Seriously, BAN. I have no more tolerance for his fucking bullshit. NO MORE.

Voting....what a concept-Unilateral decisions seem the rule of order here on the new and impoverished sift-Let Dagicuss decide....he knows best. Here's one vote for sit down and shut the fuck up, 420 perhaps wants what he is getting, Why else would he be performing so exemplary??

I see you choggie

You can't really hate someone for being ignorant and craving attention. I guess votes of any kind, be they up or down, is his drug of choice. He certainly can't seem to be able to go a day without it.

I'm not sure he should be banned yet though. He got everybody angry, let's not get carried away. If he does something similar again though, ban his ass.

I just ignore the fucker but the sift would be better off without them, so I wouldn't lose any sleep over a ban. The point of that being that the gold star is lost of course.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

In times like these, we should fall back on the guidelines. Has he violated them? Which ones and links please.

if he wants to play the role of a retard - let him. sometimes he's way off but i'm against banning him just because he's an asshole (see: ^dag).

We love a good fiery comment thread, but sometimes they go overboard. Please avoid personal attacks. It's okay to criticize ideas but refrain personal insults. Please avoid blatantly racist speech, threats, or other verbal abuse. This goes for comments in public arenas as well as private member profile comments. If a comment is bad enough it will probably be deleted due to negative feedback. If these types of comments are regular occurrences, we will probably ask you to leave the community.

Ok so it doesn't mention general hate speech here, but maybe it should. We're a lot of us guilty of making personal comments about him so I guess that puts us in violation, but I think everyone who has done that has only aimed it at him because of his overall attitude.

But the statement "if these types of comments are regular occurences, we will probably ask you to leave" seems to say it all. I'm not necessarily for all out ban, but i'd like to see some end to the shit, there has to be a point where it gets too much. Maybe we need to outline what and when that point is.

As a sidenote, aiming this at 420, I don't wish to drown your spirit, oftentimes you write some things that are amusing and obviously playing up to your role. But you've gone past the line enough times for that not to shine through, and if all this is some elaborate joke on your part, I guess it's time to tone it down, change it up or go elsewhere

>> ^dag:
In times like these, we should fall back on the guidelines. Has he violated them? Which ones and links please.


So why did you ban a troop basher and a general douchebag, You know what I'm talking about. It's all part of the same ball of wax. Are you telling me that starred members' bigotry towards gays and Muslims shall be tolerated, while someone who slams troops or who is behaving like a general douchebag will not be allowed?

Your continued tolerance of choggie's latest sock puppet speaks volumes, really. The problem is not going to go away if you continue to ignore it.

Don't know about you, but repeatedly adding his post into the *Islam channel seems outright racist to me.

Adding post to channels (Islam) - requested by Issykitty.

Uhhh... that was not on purpose, oops^

*nochannel

I'm not sure he qualifies for banning to begin with but if he does, what's the point of banning him? Choggie was banned for similar, though more advanced, immature douchebaggery and we all know how well that worked.

A reason for banning would be to strip him of his star powers; no qualitites, no promotes, no downvotes no nothing.

I've been on the fence with this one for a while, because if we ban for "just not liking a person", which it seemed the siftquisition of him was about, the sift changes into something I don't like. But lately, I've been fed up.

We have to be careful about applying the rules extremely rigorously, because there are many of us that would be out of here in that case. It's more guidelines than laws, really.

§32.5
"Abuse of the site, other members, votes, posts, comments, or any privileges, especially star abilities, whether mentioned above or not, may result in account suspension or a permanent ban."

His deceitful posts is a symptom of playing the system instead of "the game". I'm not certain he explicitly breaks any rules, other than the one above, but he certainly breaks the spirit of the rules.

I hate to see a prolific user banned, but for me he's banned already anyway. Do with him what you will, I'm not voting on his posts any more.

His actions make it worse for everyone else, because the rules have to be tightened. We have to sacrifice our siftopian liberties to clean up the site: we get rid of one axe murderer by banning all axes, and that sucks. I'd rather just fry the axe murderer and be done with it.

This is ugly. The man is a grade-A douchebag, but what's he done that actually deserves a ban, aside from being a jerk? If we start banning people just because we don't like them, where do we draw the line? Who's next?

And you realize you're just playing right into his hand with stuff like this -- he's going to love this. That's why trolls do what they do, it's for the attention. How about everyone just promises to ignore CP when he says something stupid? He'll eventually go away on his own, and we won't have to act like a bunch of pitchfork-wielding villagers.

^Here is what he has done that deserves a ban:

Blatant bigotry toward

1. Gays
2. Muslims

People have been purged for similar offenses already. I agree that in most instances trolls should be ignored. Still it is important to remember that ignoring does not always work, and if we allow bigots to keep spewing their hate here then we might as well advertise "VideoSift: Haters welcome!"

