Carl Clement The cost of oil skyrocketed because of the herding mentality on Wallstreet and riskless profiteering. It is always a guarantee to buy oil in the spring and sell in the fall because of the herding mentality of daytraders. Oil is not run by s...
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Kyle Arsenault Oil futures ARE however traded based on predictions of demand. That increases the price. Also, I recognize that you pay based on your usage alone, but whenever a company has to deal with increased demand, their operating costs also increase. Must I give an example? wireless telcoms have to invest in more towers and faster technologies to keep up with the large demand from mobile broadband users. You may only use 250MB/month, but 1000 other people using 5GB/month means the company has to act to support that usage. They then charge all of their customers more to offset the higher operational costs.

Carl Clement ‎(1) Oil Futures: How much of that is actual demand and just riskless profiteering? There was no rise in demand when Libya was under turmoil; yet the price of oil jumped drastically. It was a prediction from the supply side and not demand side; however, no oil field was at risk in Libya. Which means a bunch of daytraders used that current event to stage a rise in oil prices.

(2) Regarding your example, that's because wireless telecoms offered unlimited GB plans at the beginning without any regard to cost. Tim Gonzales has an unlimited plan and claims that he will never get rid of it, because it doesn't matter how many GB he uses, he still pays the same (AKA flat rate). It's different with electric because I pay by the KWH; therefore, if I use more KWH, I pay more. That is fair and that is capitalism.

(3) Let's just say they do have higher operational costs because of my overusage that gets passed on to the consumer: That money would go to the hiring of more workers, which increases costs; however, it would also lead to upgrades in facilities which can actually lead to a larger operational decreases. It's not a black and white argument like you think.

I think I proved my point here, peace!

Kyle Arsenault I never said futures are only traded on predictions of demand, but that's a large part of it. Regardless of all else, why waste just because you can?

Carl Clement I never said I was wasting it; what if I like to live comfortably. I think if you can afford to live more comfortably, it is your right. I cook at home because I don't want to waste tons of money on restaurant food. I allocate that money saved from restaurants to energy and women. If you really want to know what the waste of money is, it's taking women on dates. I spent 75-dollars on Sushi the other day, which more than double my electricity bill

Kyle Arsenault Holy shit, that is a waste. I bet you left hungry, too.

Tim Gonzales You know they are asking you this because Texas is experiencing a lot of issues with huge blackouts that are happening? It's been a really hot summer, people have been using more electricity to power their ACs, and they have been having trouble.

The issue with your thought pattern here is that if everyone keeps up doing what your doing you'll wind up sitting in the dark with no AC on a very hot summer.


Carl Clement Don't care, I pay for it, it's my right...


Tim Gonzales I can't wait to see how pissed off you get when they have to shut off your power because they don't have enough. They are just asking you to conserve so they don't have to ration. Stop acting like they are threatening your rights for a service that you chose to utilize over alternatives.

Kyle Arsenault There's also the greater picture point of view, too:

It's your right to waste what's yours, but chances are that power is being generated by consumption fuels that have limited quantities and are incredibly polluting.


Tim Gonzales Also, you don't have a right to use somebody else's services. Just an FYI. You can use it because they let you. Saying you have a right to some business' service is actually socialist.


Carl Clement ‎@Tim, stop being a moron. I pay for it, the more I use the more I pay. It's capitalist, not socialist. And if their electricity goes out, oh well, looks like I am going to go find another electric company. That is the beauty of capitalism, competition.

@Kyle I do not acknowledge pollution arguments because like religion, ghosts, and aliens arguments for and against are mostly faith based...

Craig Arsenault yes it is your right. I don't think anyone is arguing that point. But as people use more and more electricity (man it must be nice to be paying that little a month - my bill was 200 with the thermostat set at 78) to keep thier houses at 56 degrees, the demand will outweigh the supply, and utility companies will be forced to introduce rolling blackouts to prevent brownouts.


Carl Clement Then I will just leave one company and go to another...

