But did he know he was on camera? Did he have a bodycam? The only reason the suspect was seen on camera holding a gun was because the cop backed away. If he had drawn his gun and fired the moment he saw the suspect holding the gun, it wouldn't have been caught on that camera because the suspect was still in the room. Then you would have a situation of only eyewitness testimony. And you would have riots.

I didn't buy anything. There are multiple videos that aren't being shown on most news sites.

Youtube is banning them as fast as they get posted.

Here is one: https://youtu.be/NSU9ZvnudFE

This is from Newsweek(https://www.newsweek.com/kyle-rittenhouse-sef-defense-murder-protests-1528301) who had access to the videos:

How the Kenosha shootings unfolded
In the wake of the shootings, several videos appeared on social media showing the moments before, during and after the first shooting took place.

In one video, Rittenhouse is seen being chased into a parking lot by several people while still armed with his gun.

One man then fires a gun into the air from several feet away from the 17-year-old before several others shots are fired.

In another clip from a different angle, one man seen chasing Rittenhouse appears to lunge at the 17-year-old before the suspect fires at least four times.

A body, later identified as Rosenbaum, is then seen on the ground and is assisted by another male. Rittenhouse appears to make a call on a cellphone before fleeing.

It is unclear why the 17-year-old was being chased in the first place. The parking lot is reportedly around several blocks away from the area he previously claimed to be protecting with the other armed men.

Later on, Rittenhouse is filmed being chased by more people down a residential street. He is seen stumbling and falling to the ground.

One person appears to stomp on him on the ground, before the 17-year-old fires twice, hitting Huber in the stomach and another man, Gaige Grosskreutz, who was carrying a handgun, in the arm.

According to the criminal complaint, an eyewitness video shows Rosenbaum chasing Rittenhouse and throwing what was ultimately determined to be a plastic bag at the suspect, not an incendiary device.

"Rosenbaum appears to be unarmed for the duration of this video," the document adds.

In response to Parkinson's tweet, New York Times columnist Jamelle Bosuie noted: "I have been seeing this everywhere on here. It is an explicit argument that if someone is trying to stop you after you killed someone, you can continue shooting and killing in 'self-defense.'

Parkinson added: "Why leave out during the 2nd shooting, after Rittenhouse trips, he was jumped by several men, including another armed protester, attacked by a skateboard—prior to firing more shots?"

The man holding the skateboard was Rittenberg's alleged second victim Huber, who died after being shot in the chest.

***You'll notice that even some of their videos were removed/banned***

I'm not saying the kid was in the right 100%. He definitely committed the crime of being under aged with a firearm. He shouldn't have listened to right wing calls to go defend property in a different state.

What we have is a kid who heard people shooting, got scared, a 'protester' threw what he thought was an incendiary device at him and he shot that person. He then tried to flee to the police line and you can read what else happened.

Here is the tweet that shows the survivor wishes he had just mag dumped his glock into the teen: https://twitter.com/mrandyngo/status/1299086141329563648

Gaige Grosskreutz, 26. Hes a member of the People’s Revolution Movement. He has numerous encounters with the police but I couldn't find a felony. This was his biggest charge: Go Armed with Firearm While Intoxicated, a class A misdemeanor, Wisconsin Statutes 941.20(1)(b).

Anthony Huber. https://wcca.wicourts.gov/caseSearchResults.html (for some reason it wont link, you can type his name in to see all, but here is one specific one https://wcca.wicourts.gov/caseDetail.html?caseNo=2014CF000057&countyNo=39&index=0)
Online arrest records show Huber was arrested several times on battery, drugs and other charges. He also had a case from 2012 where he was convicted of domestic abuse strangulation and suffocation and false imprisonment with a dangerous weapon, both felonies. Other charges – for second-degree recklessly endangering safety, battery, and disorderly conduct – were dismissed but read in.

