Hey Choggie, I don't know you, but I felt this was appropriate.

Well this beats all. I guess this is an open ticket for anyone to discard whichever and whatever video they want and go on a blanket downvote spree with zero chance of anything more than a temporary ban. Good to know. Maybe we should all head over to gwiz665's queue to show him some choggie love.

Does this mean that my account now must be deleted, since I no longer have use for a sockpuppet?

blankfist: you make it sound like the antichrist himself is coming to the sift to fuck with us. an important part of sift's history has been reinstated – this is a time for celebration, not despair and fear mongering. I don't always like your fucking attitude either but I keep quiet about it cause you post such quality videos. so, how about a big cup of stfu and a big welcome to choggie

can we please also reinstate captainplanet420 and billoreilly?

i am not joking. i want to see them back.

Uh, abortion jokes.. fun.

I hope choggie will see this as a gesture of goodwill and will behave here in the future. If he does not, the ban is not far behind... again.

Blankfist, that was exactly the kind of thing I wanted to avoid, which is why I tried to kill the poll. I have not been involved in all the things that happened behind the scenes, so I don't think it's fair to punish me for whatever he has done. I only have knowledge of what has happened plainly on the site and I think he did less "bad" than captainplanet420, to take an example. My view can certainly be misguided, I won't deny that, but I did the poll in the best intentions.. and killed it when people started harassing me about it.

I hate drama, but it seems to surround me lately. That'll learn me for putting my junk into a hornet's nest.

lol.. I love how someone without server logs can make declarations that based on comments, he "knows" something. Pheonician or whatever didn't even sound like Choggie, and he wasn't in Canada. Did he cop to this or is this reinstatement all hypothetical.

*quality. You're a good man, Dag.

Although he still seems to be banned. Maybe he's gotten himself re-banned in the four hours since this was posted.

As a personal note, I have always enjoyed choggie, except for the times that he was extraordinarily cruel to my Sift brethren. I have always had a problem with some of his behavior, but I enjoy his presence and sometimes find his madness refreshing and enriching. Some of this madness could be mistaken for truth, as is often the case with madness.

So Choggie, welcome back. CatHat will hold you to the highest possible standard. I know you think your job is to open minds, but be gentle because minds are fragile things and don't take well to being forced. You have the ability to be very kind, too. Bring the challenge, but please do it as lovingly as you can.

Awarding dag with one star point for this contribution to VideoSift - declared quality by schmawy.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

We had to check the buckles on the restraints one more time, but Choggie is now active.

I love how you're making him wear a scarlet letter, yet I think there's more to be done to ridicule him in public. As it is now, there's still a slight chance he might actually return under these restrictions.

Watch him not even show up.

After all the hand-wringing and wingeing, that would blow my irony meter right the fuck up.

Just woke up to this. Thank you, Dag.
Choggs, WELCOME BACK!

Nothing he said made sense anyway. He thought every post he ever made was like epic poetry, but it was so much nonsense

I always love reading the "do your best impression of choggie" posts. Some people just grasp it so well.

I think what we should do to hobble him is take away his "," key. He, will never, ever, be able, to make a, statement, nor survive for, very long, without it. <dramatic pause>

Strange things happen in the sift

>> ^kulpims:
blankfist: you make it sound like the antichrist himself is coming to the sift to fuck with us. an important part of sift's history has been reinstated – this is a time for celebration, not despair and fear mongering. I don't always like your fucking attitude either but I keep quiet about it cause you post such quality videos. so, how about a big cup of stfu and a big welcome to choggie


No need to be rude. You got your precious unapologetic blathering messiah back.

I would just like to say that I suggested the idea of a custom hobble for Choggie. I take no credit for this but you are all very welcome. If anyone would like me to improve their lives even more with my unadulterated genius, just feel free to ask.

Except for Gwiz.

It's like Polanski coming back to America and getting a slap on the wrist. Or a bailout. Take your pick.