Craig Arsenault yes it is your right. I don't think anyone is arguing that point. But as people use more and more electricity (man it must be nice to be paying that little a month - my bill was 200 with the thermostat set at 78) to keep thier houses at 56 degrees, the demand will outweigh the supply, and utility companies will be forced to introduce rolling blackouts to prevent brownouts.


Carl Clement Then I will just leave one company and go to another...

Craig Arsenault And dude, learn how the grid works before you think you can just jump to another provider if brownouts happen.

Kyle Arsenault Ugh. Read more Carl. You ARE a smart guy. Coal fired plants also release:
220 tons of hydrocarbons. Fossil fuels are made of hydrocarbons; when they don't burn completely, they are released into the air. They are a cause of smog.

125,000 tons of ash and 193,000 tons of sludge from the smokestack scrubber. A scrubber uses powdered limestone and water to remove pollution from the plant's exhaust. Instead of going into the air, the pollution goes into a landfill or into products like concrete and drywall. This ash and sludge consists of coal ash, limestone, and many pollutants, such as toxic metals like lead and mercury.

225 pounds of arsenic, 114 pounds of lead, 4 pounds of cadmium, and many other toxic heavy metals.

10,000 tons of sulfur dioxide. Sulfur dioxide (SOx) is the main cause of acid rain, which damages forests, lakes and buildings.

10,200 tons of nitrogen oxide. Nitrogen oxide (NOx) is a major cause of smog, and also a cause of acid rain.

Carl Clement It is completely faith based. It assumes that Carbon Dioxide is a pollutant; which it is a greenhouse gas, not a pollutant. And if the world was really concerned about greenhouse gas emissions, then they would tell us to quit meat; because cows are responsible for the largest quantity of Greenhouse gases. The CO as a "pollutant" is just another way to redistribute wealth in the world..

Kyle Arsenault People need meat to live. No one needs an SUV or a motherfucking Hummer.


Craig Arsenault the CO2 is not a pollutant. All the shit coming out of coal stacks is.

I understand you have several options. I do as well, and make the conscious decision to pay an extra cent per kw/h to receive 100% renewable energy. (at least that's where my provider gets their juice from.) Different providers all still use the same lines. So if Green Mountain is your provider, but reliant goes down in your area, and they maintain the lines, your still screwed.


Craig Arsenault Kyle, your wrong there. pretentious asshole douche bag jersey shore fags do.


Craig Arsenault Oh and men with small penises, or woman with oversized clitorises.


Tim Gonzales I hope you realize the severity of the power issue in your state. You're about to get power rationed to you or the rate jacked way up if you don't start cutting back on your energy consumption. Or you'll just be sitting in the dark for a few days.


Zakharov Sawyer Carl, there are many people I know who would make a claim like the one you did above: Never did I ever think you would be one of them. Needless to say, you've lost a bit of respect from me.

Carl Clement It is not your decision nor mine to tell somone what they can and cannot buy. If it's on the market and available, they have a right to buy it.

You are always going to have impacts on the environment no matter what type of energy you use. Unintended consequences of environmentalism have plagued us from nearly a century. Ethanol creates supply shortages that causes all food prices to rise, in the name of environmentalism. Malaria killed thousands because of the crusade against DDT. The Green energy fad has caused factories to produce so inefficiently that they need subsidies to survive. I am not denying that coal is a pollutant, but don't bring global warming into it. It is completely faith based...


Carl Clement http://cei.org/studies-poi​nt/when-politics-kills-mal​aria-and-ddt-story

Kyle Arsenault People either die from DDT or malaria. Many more would die from DDT. Also, factories that produce with green energy do so at their choice, and consumers choose to pay more for that feature.

Kyle Arsenault Also, that assumes that the method of generation for a company's electricity somehow plays a role in how effiecient their workers/machines are.


Tim Gonzales I agree that you have the freedom to consume as much energy as you want but the company also has the freedom to cut you off too.


Zakharov Sawyer Carl, can I ask you why you have this "belief" that science if a "belief" based system? I'm trying to comprehend and follow along with your logic here, but I am finding myself challenged in understanding your thought processes here.


