but we're not going to go to war with Obama over a full withdrawal in 2010 vs. a full withdrawal in 2011.

That doesn't mean we love the Iraq war now, as you seem to imply.

The base thinks the plan the liberal Democrats laid out was a step in the right direction, and weren't happy that it failed due to unanimous Republican opposition as well as a lack of support from the "centrists".

The plan is to try to get better Democrats elected, like Jennifer Brunner here in Ohio, so we can get our reforms through, not piss and moan and say "all Democrats suck".

That doesn't mean we love the Patriot Act, as you seem to imply.

PS: Bank bailouts happened in the previous congress, when a Bush veto made changing Patriot impossible.

^blankfist:
I'm not part of the Libertarian Party, so I couldn't tell you. Regardless, that's a distraction and has little to do with the point above, right?

Your specific party affiliation wasn't the point. Individual Libertarians differ on specific issues, regardless of the official platform. Where they agree on an outcome, they may disagree on the best methods.

The same is true of any group involving both multiple people and multiple issues. Democrats seem to mostly agree on the desirability of leaving Iraq, but the questions of "how" and "how fast" are points of debate even within the party. Some want a gradual exit while others would rather pick everything up and pull out today. I'd agree that the desire to be reelected is weighted too heavily in the decisions of many, but it isn't the only factor diminishing party focus.

I just don't think it's realistic to expect everyone within a political party to always agree. They may get their funding from the same source and lean in a similar direction, but government itself is still just a collection of individual people with individual motivations.

>> ^blankfist:

Sure wish we'd focus on that same-sex marriage thing in California before jumping into new territory. I suppose it's to be expected from Dems seeing how they seemed to forget about the war in Iraq and the Patriot Act since HCR became all the rage.


I don't see what in the hell you are talking about.

Richard Lee has been pushing for legalisation since 1992. Is he supposed to give up his personal decade-long fight because of Prop 8? Or because we're not out of Iraq or Afghanistan?

And where in this video or anywhere online does it say he's a Democrat?

You're off into la-la land with this one Blanky. Mr.Lee has absolutely fuckall to do with national politics. He's a dude trying to destroy the Orwellian prohibition that currently incarcerates tens of thousands of people, and laws that destroy lives and piss away our states budget on a daily basis. I thought libertarians would feel good about that.

@volumptuous,

Who is Richard Lee? If it has anything to do with the video, I didn't watch it. The vote for legalizing marijuana, however awesome it is (I'll celebrate with some fine government taxed weed and movie night with Pink Floyd the Wall), has to do with a direct democratic process in a very, very blue state; that's what I was commenting on.

Same-sex marriage bans in California was another example where direct democracy stripped the rights of the minority. That black eye should've been a wake up to the statist apologists, but it did nothing. People were outraged but in the end they shrugged and thought, "well, it's what the people want." and moved on.

Legalize and we Californians can smoke our way from under the crushing deficit.

This is a bill supporting fully legalized marijuana? Other then for medicinal purposes???

So licensed growers and joints available for purchase at local shops?

This is huge! I don't see the problem with this, marijuana being far less addictive then cigarettes.

I also don't see how this should lower productivity. Unless workers show up to work stoned. But that should be against company policy just like showing up drunk is.

Hey, if this frees the thousands and thousands of Californians going to jail every year for possession then it can only be good.

Just think, it could be your sons life that is saved if he doesn't go to jail for 6 months. Going to jail for 6 months can seriously change someone.

Don't even get me started on the 20 year sentences mandated by the 3 strikes rules...

Good luck, neighbours.

Also, @blankfist while it's sad, disgusting and pathetic to discriminate based on sexual preference, and though that is a big issue, it does not affect nearly as many people as marijuana laws do. Don't worry /b/ro our parents will die before long and we can let the fags do what they want lol !