Joseph Rosenbaum. https://twitter.com/musicandwhiskey/status/1298861484752035840/photo/1
https://www.rt.com/usa/499205-kenosha-shooting-victim-id/
https://www.bailbondshq.com/arizona/azdoc-inmate-JOSEPH/172556
https://inmatedatasearch.azcorrections.gov/PrintInmate.aspx?ID=172556
Rosenbaum had an open criminal case on battery, disorderly conduct and domestic abuse charges, according to the Wisconsin Circuit Court website. (https://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/ny-kenosha-victims-identified-as-anthony-huber-joseph-rosenbaum-20200827-zvrsv7fpqfftlmjyrtjrmg5wwa-story.html
)

As far as right wing people showing up and pretending to be Antifa, I suppose anything is possible. But most of all these looting and rioting things have been going on since all this shit broke loose months ago. I doubt very much that all of these 'peaceful protestors' are RW loonies. Clearly the 3 that were shot in Kenosha weren't and they were all part of the groups rioting...I mean 'protesting.

There are more videos if you want to find them. Shoot me, N Rosenbaum is seen attacking and throwing something at Kyle. You can see a gun fired as well by someone else. Videos show them chasing a fleeing person, who at that point is being attacked by them. Skater boi was beating him prone with a skateboard. 'Medic' Grosskreutz was carrying a fully fucking loaded Glock 17 and grabbing Kyle's rifle.

You know I don't make up shit like Bob does. But I do look in multiple places to find out what I can before I say something. Like I said, the kid fucked up, but I 100% believe in his mind he was defending himself and trying to reach the police for help.

Lots of good comments here... this might take a while so bear with me.

@Mordhaus, I haven't read that book but I'd be interested to see his sources. Everything I've googled suggests the rate is really low.

As for Ford, obviously, I can't say for certain whether she is telling the truth. She may even believe she is telling the truth and still be wrong. I think she was entitled to the benefit of the doubt in terms of an investigation. Of course, it's possible she was doing this for political reasons, but that feels like a stretch to me.

@bcglorf
In some ways, I can understand the desire to remove the vexatious complaints cause. Coming forward with a report of sexual assault is traumatic enough already.
A) you may not be believed
B) even if you are, you're in for an experience many assault survivors have described as "being raped a second time"
If you add the possibility that your complaint could potentially get you sanctioned if no one believes you, that's a pretty awful situation to be in.

Now, I don't necessarily agree with this stance, but I can understand it. I think you would need to clear a very high bar to prove a complaint is malicious. Presumption of innocence applies to the complainant also.

"The first 3 levels of sexual violence ALL involve no physical contact and are entirely verbal. "
100% fine with this. You can be a creepy sleazebag without touching someone and it's still not ok.

"lots of people are very much arguing that lives should be destroyed then and there"
Sorry, I just don't see it. That said, if there are people arguing for that... I'm against them.

"We'll even right songs to laugh at them when they complain."
This song was mocking the bullshit "it's a scary time to be a man" line, and deservedly so. I'm a man, and I'm not scared of being accused of sexual assault. None of my male friends are scared either. But it fucking crushes my soul to think of how many of the women in my life have ACTUALLY experienced some form of sexual assault (and that's just the ones I know of).

@scheherazade
Completely agree that eyewitness testimony is borderline useless in terms of evidence. Go back through my comment history... you'll see I even said I doubt you could prove Kavanaugh's guilt. All I've ever said is that it warrants an investigation. (sidenote: I totally agree with @vil and @Mordhaus on this... polygraphs are junk science, but Kavanaugh's boorish behaviour should have been grounds not to confirm him).

Regarding your friend that was raped by a girl: that's awful, and yes, we really have to stop this childish attitude of somehow thinking female on male rape is either funny or that the guy was lucky. But it is unrelated to this discussion.

@MilkmanDan, I pretty much agree with everything you've said.

Being falsely accused of rape would be terrible, even if you weren't convicted. No disagreement there at all.

