Oh. . . so the allegation is that the ATF was holding back in taking down petty gun runners so they could gather evidence to take down the entire organization. The same sort of tactic that the FBI often employs in fighting organized crime within the US.

I get sick of these deceptive video titles. Obviously there's a huge difference between committing a crime and failing to stop it. I was all set to rage against the ATF, now what?

How to end the drug war and take power away from organized crime: decriminalize drugs.

I don't understand what evidence they need to gather...just take them out. It's not like we care about international law anyways.

>> ^entr0py:

Oh. . . so the allegation is that the ATF was holding back in taking down petty gun runners so they could gather evidence to take down the entire organization. The same sort of tactic that the FBI often employs in fighting organized crime within the US.


No, that's not the allegation, that's just the excuse the ATF are using now it's public.

If that had been their actual intention they would have been working with Mexican officials to track the guns once they crossed the border, then arresting those in possesion of the guns, and making cases against them.

As stated in the video "It was all kept secret from Mexico".

>> ^entr0py:

Oh. . . so the allegation is that the ATF was holding back in taking down petty gun runners so they could gather evidence to take down the entire organization. The same sort of tactic that the FBI often employs in fighting organized crime within the US.
I get sick of these deceptive video titles. Obviously there's a huge difference between committing a crime and failing to stop it. I was all set to rage against the ATF, now what?


The ATF SHOULD have confiscated these guns. It is their job. Human beings died! Human! *Expletive!* Beings! (And no, it does not matter if they are drugrunners or whatever, they are HUMAN BEINGS!)

There is the picture of one American at the end who died... but Mexicans are people too, sound strange, I know. Where there was the one picture of one American there should also have been the epicture of every single lowlife, innocent bystander, drug runner and junkie next to the one American. Because all of those lifes which should have gone on, ideally in prison for the criminals and happily alive for the innocents, are now no more!

>> ^entr0py:
Oh. . . so the allegation is that the ATF was holding back in taking down petty gun runners so they could gather evidence to take down the entire organization. The same sort of tactic that the FBI often employs in fighting organized crime within the US.
I get sick of these deceptive video titles. Obviously there's a huge difference between committing a crime and failing to stop it. I was all set to rage against the ATF, now what?


"ATF claims to hate 'beaners and spics'"

>> ^Fusionaut:

How to end the drug war and take power away from organized crime: decriminalize drugs.


No. Decriminalization of drugs will have very little affect on organized crime.

Decriminalization is simply moving the common citizen's punishment from being caught using illegal drugs from criminal to civil - it does nothing about the supply chain for these drugs. In many cases, criminal punishment will still exist for anyone falling under the growing/producing, selling, or transporting category.

But decriminalization isn't completely ineffectual; it will dramatically raise the quality of life of users and provide an official avenue for addicts to get help before hitting rock bottom (although it may just open up the avenue for people/organizations to step into rather than actively providing.)

To disrupt the organized crimes' profit from illegal drugs, you have to provide other sources of these drugs. Pure and simply, this is supply and demand. There will always be some demand.

^ The proper course to take is full LEGALIZATION.

Regulated, but fully legal sale and possession of all drugs is the only way to break the back of these cartels. It will also solve the prison overcrowding issue and provide a nice tax income for local governments who are currently being squeezed to death.

Anybody who is still against the legalization of recreational drugs is simply ignorant or idiotic.

>> ^MaxWilder:

^ The proper course to take is full LEGALIZATION.
Regulated, but fully legal sale and possession of all drugs is the only way to break the back of these cartels. It will also solve the prison overcrowding issue and provide a nice tax income for local governments who are currently being squeezed to death.
Anybody who is still against the legalization of recreational drugs is simply ignorant or idiotic.


Hear hear, but I do have an issue with saying that anyone against legalization is ignorant or idiotic. Although this rhetoric is very common these days, it simply kills conversation that might occur with people who are open to discussing different sides of this issue.

Of the people that I feel may change their mind or at least be truly open, I have most often run into an emotional argument against full legalization. This emotional argument is usually based on personally knowing someone brought low by drugs or fear of what would happen. For someone having a loved one/associate/etc who was hurt by drugs, you can sympathize with them and bring up the point that legalization will open the doors for support services and remove some social stigma from seeking help before they hit bottom or kill themselves (accident or purposefully.) The general fears can be talked out and likened to other things in life which are fearful... because really this is the fear of the unknown. The Netherlands has lower adult and teen marijuana use despite its lax laws on it, and if I remember correctly, one of officials made the comment about this stat, "We have succeeded in making marijuana boring." It's a standard of desire, things forbidden are simply tantalizing.

>> ^curiousity:

>> ^MaxWilder:
^ The proper course to take is full LEGALIZATION.
Regulated, but fully legal sale and possession of all drugs is the only way to break the back of these cartels. It will also solve the prison overcrowding issue and provide a nice tax income for local governments who are currently being squeezed to death.
Anybody who is still against the legalization of recreational drugs is simply ignorant or idiotic.

Hear hear, but I do have an issue with saying that anyone against legalization is ignorant or idiotic. Although this rhetoric is very common these days, it simply kills conversation that might occur with people who are open to discussing different sides of this issue.
Of the people that I feel may change their mind or at least be truly open, I have most often run into an emotional argument against full legalization. This emotional argument is usually based on personally knowing someone brought low by drugs or fear of what would happen. For someone having a loved one/associate/etc who was hurt by drugs, you can sympathize with them and bring up the point that legalization will open the doors for support services and remove some social stigma from seeking help before they hit bottom or kill themselves (accident or purposefully.) The general fears can be talked out and likened to other things in life which are fearful... because really this is the fear of the unknown. The Netherlands has lower adult and teen marijuana use despite its lax laws on it, and if I remember correctly, one of officials made the comment about this stat, "We have succeeded in making marijuana boring." It's a standard of desire, things forbidden are simply tantalizing.


That's pretty much what I mean by ignorant. It's not meant as an insult, just a lack of knowledge. They don't know the truth about how people react to substances being legal or illegal. Legalization will allow addicts to more easily admit they have a problem and seek help. Legalization will make substances less attractive to people who are turned on by flaunting the law.

Of course there are also idiots who have heard all of this and still think drugs should be illegal because "they are dangerous." For them it is fully intended to be an insult.

@MaxWilder

I wrote something here but erased it because I want to go to sleep. We essentially have the same position. Cheers!

This looks like a plain and simple false flag op designed to further deteriorate the validity of the second amendment-All hail the police state! People of America should demand that Obama be hauled before immediate congressional sub-committee investigations.