The sift's about to hit the fan.

I'll keep the ban hammer out just in case.

This comes as quite a shock to me. I kinda understand that it's the nature of online communities to function as a sort of constitutional monarchy, but I guess I don't understand the social contract here, even after all this time.

So, I have some VideoSift civics questions for you, dag.

1. What purpose are the rules supposed to serve? Protection of the community? A declaration that the community demands adherence to some sort of basic standard of moral behavior? Decoration?
   
   
2. Are the rules applicable to everyone equally, or do people with a greater degree of popularity get exempted from them?
   
   
3. Once someone has been banned for a violation of the rules, what are the criteria for pardoning them?
   
   In the real world, a common requirement is that the criminal in question expresses remorse for their actions, and asks forgiveness. Or there's a political need to make peace (e.g. pardons for the architects of the Whiskey Rebellion, or the Confederate soldiers after the Civil War). Or it's done to cover the ass of a political crony. This case involves none of those things, so what exactly is the reasoning?
   
   
4. What rights do victims have? Must they constantly fight to maintain a negative popular opinion for their attackers in order to maintain justice? What about privacy? Must they air dirty laundry to constantly keep it in the minds of people, lest their abuser's transgressions be forgotten?
   
   
5. What representation is given to people who left the community, never to return, because of the abuser's actions?
   
   
6. Is there any guarantee of protection from harassment on VideoSift at all, or is that contingent on popular vote?
   
   
7. If all rules can be waived by popular vote, what are the mechanics of how that works? Normally polls are open for 72 hours before a conclusion, why wasn't this one? Does the person making the proposition poll have the right to rescind the request (as happened with this one)? If they're binding, even when the request is controversial and ill-advised, can we make a fucking health channel already?
   

I think convicted criminals rejoining society and being given a chance to show that they have learned their lesson is part of a civilized society. I realize, Choggie has always been very nice to me, and as such, I don't have the weight in my voice that some do. However, I suspect there is at least one person who did receive some negative Choggie attention who is willing to speak up in favor of this sift-parole.

I'm just looking forward to his weekly wiz in the cup.

I hope you do come back, Choggie. And in my optimistic, story-book-ridden view of the universe, I hope you have a word of apology and intention to earn a more normalized sift-citizenship.

I wholeheartedly support clemency for convicted criminals who're rehabilitated and proven they take responsibility for their actions. Part of that is admitting fault and asking for forgiveness. As a result, this proves to the community the criminal has learned the error of his ways and is motivated with conviction not to repeat them.

When choggie does any of that, let me know.

>> ^NetRunner:
Are the rules applicable to everyone equally, or do people with a greater degree of popularity get exempted from them?


It was his own popularity that sparked a poll in which a large number of people voted to have him pardoned, so you can only pin that one on Dag if you see the site's rules as being a strict law that should always be adhered to.

However, Dag's made it clear that this site's run with a more human element at times, where we ourselves help shape the site. Considering that element, what we have here is a rule being bent because part of the community here requested it. So yes, in essence the answer to that is popularity does seem to have an effect here.

It's simply the nature of how this place works.

But... I'm not passing any form of judgement on this, so if it sounds negative.. it's actually somewhere between pro and neutral. It seems that another reason all of this is happening is there's some bad blood between two parties, and one party saw this pole created by the other party and wants that party to now take responsibility for creating the pole.

What I'm saying is, I'm not sure Chogie would have been pardoned if it was me or rottenseed or etc. who started the poll. I could be wrong, but there's some hint of that in the posts I've read.

I'm just bringing this up now so later down the line if a shitstorm erupts from all of this it doesn't turn into a conspiracy, 'AMG U MEAN DAG JUST BROUGHT CHOGIE BAK 2 GET AT GWIZ?!!". Hope everyone catches what I'm saying.

I personally have no problems with Gwiz, but I didn't like seeing him try to get out of the poll he created. If you're gonna bring up something controversial, then fasten your seat belt for where ever it may lead. That includes me hitting submit right about... now.