There's such a stark contrast between the tone of the early coverage on that day vs what we see with any incident now. While a few of the presenters made mention of the previous bombing at the WTC, there seemed to be a very strong resistance to suggesting it might have been terrorism. I watched another video recently that was a somewhat similar concept, but was longer and bounced from source to source. In that video as in this one it felt like the various people speaking badly wanted the first impact to have been an accident or an explosion from within the tower, rather than a purposeful attack.

Given that the only footage of that first collision didn't come to light until much later and eyewitness reports are frequently unreliable, "we just don't know" was the best they seemed willing to offer. Until the 2nd plane hit, at which point I think the facts spoke for themselves.

Lol @enoch. Making out is definitely not on the agenda.

And yes, sadly, stupid laws on slander and liability exist. Just like stupid laws exist elsewhere. They are crap and garbage. But if we can go to war over faulty intel, surely our elected officials are dumb enough to let faulty slander go unpunished.

At least insofar that words have little consequences, you can see that by the content I posted right? Where the rapper threatens his wife, an FBI agent, and school children, and gets off without a record (which I forgot to include the children.)

Passing along information goes like this. Is it reasonable to suspect someone is who they claim on the internet? Kind of (Because the internet is impossible to verify ANYONE.) This is important because the "woman" was claiming to be 13, felt sexually harassed in her vulnerable years, etc. It is therefore the child who is calling the harasser a pedio, and the feminist bitch simply repeating a "reasonable-to-believe" statement. Or some such. The offended would have to prove that the comments were A-Factually known by the repeater as inaccurate and B-Damaging, and C-Not made in satire (Go back to the rap video for proof that stupid arguments can be made.) Even the damage could be argued, as what "damages" were caused by that particular comment?

News does this ALL the TIME for effect. A lot of the time they preface comments with such statements as "According to an eyewitness" or "Allegedly" or some other bullshit. But that does little to mitigate false information's impact on people.

No, he raises a point that always should be taken into account. Not that the point is always valid mind you, nor am I saying it is valid here. But to jump on the "police apologist" bandwagon like the billion others for someone simply making that statement shows your bias.

If a description of the video is in the video description then it must be proven to be true, as a description of the content that is patently false (by omission or otherwise) is unacceptable on the Sift. Can't tag this with "cancer" can we? I mean T might have cancer, but nothing indicates such by the video.

If nothing, a link suffices that proves such, whether through eyewitnesses or such. Trust me, I tried to be funny once with the description...description denied...tried to be funny with tag...tag denied...

People enter hell because of their sin and willful rejection of God. You are saying that people have no way of knowing, but the scripture says something different. You say you have never seen or heard anything, but what I find when talking to atheists is that they've had plenty of experiences, supernatural or otherwise, to point them towards God but they chose not to go that way. In any case, I'll be praying for God to speak to you in a way you can understand.

I think you're hung up on some of the wording of Matthew 7:14 where Jesus said there are few who find the narrow way, and not the meaning of it. It is not saying that people through no fault of their own end up on the broad way, the scripture says they enter into it. That implies a choice, and to find is to obtain something, which means they know what they are going after in the first place.

Being paralysed is not the same as death.

Jesus took the entire punishment for sin; He bore the fullness of Gods wrath against sin. The scripture says He was actually made sin for us. Whatever He experienced was far worse than what people experience in hell. No human being could bear that, eternally or otherwise. He could bear it becase He is special, that's the point. He didn't just bear the punishment for sin, He defeated death and disarmed the power of death and hell over human beings, all who put their faith and trust in Him as Lord and Savior.. He came not only to die for our sins, but also for many other reasons, one such reason was to destroy the works of the Devil.

Jesus saw everything pertaining to life and death, to judgment and the afterlife. He is an eyewitness, you simply don't believe Him. Everyone will know Jesus is Lord when they stand before Him; the scripture says that even the demons believe (and tremble). Knowing who He is and knowing Him personally are two different things entirely. If you enter into eternity without knowing Him, then it is too late. If God expects you to know His Son, it stands to reason He will provide a means for you to do so. It is up to you to respond to that.

