But how long-term was the effect of the program? To me that just sounds like there would be another 2000 people with guns, scared into thinking they will be attacked.

I'm sure that if another well publicised campaign was introduced which let criminals know they would have their balls chopped off if they attempted any form of crime, you'd see a similar drop. As with any - even draconian - deterrent I doubt it would put everyone off, or for long.

As I said in my original post, the pro-gun debate mystifies (and depresses) me but I'm not going to change anyone's mind. I shouldn't have written anything.

In reply to this comment by MarineGunrock:
Thank you for enforcing my point about people intent on killing others, gorilla.

There was a program in Florida, I believe in the 70s, where a police department trained and armed 2,000 women with handguns, and publicized it very well. It was shown that crimes committed against women dropped it think 70% after the program was announced to have started.

Reason? Criminals think twice about attacking someone where there's a good chance they have a gun.

The paranoia shown in this thread is amazing. From what's been written it sounds like people here are fully prepared to be carjacked or wake up and find someone in their bedroom.

I'm also amazed that the UK is being used as a negative example of what happens when strict gun control is enforced - gun crime was rising even before the recent legislation was passed, so to suggest that its introduction created a dangerous new gun culture is misleading. Even so to put this in perspective, of the 755 recorded murders in 2006/07 barely 7% involved a gun.

In fact, in the Home Office's 2006/07 British Crime Survey, crimes involving firearms decreased pretty much across the board - due to gun control, knives are still by far the most popular weapon. These figures are on page 78 of the survey.

Gun crime in the UK (and I expect the US) is predominately concentrated in a few urban centres and more often than not is linked to some form of inter-gang activity i.e. it's 16-24 year old males from ethnic minorities killing each other. I'd say I'm fairly safe in assuming that the majority of the people who have commented here are white and of European origin, which automatically means the likelihood of you being involved in a gun crime are statistically and comparatively small.

As a non-US citizen the whole debate over an anachronistic right to bear arms mystifies me.

i think bill bailey got pretty close:

"We have strong prevailing south westerly winds. 52% of our days are overcast so as a nation we're infused with a wistful melancholy, but we remain a relentlessly chipper population. Prone to mild eccentricity, binge drinking and casual violence. Breakfast is served 7-9."

In reply to this comment by MINK:
yeah you can make the best of it, and it's not a warzone. i just didn't understand your point. thanks

In reply to this comment by gorilla_squad:
i was addressing you. bill bryson is utterly mawkish about britain and most of what he said in the vid is bollocks, but then so is your rant.

I've been living in london on a modest wage for years and have a great time, so I thought I'd add some balance to bryson's indulgence and your bitterness.

In reply to this comment by MINK:
errrr.... not sure who you are addressing with that comment

i left england, and i am not so sentimental about it.

if you were agreeing with me, then yeah! haha

In reply to this comment by gorilla_squad:
jesus, turn down the sentimentality. england's not all that.

In reply to this comment by MINK:
as another englishman who left that ridiculous island... i can say this is bollocks.
you need a LOT of money to like the UK...

...maybe the kind of money you would get if you wrote a cozy book about how great the UK is.

ok so people DO apologise if you hit them carelessly in a crowded place, big woop.

i was addressing you. bill bryson is utterly mawkish about britain and most of what he said in the vid is bollocks, but then so is your rant.

I've been living in london on a modest wage for years and have a great time, so I thought I'd add some balance to bryson's indulgence and your bitterness.

In reply to this comment by MINK:
errrr.... not sure who you are addressing with that comment

i left england, and i am not so sentimental about it.

if you were agreeing with me, then yeah! haha

In reply to this comment by gorilla_squad:
jesus, turn down the sentimentality. england's not all that.

In reply to this comment by MINK:
as another englishman who left that ridiculous island... i can say this is bollocks.
you need a LOT of money to like the UK...

...maybe the kind of money you would get if you wrote a cozy book about how great the UK is.

ok so people DO apologise if you hit them carelessly in a crowded place, big woop.

jesus, turn down the sentimentality. england's not all that.

In reply to this comment by MINK:
as another englishman who left that ridiculous island... i can say this is bollocks.
you need a LOT of money to like the UK...

...maybe the kind of money you would get if you wrote a cozy book about how great the UK is.

ok so people DO apologise if you hit them carelessly in a crowded place, big woop.

Same as with Fletch - I could only find a version with titles.

*notdead

the song's by rob manuel of b3ta.com

That would make much more sense...I'll get my coat.

In reply to this comment by dag:
I think the YouTube clip comes from the US HBO version, which was aired at around the same time as the BBC version. I suspect it was released around the same time so people would watch it on HBO, instead of getting it online.

In reply to this comment by gorilla_squad:
That's a great point - I had wondered who Katie Couric was.

Perversely, I'm fairly sure this is the same version originally aired, otherwise I'm not sure how the American edit got up on YouTube so quickly. This copy was published pretty much the day after I watched it on tv.

You've got to expect some pandering to an international audience given Ricky Gervais's popularity, though. I didn't feel that it was any less aimed at the home audience than earlier stuff.

In reply to this comment by dag:
Interesting that this has been edited from the original BBC version I watched.

Katie Couric = Kate Adie
American Idol = X Factor

They have obviously dubbed this version to be more understandable to an American audience. That kind of pandering to American tastes displeases me.

That's a great point - I had wondered who Katie Couric was.

Perversely, I'm fairly sure this is the same version originally aired, otherwise I'm not sure how the American edit got up on YouTube so quickly. This copy was published pretty much the day after I watched it on tv.

You've got to expect some pandering to an international audience given Ricky Gervais's popularity, though. I didn't feel that it was any less aimed at the home audience than earlier stuff.

In reply to this comment by dag:
Interesting that this has been edited from the original BBC version I watched.

Katie Couric = Kate Adie
American Idol = X Factor

They have obviously dubbed this version to be more understandable to an American audience. That kind of pandering to American tastes displeases me.

Hi Farhad, I expect you've already seen this but it makes interesting reading about the importance the Russian population places on freedom of speech/the press (although it may also confirm your worst fears about Putin's indoctrination...).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/7134918.stm#graph

I agree that what Putin is doing is insidious and that he has taken full advantage of the circumstances, but to be honest I'm not sure the democratic process that we recognise in the west will become institutionalised in Russia for a long time.

I'm generalising, but Russia has always done things her way and in nearly all cases that has meant the state is the power and the people are the tools. I just think that it would be very hard for any population to completely break from that political tradition in a short space of time. I was tempted to say that the Russian people have been under one form of authoritarian regime or another since the first Tsar.

But who's to say full democracy is what the Russian people want at the moment?

The country came out of 70 odd years of authoritarianism into massive economic and constitutional crises less than 20 years ago - I'm guessing many Russians are quite happy to have an effective leader ensuring Russia's place in the world and providing reliable utilities and public services.

The democratic process will likely be a concern that comes later.

It makes little difference whether the elections were fair or not - the Russian people would have voted for Putin in their droves anyway.

Which other political figure (or party) can offer them a taste of democracy, consign the humiliation of the 90s to the dustbin and remind the world of their strength? Russia is essentially a world player again, and as far as the Russian people are concerned they've only one person to thank for that.

agreed. hitler always stole his rhymes from jay-z.