Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

I liked the one in the top 15 a lot. Especially how it showed the cutting-away from the soap opera. It really puts you there in that time.

I have discarded it though, and the stablized Zapruder film. So no more gray area. I have to go now, I'm late for a Harry Potter book burning.

maybe it's best, dag ... with the zapruder film on the front page in the top 15 list ... it may be sending conflicting messages.

In reply to your comment:
“jeez, do we need to put something on the submit page? "Don't submit Sadam's Execution"”

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

I guess I've seen that Zapruder film so many times that I am numb to its snuff-ness. However, perhaps for clarity's sake, we should remove it, and the "historical context" loophole - as that opens a wide swathe of gray area, of which the Saddam video is a prime example.

This video is only days away from being a Toby Keith music video.

And then we will have to re-argue whether the music outweighs the snuff. If Toby Keith, then probably not.

To me, the key is the context for the VS no-snuff rule. The Zapruder film would be valid in a larger documentary about the Kennedy assassination.
You should be able to post something informative and illuminating about the Rape of Nanking here. You should not be permitted to post rapes in Nanking.

The Saddam snuff video as posted doesn't really tell a story. It may be political but it is an extremely weak historical document.

Wow. My first attempted bannation. I don't know what to say accept that I


A) Felt that the video does indeed hold some historical/politcal significance, both in the sense of the event itself as well as the controversy surrounding it's airing/existence. My post of it was therefore an attempt to spawn discussion of it and was not meant to offend anyone.

and

B) I did so somewhat prematurely, before I noticed this discussion thread, which obviously would have negated my desire to post it... as you're all obviously already talking about it, picking sides, etc etc etc.

So, to everyone who's toes I've stepped on, I apologize only for my negligence in research before posting, not however for offending you, because y'all can always choose not to watch.... and I do believe that videos of the 'snuf' vein, are capable of being the occasional exception.



Ciao.

Raven

PS I do believe this video will one day be compared with the Zapruder film for its politcal relevance... as it will no doubt spawn as much discussion and perhaps even more of a politcal-shit-storm over the next few years.

First, I really want to apologize to anyone who was offended by my posting the video (well, except theo, who was kind of a dick about it). That certainly wasn't my intent, and had I read this thread before posting, I assure you I wouldn't have done it.

While I've been viewing and voting here for some time, this is only the second time I've attempted posting (first was a dupe), and that's the currency that rightfully determines value and authority on the site. I wholly understand that all y'all stars and diamonds and esp. dag say what goes, and I'm eager to abide. This site is important to me for a number of reasons, and I would never want to do anything to jeopardize or compromise it in any way.

I posted the video because I believe it's of significant historical importance. I thought, like the Zapruder film, that outweighed the nature of the content.

I believe the Sadaam video is important both for the event that it depicts and as an artifact itself, as it seems probable it was sanctioned by the authorities as a way to get the imagery out to the Iraq (and U.S.) populace without being responsible for airing 'officially sanctioned' footage of a morally questionable nature.

Also, as ren mentioned in the discussion about promoting the ambushed convoy in Iraq footage, "[s]houldn't people see the deaths they are partly responsible for?" I don't believe in forcing anyone to watch anything, but I do believe strongly in making information, especially primary source material of historically significant events, freely available.

That aside, I think farhad makes compelling arguments for the greater historical significance of the Kennedy assassination to the deciders on the site, and the most salient point regarding the Zapruder footage itself seems to be that it carries information pertaining to the still disputed nature of the event, which doesn't immediately seem to be the case with the Sadaam video. Both reasons seem completely sound and more than enough to make the distinction.

But bottom line, this distinction, while appreciated and arguably important, is ultimately unnecessary. The site can and does fully function on a one-off, "I-know-it-when-I-see-it" basis, and while the more concrete codification of the policies will make issues like this more clearcut for submitters in the future (as will my better keeping up with Sift Talk), they aren't completely necessary given the filters in place, and may (unnecessarily?) preclude important footage like Zapruder's in the future.

Just trying to contribute to the discussion. Seeing as I still haven't been able to contribute a video....

Ladybug makes a good point. We can always apply the imprimitur of "historical weight" when justifying either a guy hanging with a broken neck or a guy with pieces of his skull blown into the air.

Video of Mussolini being crucified upside down and dragged through the streets doesn't belong on the Sift. I don't think the Zapruder film without any other context belongs either. Even though both are historically momentous.

The Saddam execution video qualifies as objectionable because its only purpose is to show a killing. Or maybe the amazing things you can get with a cellphone these days. I can see the Verizon commercial now.

JFK's assassination is an important historical event. Mainly due to the US goverment stating that he got shot from the Texas Book Depository which would be a head shot to the back, and not back and to the left as shown in the Zapruder film. It was the start of the end of the first Roman Catholic President and Camelot as a whole.

His death lead to the swearing in of Lydon B. Johnson as president and almost immediate escalation of American involvement in South East Asia, based principally on the Gulf Of Tonkin incident. When JFK at the time was himself considering disengaging from pursuing a 'proxy war' with US troops against the Soviet Union and Communism in general.

Beyond the obvious questions of goverment involvement and knowledge of the assassination attempt, the strange circumstances of the event, the fact that the assassin clearly left a trail to be found, got assassinated two days later by Jack Ruby for unknown and unclear reasons. The basic fact remains that if JFK had lived our world would be vastly different then what it is now. Thus the videos posted form important historical artifacts.

Saddam Hussein, and the video that was posted was enough. We don't need to see him hanging. I would apply the same historical reverence to any execution video, as I do not believe executions are historic events. They are subjective to the people who suffered from the tyranny of others.

i think this video sneaks around the snuff rule due to its historical nature ... previously discussed when the zapruder film was posted ...

I thought the Zapruder film needed to be here in some way.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

Awesome, looked like it was really going to do it there for a minute. I like the stabilisation they did on the movie. Reminds me of the cleaned up Zapruder film.