*promote. Ignoring this problem will not make it go away.

Promoting this Sift Talk post - promote requested by CaptWillard.

That gay comment was months ago, and he apologized for it, albeit not in the best way ever. If that were justification for banning, he would have been banned at the time. As for the Islam thing, that seems more like douchebaggery than outright racism. I think whether or not it's ban-worthy is tenuous at best. But let's just admit it, we're not here because of a couple of comments. We're here because we don't like the guy, and we want him banished. Isn't that what this is about?

Some of you talk about the ban as if there was only one kind of ban: a permanent one. A professor of mine always said "if students graded each other's papers, none of you would have good grades, they are too demanding and critical"

Ever heard of short term bans? 2 weeks? a month? 3 months? 6 months? etc?
I say this because it is as if (some) of you pretty much want the guy to be banned permanently.

In general for me it's 3 strikes and you're out. He already seems to have reached those 3 strikes based on the links and posts I've seen here.

So ok 3 strikes = ban. But a permanent ban? why could it not be a short term ban?

then if he violates a rule again: a longer ban
if yet another 3rd instance of rule violation is made: then
permaban.

Wasn't the cat with a hat banned for like 2 weeks for pretty much nothing? oh no, I remember why, for "abuse of invocations/powers" or something along those lines. Well, by the same logic for that ban, the cheney/islam fiasco also qualifies for abuse of invocations/powers. I am not saying "do this, or do that" but seeing how the banning of schmawy was never retreived or admitted as a mistake, then I'm surprised how dag is asking for links, when in a somewhat similar case the ban was made much quicker.

To the users who just want to get rid of the guy: Look around, I see choggie, and he was banned.

You're all taking the sanctimonious road eh... ?
This place is becoming snobish, the new top sifters are a pale shadow of the ones who came before you...

He pushed your buttons?

SO WHAT!

Maybe he should be banned this isn't the first time he has used subversion in a post.

After all I purge my streamreader and filestreams every 5 minutes, so i could care less what he has to say.

Only that when Ignore some one I would rather not even see their name in a thread.

You're right, I don't like him. But, the siftquisition was specifically about the fact that he put that post back in the Islam channel after dag directly told him not to do it. That alone should have been a 2 week ban.

"Abuse of the site, other members, votes, posts, comments, or any privileges, especially star abilities, whether mentioned above or not, may result in account suspension or a permanent ban."

Changing the titles, tags and channels to something completely different is abuse of the site. It's abusive to it's members and the votes they would not have cast if those things were there in the first place. After 2 bronze crowns and a site admin tell you to stop doing it, and you do it anyway, that's abuse of privileges. That's what the siftquisition was about.

>> ^gwiz665:
...if we ban for "just not liking a person", which it seemed the siftquisition of him was about...

VS seems to have a habit of pardoning their haters, well past the point where it's just destructive.

For my $0.02, I say a temporary ban is called for as a warning that things are going too far.

We shouldn't be confusing hateful behavior for mere political dissent.

He has harmed the Sift infinitely more than he has helped it, and there is absolutely zero indication that he has any intention of altering this pattern. I say permaban his ass. He is openly homophobic too -- what more could he possibly do to deserve a ban?

He's an asshole.

Ban?

No, just ignore.

Unless you feel like slapping him around, which, at times, can be amusing.

Unfortunately, I agree with the LiberalSift consensus, our resident dope-smoker needs to go. His persona has gotten old in a hurry, I'm tired of the fighting between members.

*instaban

No ban.

[edit] Or ban him. I could care less.

Draw and quarter?

"This would be a lot easier if it were a dictatorship, just so long as I'm the dictator."

>> ^Issykitty:
Seriously, BAN. I can't tolerance his absolute brilliance. It's too much for me. NO MORE.


Hey there, feral. Ya held it in sooooo long, didn't you? And you thought "Aha! My time has come!" Well...I'll *quality this once I get my sad little power point back....but this hasn't gone as well for you as I'd hoped. You should not do the personal attacks, they still frown upon those in the TOS, I don't want to see you in trouble. And Islam is a religion, not a race...my grandfather was Islamic, so I don't appreciate the crossover. But thank you for trying to invoke it and bring attention to Islam's plight. Meow?

CaptainPlanet420 cannot award a quality point for this Sift Talk post because CaptainPlanet420 does not have enough Power Points - ignoring quality request by CaptainPlanet420. (You can always purchase more Power Points.)