This is somewhat humorous, although probably less so for the poor guy stuck behind that wall:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=816_1424011880

Hope he was alright, being stuck in that position too long isn't good for one's health.

From http://altapress.ru/story/152132

From Russia.

February 14 Barnaul rescuers, gouging a hole in the wall of the hallway, got out of the ventilation shaft a man who was there for unknown reasons.

Rescuers and medical staff were called by residents, who heard the heart-rending cries for help from their kitchen ventilation. Emergency workers arrived at the scene who gouged a hole in the wall in the hallway and got out a man . According to one eyewitness , during rescue operations man shouted "I go-oo-oo." (? "Я иду-у-у")

After the man was extracted from the ventilation shaft, he was examined by the first aid officers who had arrived.

The accident happened in one of the houses in the area of Barnaul "Malachowski ring."

P.S. Actually, it was a drug addict who was going through a ventilation shaft and climb to rob residents of the house, but fell into the trap and thus no mercy.

P.P.S. he refused hospitalization and ran for a new dose.

Lyrics from the YT page:

1,2,1,2,3,4
We accept her, one of us, we accept her, one of us!
Gooble gobble gooble gobble!
We accept her, we accept her!
We accept her, one of us, we accept her, one of us!
Gooble gobble gooble gobble!
We accept her, we accept her!

(We-we) we came, we saw, we kicked it's ass,
I was testing you - and you passed,
Dental plan! Lisa needs braces,
Be required to fart on a regular basis,
I'm gonna make him an offer he can't refuse,
Channel 13 - Eyewitness news!
Robocop, who is he?
Dead or alive you're coming with me.

In a hurry to be fed, beady eyes and big blue head.

I'm telling the truth Doc, you gotta believe me,
Why does everything I whip leave me?
My beautiful chocolate! Candy is dandy,
Fava beans and a nice Chianti,
You can count on Slippery Pete,
Suicide will be nice and neat!
I didn't build the Panama canal,
Open the pod bay doors please, HAL,

These aren't the droids you're looking for,
These aren't the droids we're looking for,
I am not a number I am a free man!
Rosebud.
To The Idiotmobile!
Right away Michael,
I-I-I-I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered.

We came, we saw, we kicked it's ass,
You don't understand I coulda had class,
Round and tasty on a bun,
Ooh Zippy look what you've done!
Finally! Cast off those lines!
No, I've been nervous lots of times,
Red Rum! What's the matter honey?
Just robbed Boss Hogg all of his money!

We came, saw, we kicked it's ass,
Writing checks your body can't cash,
I was elected to lead, not read,
I feel the need - the need for speed,
Watch out for snakes, a good man's loafer,
HQ - my hat looks like a muffin - over,
My god it's full of stars,
There was no driver in the car..

In the car (repeat)

Well you see I'm in hot pursuit!

There are only two things I love in this world - everybody and television!
#The Simpsons
#Run With Us!
Ugh - you must be shrooming,
Wait for me Moomin!
Cross live to meet the host of that show, Meat Boy,
I want to go to there.

We came, we saw, we kicked it's ass,
An oil tycoon - like a.. moustache,
Nice beaver! I just had it stuffed,
I don't give a shit, close enough,
Where's me washboard? I'll get me coat,
Y-y-y-you're gonna need a bigger boat,
What'd she say? I think she bought it,
Suck it monkeys! I'm goin' corporate!
C'mon let's take a drive! A drive?
Number 5 is alive!
It's only a laugh, no harm done,
Pickles, french fries, yum yum yum,
Bueller, Bueller, Bueller,
It's 2 degrees cooler,
The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long,
Six words in the whole song.

We-we-we accept her, one of us, we accept her, one of us!
Gooble gobble gooble gobble!
We accept her, we accept her!
You are number 6 5 4 3 2
I am not a number, I am a free man

We came, we saw, we kicked it's ass,
Give me my 20,000 in cash,
We came, we saw, we kicked it's ass,
I think you woke up the dead with that blast
We came, we saw, we kicked it's ass,
I think fast, I talk fast,
We came, we saw, we kicked it's ass,
Lois, this is not my Batman glass,

No pictures, no video, only eyewitness reports and the FAA saying "Nothing there." Yeah ok rock solid.