When Choggie June publicly shows some remorse for all the actions that led to his banishment (and not by proxy via his sift chums), then maybe the healing can begin. Until then, he's the same old mean-spirited choggie to me.

And kulpims, I don't always like blankfist's attitude either, but then he never repeatedly discarded videos wrongfully, now did he? Do you think everyone should be popping open champagne bottles after all the shit he pulled here? Maybe you should STFU and learn a little empathy.

If I go on a downvote spree and start discarding videos, does that make me a genius with a beautiful mind?

>> ^NetRunner:
Are the rules applicable to everyone equally, or do people with a greater degree of popularity get exempted from them?
(...)
Is there any guarantee of protection from harassment on VideoSift at all, or is that contingent on popular vote?


It has been made unequivocally clear many times that this place is an experiment in absolute democracy. This means that every court decision is decided by popular vote, and can also be overturned by popular vote. As such, popularity is very much part of the current justice system. What this system lacks, as opposed to every functioning modern democracy, is the concept of separation of powers. It was this flaw that I wanted to take steps to correct with this poll, but alas, that attempt stranded despite a lot of good ideas emerging from the ensuing discussion.

Edit to remove most of what I was saying, I find that I don't give a shit anymore. And I doubt anyone else does either.

I logged in here a bit ago because two videos were just posted on YouTube that are worth sifting, but I find myself not caring at the moment. If anyone wants a couple of good science vids on dosage and risk as it relates to vaccines parts 1 and 2 are at the following links.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKujq-TcJLM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXHwmzCr_0o

Later.

Abortion or abhor-tion? Just curious.

Welcome back, choggie. Upvote my pq.

>> ^kronosposeidon:
When Choggie June publicly shows some remorse for all the actions that led to his banishment (and not by proxy via his sift chums), then maybe the healing can begin. Until then, he's the same old mean-spirited choggie to me.
And kulpims, I don't always like blankfist's attitude either, but then he never repeatedly discarded videos wrongfully, now did he? Do you think everyone should be popping open champagne bottles after all the shit he pulled here? Maybe you should STFU and learn a little empathy.
If I go on a downvote spree and start discarding videos, does that make me a genius with a beautiful mind?


http://wildwestshow.videosift.com/talk/Thanks-Apologies-A-Gravity

But this is totally what is happening. I wanted to back out, because my understanding of a poll is quite different than dag's, evidently. I concede that it wasn't the right thing to do, but to be honest, I didn't see any "right way" to go about it once the poll was posted. If I had left it, people would have hated me for being the spearhead of a cause I really didn't care all that much for, and if I discarded it, well this happened.

I had hoped that someone who cared much more about the choggie case had made a new poll, now that we had many more facts about the case, but everyone seemed adamant that because the poll was more to the "Yes" side, that my poll had to be resurrected. And even when it had been killed, which should have halted the process, but oh no, the result was used anyway. And now all of us are knee deep in the shit. We can't redo the poll now, we can't magically go back in time and let it run its course, and we can't just pretend it never happened. I rashly discarded my post, but I didn't enforce its aborted outcome, as it was so eloquently put.

If dag feels the need to passive-aggressively ridicule me in public, so be it, but I hope you all see it for what it is.

You're alright in my book, drax.

>> ^Drax:
But... I'm not passing any form of judgement on this, so if it sounds negative.. it's actually somewhere between pro and neutral. It seems that another reason all of this is happening is there's some bad blood between two parties, and one party saw this pole created by the other party and wants that party to now take responsibility for creating the pole.
What I'm saying is, I'm not sure Chogie would have been pardoned if it was me or rottenseed or etc. who started the poll. I could be wrong, but there's some hint of that in the posts I've read.
I'm just bringing this up now so later down the line if a shitstorm erupts from all of this it doesn't turn into a conspiracy, 'AMG U MEAN DAG JUST BROUGHT CHOGIE BAK 2 GET AT GWIZ?!!". Hope everyone catches what I'm saying.
I personally have no problems with Gwiz, but I didn't like seeing him try to get out of the poll he created. If you're gonna bring up something controversial, then fasten your seat belt for where ever it may lead. That includes me hitting submit right about... now.