I say grind his bones and make bread

>> ^alien_concept:
If these types of comments are regular occurrences, we will probably ask you to leave the community.

ive always thought the problem with this part of the TOS is its too wooly to ever be implemented. i just cant see it ever being applied. if i were a high court judge id return this piece of legislation to teh government with a teacher sticky note saying "must try harder"

its always felt like it was an appeasement to those who want to be sure that such things wont be taken too far but simultaneously sufficiently liberal to be ineffectual.

i'd like to say we should look to the TOS, but the tos is found wanting adn first needs a rewrite (in this area) and then needs to be applied. which raises the question of writing a law specifically to retroactively apply it, and of what would be better language (the openness of the current leaves freedom for interpretation, but if you can read a sentence two ways, its legally useless). there shouldn't be room for interpretation for a TOS. discretion by the site admins, sure. but not interpretation. its the distinction between justice and mercy.

>> ^deathcow:
I say grind his bones and make bread


What about all that juicy meat in his head?

Do I smell bacon!

Part of me appreciates having the captain around but let me just arbitrarily say this:

If he's pissing off Issykitty, kick his ass out the door.

>> ^BillOreilly:
Unfortunately, I agree with the LiberalSift consensus, our resident dope-smoker needs to go.

shit, i thought you meant me

PS I think you're overreacting with this CP420 situation. the man is clearly not a complete idiot, just wants to come off as one for some reason - so let him. he's a troll but hasn't broken any major rules. temp ban?

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

Opinions appear to be aligned along these categories:

Ban him forever
Ban him for 2 weeks
Ignore him as a troll

After reading the comment history, I agree on a 2 week ban for borderline hate speech and attempting to screw up the content by bad channel assignments. Starting now.

^Thank you dag. I hope CP420 learns something in the interim, but I am not holding my breath. I still appreciate that you took our concerns seriously. Thank you again.

e: I agree with you Mycroft☟. Still I think it is a step in the right direction, and if he screws up one more time after his return I think he will be banned permanently. CP420 is not as clever as some people believe. It won't be long before he fucks up again. Then it is bye-bye CaptainPlanet.

Kind of OT, but with me - CaptWillard - helping to prosecute him - CaptainPlanet - did it almost feel like a court martial? A Few Good Men? Anyone?

Ban.

His/Hers repeated minor offensives are hurting the sift: long time contributors are leaving, and new members are being alienated.

More to the point, I believe we should have tighter banning practices here, as the do in other interweb forums like NeoGaff.

*quality. For having the guts to at least TRY to do what was long overdue.

Awarding alien_concept with one star point for this contribution to Sift Talk - declared quality by CaptWillard.

Oh, bluecliff, you are too kind. You're making me blush.


>> ^bluecliff:
You're all taking the sanctimonious road eh... ?
This place is becoming snobish, the new top sifters are a pale shadow of the ones who came before you...
He pushed your buttons?
SO WHAT!

you know what.. I'm about at my limit with this bullshit.

Dag, you have to realize you're going to have to live with this nonsense and crybaby behavior you are promoting. THe question is WHO IS NEXT? Here's the thing, this wasn't an administrative decision by yourself, or even a result of back channel complaints.

You have now empowered these spineless baby tards with the ability to at least feel they have control over who is allowed in their swimming pool. This is the internet, and if they can't learn to ignore things that aren't even offensive and aren't even violating any of the rules, you've got serious problems.

Trust me, I'm not unique in my feelings on this, and I think you will see the membership and number of regulars plummet as the result of constant pandering to a small clique of people. I'm glad they've set up shop, but the termites have done more than just put up their happy curtains and redecorate the place a bit.

Out of thousands on comments they can't ignore one or two? They can't message concerns to you back channel and deal with this like normal people? They have to resort to childish and normally bannable "call-out" public posts?

Why is it not bannable for this kind of childish and disruptive behavior? And appealing to mob mentality to act like there is a problem, when there really isn't one? The new "elite" are a bunch of bullies and moralists.

^I'm not sure he qualifies for banning to begin with but if he does, what's the point of banning him? Choggie was banned for similar, though more advanced, immature douchebaggery and we all know how well that worked"

Hmmmm....douchebaggery-well, you got the more advanced part spot on....

By the by.....what the FUCK, dag, fall back on simplistic rule-breaking as a guage rather than engage in conversation??? Simply provide the pit, coal, and fire, and let the "commmunity" decide *cough vote cough* ...ON A BLOG.....fuck all mate, apologies, for all the chaos some are unable to stomach, perceive without filters or properly dissect,one must be BORED.....or simply simpering.....speakin' a which, ban most of these fucktards fulla themselves, while they are at it....some NOT here have no real voice...some, given free reign...as long as bruised feeeeleings infringed upon, can be covered in the greasepaint of denial-and Burdturrrgler??!!...yer down-voting comments??...hater motherfucker-how bout demand some bannage for some insignificance???....Ban yerself, and fuck yer perceptive apparatus as well....and Bless it as well, because a fuck is, after all, a blessing, from the goddess herself-
, get a room, a mirror, and
captainplanet420, salud, yer rude, get a room , a mirror, and reinvent your right hand...

so yeah, ban the motherfuckers, all these.."haters".....oooooH!