Eyewitness reports = Nothing in my book, might as well have been a squirrel.

human garbage.
Sorry, no justice for someone so far gone-
Britain has quite a reputation for brawlers, yobs...Would most eyewitnesses there immediately call 999 if they witnessed this? I know if this happened in Texas there would be at least 3 people chasing this asshole down to throttle him, before the police got him....The constabulary once he'd been arrested would not treat him much better.
He'd be handcuffed to a hospital bed.

Personally, if I had seen it, I would have stalked the guy after finding scrap metal or a 2X4 had I no aeresol can and lighter.

Raise your hand if you are the nephew of someone who did this while show-boating as a teenager. While practicing (for the 5th time) his quick draw interpretation, "BOOM!" the slug lodged in his holster as it bruised his thigh....he screamed like a girl (so goes the story from eyewitnesses during holidays) when he thought he'd been shot!! HA-HA FOR YOU, UNCLE!! "DUUUUUUuuuuuuRRRR!???"

Dad deserves to be punished. However that is the worst eyewitness ever. Why is he quoting the father saying "football" over and over and the video shows them playing baseball, mitts and all. Posting the video and giving interviews? He sounds like he wants his 15 mins of fame. He even says "once I found out who he was" like he was really impressed at this bigwig that he outed. Maybe Water Dept Officials are like rock stars in that shithole dryland. (nice lush yard , Mr Water Bigwig).

In this case, I stand by "it has nothing to do with race". In the equivalent situation (Baltimore, black thugs/gang, drunk victim) put a black person in the victim's place and nothing changes. Actually, they may have killed/maimed the black victim. The white dude got off light, for Baltimore.

Anyway, they don't scream racial epithets. There is no evidence he was targeted due to being white.

_________________________________________________________________________

I say the Zimmerman case is about race because of Zimmerman's history of profiling black males as criminals. Even the black neighbor who praised Zimmerman said he was uncomfortable walking in his own neighborhood because of the profiling. That's pretty damning in itself.

I say it's about race because Zimmerman's only rationale for pursuing Martin with a loaded gun was his appearance.

I say it's about race, because Zimmerman on the 911 call called Martin a "coon".

I say it's about race due to the (in)actions of the police:
-A homicide goes down and the admitted killer is let go after a couple of hours due to his word in the absence of video or consistent eyewitness accounts? No thorough investigation while they held him? When have you ever heard of that happening? I have black friends who have been wrongly held for days on much less serious allegations.

-The victim, a young teenager, is not identified for days. On that night, the police didn't even canvas the community he was walking in to find out who he was. Can you imagine that happening to any of your teenage friends/relatives? I would think anyone would assume a normal teenager would have concerned parents worried about his absence. And at least look in the most likely place for the parents: the immediate neighborhood.

-They've corrupted the chain of evidence so much, the case had to be taken out of their hands

-This department has a history of mistreating blacks

Plenty of evidence and observations that can't reasonably be explained any other way.>> ^chilaxe:

>> ^longde:
Happens often enough; where are all those national stories?
And for you to level such a broad accusation, you have to show some proof/evidence/facts. Where are these videos you speak of where we without reason mislabel a hate crime?
>> ^chilaxe:
If the ethnicities were reversed, everybody above saying it's not a hate crime would be saying it's without a doubt a hate crime. It'd also be national news.


On the other video, you said: "This crime has nothing to do with race."
"Nothing to do with race" seems to be going a bit far, but the general argument could be reasonable.
If we believed in those standards, we'd apply them to the Trayvon Martin case.
We'd say the critical factors in Martin's case weren't about race, because Zimmerman's black neighbor said he'd have done the same thing, and any teenager who presents himself to the world as being part of gang culture would have a problem in a gated community that's having a problem with crime.