"Abortion of a poll" is the most gruesome-hilarious term I've heard today.

And I work as an auditor, so we hear some surprisingly trippy things on a daily basis.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

NetRunner has requested that I answer these question, so here goes:

# What purpose are the rules supposed to serve? Protection of the community? A declaration that the community demands adherence to some sort of basic standard of moral behavior? Decoration?

The rules are "guidelines" - we didn't call them that by accident. They are there to serve as a guide. To protect the community, yes- but also to empower it, shape it and strengthen it.


# Are the rules applicable to everyone equally, or do people with a greater degree of popularity get exempted from them?

The guidelines are applicable to everyone equally. I'll assume that you're referencing our reinstatement of Choggie here- Choggie was reinstated because a majority of the participating community indicated that this is what they want. I acted on this- mindful that Choggie did real hurt to a minority of the community and put in safeguards to ensure this hurt would be minimized. FTR our guidelines do not say that all bans are permanent forever and ever, amen. I do believe in second chances.

# Once someone has been banned for a violation of the rules, what are the criteria for pardoning them?

We don't have a constitution, and I feel that you're writing in those terms. In this particular case- the criteria was that the community indicated this was their preference, to overturn the ban, and I was agreeable to it - with the provisos included.

In the real world, a common requirement is that the criminal in question expresses remorse for their actions, and asks forgiveness. Or there's a political need to make peace (e.g. pardons for the architects of the Whiskey Rebellion, or the Confederate soldiers after the Civil War). Or it's done to cover the ass of a political crony. This case involves none of those things, so what exactly is the reasoning?

See the above answer.

# What rights do victims have? Must they constantly fight to maintain a negative popular opinion for their attackers in order to maintain justice? What about privacy? Must they air dirty laundry to constantly keep it in the minds of people, lest their abuser's transgressions be forgotten?

I would expect any grievances to be provided privately to me.

# What representation is given to people who left the community, never to return, because of the abuser's actions?

I'm not sure what you mean by representation here - or what you would expect for this.

# Is there any guarantee of protection from harassment on VideoSift at all, or is that contingent on popular vote?

Like the rest of the Internet- no there is no absolute guarantee of harassment protection for anyone. For Choggie- we have removed the tools of private harassment- any public harassment would be swiftly dealt with. Choggie knows this.

# If all rules can be waived by popular vote, what are the mechanics of how that works? Normally polls are open for 72 hours before a conclusion, why wasn't this one? Does the person making the proposition poll have the right to rescind the request (as happened with this one)? If they're binding, even when the request is controversial and ill-advised, can we make a fucking health channel already?

Guidelines may be waived by popular vote- I'll have the final say on this, but would definitely take it into strong consideration. Nothing is binding, the rules are guidelines. We are not a constitutional republic- this is a web community- a very good one.

Amen BH, amen.

It's a Miracle of Kurt Russell proportions, I tell ya...nothing to see here but a buncha loonies spitting fire all over the electric desert highway, anyway. Whaddya think about that, go figure...and as such ya got nothing more'n a cap'n's chance in Hell, no matter. Bringin'im all the way back from the dead like Lazarus on a Texas sunrise!

>> ^campionidelmondo:
I love how you're making him wear a scarlet letter, yet I think there's more to be done to ridicule him in public. As it is now, there's still a slight chance he might actually return under these restrictions.


So, he's wearing a letter "B"?

lol the way some people talk they make out like chigi has phiscaly stuck his penis down there mouths and waved it around for 3 days.

such imagery, westy....

Well, I had to look it up. I'm glad you gave Choggie a pardon.