WTF does that bullshit mean, anyhow....hater? Sounds retarded, played, and provides no reader the benefit of meaning....fonr crissakes, gangbangers make up a word, and white folks embrace it, iambic fucking pentameter....uhhhh , it's played, as it were......

So they broke some rules....fuck a buncha rules when the meaning is lost or ignored for the sake of ....what?

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

JD, I won't apologize for attempting to run this site by consensus and don't confuse me with a strong leader.

My goal is to engage in as little admin/strong-arm stuff as possible while still supporting the community in general.

After reading everyone's comments and then reading CP's comment history I decided that this guy was hurting the Sift. I also felt that by and large the community wanted something done. I suspended him for 2 weeks.

Feel free to pull hair and gnash teeth - but I stand by my decision, and would say that your indignation is probably not worth it in this instance.

> 2 week ban for borderline hate speech

I hate sugary donuts and gay goldfish.

I won't apologize kinna sums it the fuck up.......

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

Choggie ... please. I know you have an axe to grind, but what are you after? You pretty much banned yourself. I'm sorry we weren't able to accommodate a 4th channel for your art project.

Joe - why is it you think that just because of having tried to reasonably deal with a persistant dipshit that that makes people "crybabies". And why do you think anyone would be next? I've not seen this kind of thing happen recently or ever (but I haven't been around as long as you). You're no better for bitching and moaning than the rest of us, jump off your high horse why don't you.

This whole issue with him needed to be wrapped up eventually, one way or the other. Things don't always go our way, they haven't for the last 8 months or so that he's been acting like a cunt. Anyway, whatever he'll be back and no doubt as obvious as ever. It's all good, be seeing ya closetboy

Dag,

I have no problems with your rule by consensus and it has worked out well for policy and general issues, but why can't you see the problem with the very corrosive nature of "call-out" sifttalks. Many sites ban such behavior.

People can flag abusive comments. I thought that feature had been implemented. If there is a problem user people can email their complaints, but it is really lame to encourage this behavior of personally motivated public attacks just because someone doesn't like the content of someone's comments. Is this going to be the norm for all trolls? Is this a precedent for dislike of someone's comments? Where is the threshold? Shall I start documenting people making personal attacks on someone's profile and calling them a "douchebag"? Shall I start posting lists of a users comments showing a history of attacking a user or downvoting one users posts?

It works find to flag and discuss a thread where someone has abused the system, like cp420 abuse of categories, and I thought those were highlighted. When people didn't get the resolution they were looking for they just continue to hard upon it until they get someone banned.

I'm more disgusted by the hypocrisy of people calling for banning someone over trolling and then it a fit of irony engage in incessant ad-hom which I thought was a bannable offense.

choggie, I don't understand why you are so obsessed. You could have resolved your issues but decided to take some martyrific stand on it, so why do you still keep at it?

>> ^joedirt:
you know what.. I'm about at my limit with this bullshit.

Joe, you've been "at your limit" ever since I joined this site, with your steady stream of myopic, disgruntled ramblings. I'd like to know what happens when you finally reach this mythical limit?

Another impotent tantrum? Packing your bags and moving out of the basement? Sifticide?

The suspense is yawn inducing. Wake me when we get to the good part.

>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:
Oh, bluecliff, you are too kind. You're making me blush.



It doesn't take a lot to make you blush, does it..
Or is it vice versa?

Joe, I honestly didn't give a shit as to whether cp420 was banned or not. Frankly, I think he is a poor representative of his political point of view, and does more harm than good to his Right wing brothers with all of this outlandish invective.

That said, after two deceptive bait and switch posts (one of which got schmawy banned), and numerous instances of racism and homophobia, this ban shouldn't have been even slightly controversial to anyone (you and -more surprisingly- Farhad included). I know in some weird way you probably mean well, but there is a big difference between a political point of view and hate. I suggest you save your crocodile tears for someone who isn't playing you for a sucker, sucker.

I just wrote this comment to a sifter here, so I might as well share it with you:

Dag, why won't you ban vjdj247365 now, and all choggie's future sock puppets for that matter? You did an IP block after you banned choggie's first sock puppet, right? That tells me that you are banning not just "choggie", but the man who created "choggie" as well. Now I understand he is using dynamic IP technology to get back in. So what gives? Have you given up? It is your site. That means you have to take out the trash when necessary, right? I can understand why no one else instabans him. If you won't do it then everyone else is forced to assume that his presence here is okay. What if CP420 does the same stunt then during his suspension and future permanent ban? (We all know it is coming.) Would you give up with him too?

There may be five crowns here, but it is your kingdom. You ran choggie out of it, but now you are letting his cheaply disguised sock puppets back in. You need to do something or it sends the wrong message to all future problem children. Don't think for a moment that it won't happen again with someone else. Maybe you need to formally tell everyone who is a diamond or above to instaban choggie's sock puppets once they know it is him. No need to wait for the inevitable string of abuse, just instaban him once his identity has been confirmed. I know some here will happily do it, but they don't do it now because you tolerate his presence.

I know you are a good guy with a soft heart. That is why you are more lenient than most would be with the pricks in our midst. I write this with respect because I know you care about this place. Please don't let choggie's sock puppets (chog-puppets?) lower its property value. Are you waiting for him to say "lYNCH nIGGERS" before you ban him again? I think waiting until then is a mistake. I'm not going to wait for some guy in front of my house tossing a rock up and down in his hand to finally haul off and throw it through my front window before I act.

ban everyone who spent time on this boring farce.

" I'm sorry we weren't able to accommodate a 4th channel for your art project."

Bout' as close to asshole as an apology gets-still want back in, you are welcome to ban me,or keep trying to be a sincere asshole-What a dick-less thing to say, Mr.Houston-Again??

CaptWillard sir, I am not using some dynamic jumbo-mamboo, same fucking shitty laptop form the same wireless acct. I have always had, this user here, is my only window, into the land of malk and hooey-Fuck it. Ban this account, because all I will ever use it for is chiming in when bullshit rears it's head if I happen to be standing in front of the train station.......Your ramblings are replete with assumptions, and self-gratifying conclusions, sir-

Don't want back, unless choggie is allowed back-otherwise his is the very last you will see or hear from me, save the wonderful kindred spirits off site, who happened to have found each other here......ta ta folkies.....


and again, "HATERS, are folks who drag non-contextual words form someone's private thread(KP) and share their version of brain-dead with the group-"Lynch-Niggers", was for KP, because he had a problem with process, and asked for my help-remember how he went off on Lucky about the word lynch in the sifttalk post where KP stormed out, tail-tucked and defeated??....again..CONTEXT, DUMBASS!!!.....the word is meaningless outside of it-go back to school, and fuck an English professor-

wtf does lynching have to do with anything you hate about choggie, willy???

MINK:

Congratulations. For the first time in forever you have not used the word "retarded" to describe something that displeases you. Miracles never cease. You been reading the dictionary?

You can always ban yourself, you know. It is called "logging out."

Choggie/cuttlefish/gorgler/MyArmyOfOne/vjdj247365 (and others):

Log out too, why don't you. Make new friends here. They are more your type.

No friendo, you are mistaken, and mean-Fuck You Cappy-You are a dumbass, and a cunt-
"Choggie/cuttlefish/gorgler/MyArmyOfOne/vjdj247365" (and others):right wrong and meaningless. only one, baby-choggie-So fuck your rules, because you hate and accuse one who loves of your own pathetic indulgences-

You no doubt found the site more someone's "type", by searching key words according to your inability to process information properly, objectively, and without the help from your askew'd filter...... in short-YOUR PROCESS????? COMPLETELY FUCKED, CAPATAINT WILLY!" Try Again till you get it right.

Oh btw way willy, what does anything you wrote above actually mean??...Any should be able see the sentiment behind the feeble words, which are simply symbols ordered according to your inability to process information-

Now...and again, piss the fuck off!!! Or come back recalcitrant, and find the love that streams forth, for all from the source of all that lives.

To answer JD: Because there is respect for this user, from way back, and his voice is always a welcome relief from the usual-

Not so much as an obsession, as a diversion-Now that there are no videos to post, no votes to cast, refusing with this user name to add anything but the occasional comment-though have stumbled and voted a few times-WHY? It's a paltry path the admins letting this vjdj97823645shit stay.....choggie by any other name??? No.

yeah chogs' a dubass JD, confidently admitting such does not correct the veracity of your observation-So......thanks for being you mate-and cheers-

I took the trash out for you again, dag. Last time I'm doing it.

Haha. That put a shit eating giggle on my face.

Anyone who's noticed my lack of comments in any of these controversial community squabbles can guess that I'd like nothing more than to distance myself from these pathetic situations. I say pathetic but really it's just this ugly facet of human nature to which I refer. Nature/God/Evolution demonstrates that there must always exist bullies and those who cannot/refuse to get along and share their thoughts with others in a mature, rational way.

Nothing can be said that can change a person like that, so I try to leave everyone to their own devices and mind my own business. However, when someone's fucked up attitude becomes more than that by crossing the line into hatred and virtual assaults, something must be done.

Some people say "So what? Ignore them you pussy." But, really? This community might be virtual but it's filled with real people with real human psyches. If a lot of people feel threatened or intimidated or just generally bothered repeatedly by someone's actions, why should we as the site operators feel compelled to say "Too bad. Go somewhere else if you can't take it, wimp."

We are trying to maintain a grand ol' place where anyone and everyone can enjoy themselves regardless of their personal beliefs. If there's something we can do to help, why would we have any interest in trying to force people to toughen up or gtfo? So only people with a thick skin can participate? To be like YouTube where management doesn't give 2 shits about what anyone says to anyone else?

I don't know what I'm ranting about any more, but all I really wanted to say is dag is completely right in his decision to temp-ban because, as is evidenced by many member comments, CP420 has been hurting the Sift and it's our prime directive to keep a healthy Sift. And alien_concept/burdturgler did nothing wrong by asking the community for opinions. It's a very plain fact that we often refer to the community for many decisions, so there's no reason this partial self-government shouldn't also provide the consensus on which our administrative decisions might be based.

Funny....I count 2 more posts on this thread alone after:
"Don't want back, unless choggie is allowed back-otherwise his is the very last you will see or hear from me"

...and now you got banned again. Go away, you waste of air, and take your shitty grammar with you.

Might I humbly suggest that the "ignore" function be made more powerful? It could actually skip a user in the comment section rather than post their name and an option to unhide their comment. It is just too tempting to unhide the comment "just this once" and get riled up again. Trolls would then be ignored to death when they alienate all the regular commenters.

Secondly, a user could be ignored by default (for new users) once a high number of privileged users put them on their personal ignore list. That would allow the "tough-skinned" users to un-ignore everybody in their account settings, but the average new user wouldn't stumble across posts from trolls leading them to assume that sort of thing was indicative of the site (like YouTube).

I've only ignored two users on this site and they have both been eventually banned, causing turbulence about the decision to ban in both cases. Perhaps if the ignore function was a bit more powerful, the banning wouldn't be necessary.

The Tribe Is Restless.

It's unrealistic to believe that simply banning or temp-banning someone would make that person change his ways in regards to how they interact with the community.

We had this issue back in the day with QM and now we have it with CPN420, BillO is not far behind am sure. You can't reform trolls in anyway, in fact bringing out such length discussions only makes them happier seeing how much they rattled the community.

If you don't like their comments just ignore him this is a feature you people asked for.

If you don't like their post or their renaming of the post, kill it, you people have the power.

If you want to really ban someone, report it to the admins but don't Sifttalk this into a witch hunt.

But don't think that having these lengthy discussions, temp bans and such is going to stop this kind of activity and commentary in the site. This is the internet, not a gated community.

For as many people whose buttons CPN420 pushed there is more people that left as this place got nastier with these kinds of SiftTalks, because it was not the sift they joined.

My personal view is that sift violations where you game the system are more substantial then just someone trying to push peoples buttons, you all fell for CPN420, hes obviously out to piss you people off.

^ That is exactly why I think the enhanced-ignore function should be implemented. It would deprive the trolls of the attention they crave.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

The main reason he was banned Farhad, was for gaming the system - as you mentioned. He would not have been banned for his trollish behavior alone.

Also, I don't think these discussions are all bad. It brings a lot of things out in the open, engages the community and helps to define what's right or wrong on the site. Calling it a "witch hunt" is hyperbole.

He wasn't really gaming the system, he posted a video and changed his naming and tags, I think any of the 250s should have simply killed the video at that point. That would have been the end of it, CPN would be just whining about us being LiberalSift.

It's not a hyperbole I think, I mean if I was checking this website out, and I saw this topic the first thing that would spring to mind is that we are a bunch of elitist bastards.

I don't think these discussions are bad either, but they have become rather uncivilized. Right now we are dealing with it on a case by case occurrence, and it will happen again.

just type and let type, people... and can someone please explain to me why is choggie constantly being banned? I just wanna know what has he actually done, that's all. a real reason, not some bullshit whining about how he gets on your nerves. cause I didn't see him breaking any rules lately... except pissing off KP, maybe. I mean - what's next? throwing people out cause their avatar isn't original enough? ooops...

farhad makes the most important point, that lucky seems oblivious to...

if you have this ridiculous kangaroo court the whole time, you ENCOURAGE members to treat each other as opponents, you ENGOURAGE tribalism and trolls (myself included).

If you had the balls to permaban people for being assholes (and i mean assholes, in attitude, regardless of their beliefs) then you would see benefits.

Me, choggie, and many other people would get banned, and would be forced to at least reregister with a more courteous and thoughtful persona.

but as it stands, i just abuse people and get away with it. they abuse me back. i only stay because i am thick skinned. you lost karaidl and countless others. cp, on the other hand, will be back in 2 weeks. so lucky, i would argue you are causing that which you want to avoid.

I think Farhad is partially right. Siftquistions often suck because they generally bring out the worst in us. They also resemble mob justice. Not good. That is not to say that CP420 didn't deserve what he got. I am saying that we probably could have done it a better way.

I disagree with Farhad on a few counts.

1. Ignoring does not always work. Even if we all used the "ignore" feature CP420 would still write bigoted shit. I don't think the admins here want their site polluted with that crap. It is bad for business, plain and simple.

2. Reporting the problem directly to admins does not always work either. It sometimes takes a show of numbers to make a point. I also don't see greater virtue in privately snitching people out to dag and lucky versus publicly calling someone out. The backbone of a police state isn't the police. It's the snitches. I think we all have a right to know our accuser. If I am not mistaken many justice systems around the world include that feature.

3. Calling what happened to CaptainPlanet a "witch hunt" is indeed a hyperbole, or at least a bad metaphor. Witch hunts were bad for many reasons. The biggest reason: Witches never existed. CaptainPlanet is not a witch. He is a troll. Trolls DO exist.

Some type of overhaul needs to take place to the system of justice around here. Siftquistions are bad, and so is the snitch system, and ignoring is not always an option. Maybe we need Sift Justice? A trial with a jury of your Sift peers? *cueflames. I realize that many of us reflexively shout NO MORE RULES! So what would you suggest? That the current state of affairs is fine? Or that snitching is better? Or that always ignoring is best, even if it turns us into the new YouTube?

I think a new justice system would be the lesser of several evils. Maybe the next time a member crosses a line maybe - just throwing out ideas here - a minimum of three members need to make a formal - not private - complaint to the admins. Then maybe they need to ask several more members if they think the issue needs to be formally addressed. Again it can't be private. If several more members agree then some type of trial needs to be convened, with random members chosen to be on the jury. All out in the open. Transparency must be maintained at all times. How can anyone tell if justice is working if no one can see it happening?

I expect my idea to go over like a lead balloon. People will grumble that it is too complex for a little web community. Maybe they are right. Regardless, the system we have now sucks because it leads to too much acrimony in the community, and snitch justice isn't justice. So decide if you want to try something that might work better, or to just keep gnawing on the same shit sandwich.

Ahem;

Long for channel 2008!

CaptW, that's just untenable as the community grows. If we don't want the sift to turn into trial-a-day, there needs to be a simpler, self-maintaining policy.

It seems to me that if a user gets ignored by a large number of privileged users, that could be used to put them on an auto-ignore list for all users. And the auto-ignore list could be deactivated in your account settings if you enjoy the ramblings of trolls.

It would take some effort to program, but once it was working it would be self-maintaining.

Of course, messing around with video channels and titles would be a separate issue, but it would easier to make rules clear about that.

^I just finished closely reading your idea Max, and it does sound better than mine. It is certainly more elegant. One thing I'd like to see is if a user is being ignored by certain members that it shows who is doing the ignoring. No anonymous accusers for me, please. Still it sounds like a good idea.

I think we should still have some sort of justice system in place - other than what we have now: Siftquisition - for more egregious violations, though I know defining what constitutes an "egregious" violation would be tricky. Hopefully they would be infrequent at best.

Maybe rules need to be defined better too, including the penalties for breaking them.

Regardless of the differences in opinion here I think most will admit that the current system needs to be improved. I hope the admins give our ideas serious thought and devise something new.

These siftquisitions are pretty retarded, from an outsiders perspective.

There is definitely an insidery-clique here at the sift, and the rest of us pretty much just watch&submit videos, and sometimes make funny comments. But we're not all wrapped up in the interpersonal relationships like so many of you are. A lot of us don't know anything about anyone else here, and don't really care. We're here for the videos, not to make "friendz".

At first I was very bothered by BillO, Chog, QM and CP420, but after I figured out they were taking the piss the entire time, I completely chilled out and managed to laugh at their posts. I thought the Islam thing was hilarious, and never "hurt" the sift.

So really, what these threads look like to a lot of us (I'm assuming, using my Logictron XL5000) is a bunch of old ladies clutching their pearls, saying "My heavens!"

oh well, back to videos

ps: How do I know there's cliques here?

Well, a lot of us reach new stars/crowns etc and never have a "CONGRATS TO ____" thread. We just are rewarded silently and privately by Mr.Sifty, and go about our business.

>> ^Farhad2000:
It's unrealistic to believe that simply banning or temp-banning someone would make that person change his ways in regards to how they interact with the community.
We had this issue back in the day with QM and now we have it with CPN420, BillO is not far behind am sure.


With the one exceptiont that BillO tends to play it up as a real "character", so you don't take it seriously (unless you're new here and don't realize he's not a doctor, he's just playing a a talk show host), whereas the others are generally trying to mess with people (i.e., doctoring vid descriptions, which hurts the sift), etc.

>> ^volumptuous:
ps: How do I know there's cliques here?
Well, a lot of us reach new stars/crowns etc and never have a "CONGRATS TO ____" thread. We just are rewarded silently and privately by Mr.Sifty, and go about our business.


CONGRATULATIONS VOLUMPTUOUS FOR PUBLICATION OF STARPOINT #68.

http://www.videosift.com/video/Disney-1946-Story-Of-Menstruation

Seriously, If that vid earned you #69 that would just be kinky in a blankfist/kp way.

I mean, the narrator said "sprouting teeth"...

i think a lot of the posters here need to banned from real life.

1. condemning someone for being anti-homosexual is equally as hateful as condemning someone for being pro-homosexual.
2. failure to cope with "irritants" is just plain immature, and thats an opinion so don't even bother arguing against it.
3. captainplanet420, despite a terrible good/bad post ratio, puts out more "quality" posts than most users here. what does that say about most users here?
4. if you take offense to my saying most of the comments here are "trash," how many star points does it take to get a high horse which permits you to declare his comments "trash" but not me of you?
5. "hate speech" is defined as "speech intended to degrade, intimidate, or incite violence or prejudicial action against a person or group" which i believe makes 95% of the posters in this thread guilty of the same crime captainplanet420 is being charged with.
6. if you are going to apply some kind of "law" here, you should at least be consistent. from my perspective, this "community" is just like a group of middle schoolers who won't let the fat kid play basketball with them because "he ruins the game."
7. my advice for captainplanet420 would be to post links to videosift all over the highest ranked videos on youtube so that he can bring over some "enemies of my enemy.." since this "community" has basically devolved into a pitchfork wielding witch hunt. the only chance a witch has in a lynch mob is to get more witches than "townsfolk".

You've really revealed yourself for who you are (not that it was a secret).
How is pro-homosexual hateful?
What do any amount of posted videos or their quality have to do with breaking the rules of this site?
And so you're advocating he bring more youtube type trash on to this place? If that's what you want, why not just stay at youtube?

He's banned. He'll back with more Segal (and bullshit) in 2 weeks. Get over it.

All out SiftWars.

Everyone who doesn't agree with you or holds other opinions is part of "them". They are somehow defenders or sympathizers with ________ (insert banished username). REVEAL YOURSELF! Are you now or have you ever been a member of the "others". (Insert required Godwin's statement)

Go back to where you came from you gypsy scum. We are superior because we are tolerant, except for people who ask for tolerance. We don't tolerate anyone who is intolerant. Why don't you hang out with your live-and-let-live trash. You're either with us or against us.

If you want to reveal yourself as a homophobic bigot .. go on then.
"1. condemning someone for being anti-homosexual is equally as hateful as condemning someone for being pro-homosexual."
What part of bigot gets past you in this? "Anti-homosexual" should be OK? You know there's laws against that right?

^last i checked there weren't any laws against holding an opinion.

of course, it appears you are quite eager to implement such "laws" on this site. if i get to play a "homophobic bigot" do you get to play a brain-dead nazi? if you get to call me names, why can't i call you names, and why can't captainplanet420 call other people names? what kind of hypocrisy do we have here? the only difference between your comments and captainplanet420's is that you make yours from a podium.

But there are rules against hate speech on this site, thankfully.
And there are rules about abusing privileges .. both of which he was banned for.
Feel free to downvote this comment as well. Won't change a thing.

^if there are rules against hate speech, why is it okay for you to call me a "homophobic bigot". can we ban you too, or are there not enough townsfolk on my side to do a proper lynching?

i mean honestly, the system of "law" here on videosift is rooted in the word "inquisition". its a complete joke.

Are you serious? Or is this one of those sarcastic pranks that I am just supposed to just laugh at? Is it offensive to call a bigot a bigot when he's being a bigot? You want to lynch the person who is calling out the bigot? I'm done indulging you.

>> ^imstellar28:
^if there are rules against hate speech, why is it okay for you to call me a "homophobic bigot". can we ban you too, or are there not enough townsfolk on my side to do a proper lynching?
i mean honestly, the system of "law" here on videosift is rooted in the word "inquisition". nobody finds that a little ironic?