Carl Clement But once again it's someone's freedom to buy or use it. It may not be right for me or you; however, that doesn't give me or you the right to tell someone that cannot buy something because we refuse to buy it.

Kyle Arsenault I assume you're talking about DDT there, and if it could cause health problems to me, then yes, it's my right to say they can't use it.


Tim Gonzales Kind of like when you go to the bar and the bartender feels you've had enough. It's not like the energy company gets their power from the Power Fairy. It's a limited resource and when it's gone, it's gone. Their duty right now is to get as many people power as possible, but they can't do it unless people cut back temporarily.


Craig Arsenault Just because its on the market doesn't mean people buy it and/or use it. case in point. ---->http://tinyurl.com/3k4aohv

Kyle Arsenault It fucking DOES matter. If water were a limited resource and I caught you watering your goddamn lawn, I'd cut your testicles off.

Zakharov Sawyer Carl, there's a difference between capitalism and a sense of entitlement. As others have said, it's your right to use as much of it as you want, but when they have to cut people off, they will start with the people like you. In effect, it's similar to how Verizon, AT&T and other providers are moving away from Unlimited Bandwidth plans: People abused it. Now they are putting a controlled system in place.

And what isn't a limited resource?


Craig Arsenault I tried to find somehting a little more depraved than that, but not being part of that subculture, I wasn't sure on how to go searching for it.

Carl Clement Everything is a limited resource...
Because it's not science Zac, it's politics that governed science. You should read about the corruption in the global warming science:
http://www.google.com/host​ednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ih​8tN0HG8r4dZ4JCahzQSONaG3ww​?docId=7ce6cb2f44114ba8808​93ea4698bd796


Zakharov Sawyer I know all about the corruption in that science, which is why I always get my information from as many sources as possible, including contacting people who work in these industries and fields. I have made many friends this way.

Also Carl, keep in mind: If there's corruption on one side, there's corruption on the other. It's like that with everything. If you deny that, you're worse off then I thought.


Craig Arsenault there have been some enourmous strides in the technology of water filtration systems that require hardly any, or no power at all to operate

Craig Arsenault http://www.futurity.org/sc​ience-technology/nano-cott​on-filters-third-world-wat​er/

Carl Clement And I think if I pay for a service based on a % that I use, then I can use whatever I want. I pay more for more of it. I believe the same for water, because there are other ways to get water. There will always be more water and electrity, no matter how much they make you think there isn't. They can build more plants and/or desalinization plants. Scarcity is an illusion in the US used for political gain...

Craig Arsenault Now, desalinization is something else., but for the most part, its the CLEAN drinking water they dont have.

Craig Arsenault No one has said you cant use it. What were saying is that its a douche bag thing to say. So if your prepared to accept your role in life as a douche bag, then find your way to the nearest spray tanner, set that shit on level "situation", and have fun with life.

Zakharov Sawyer Craig makes a good point.

Not everything is a limited resource. Solar power is technically infinite. Hydroelectric, geothermal, ocean current, solar.

However, "energy" is an abstract concept when it comes to actual existence. Things like water, coal, oil, they ARE limited. I agree that the actual amount may be up to debate, but if you are saying there is an unlimited amount of oil and coal you are technically saying there is an unlimited number of dinosaurs, which we all know is not true.

Kyle Arsenault Yes, you pay more, but when companies are forced to build more plants, they will raise their rates for EVERYBODY to cover the costs.

Carl Clement That's the problem these days. Being free spirited and individualistic gets you the label of douchebag. It's all about being part of "the community."

Kyle Arsenault No, it's not. It's all about not being a wasteful prick. Again, your waste contributes to higher costs for all parties.


Craig Arsenault No its not at all (in regards to part a). As far as part b goes, yes, its about your fellow man. When everyone sets their A/C on polar bear, the blackouts come and then everyone who WAS being responsible now has to suffer.

Zakharov Sawyer Where I am in life, with everything I've done, the work I do now, the intelligence I've gathered, my degrees and the like, I could feel like a self-entitled individual as well. But, I live content within my means. If someone tells me to cut down on something I pay for, I wouldn't feel like they are stepping on my toes. Remember, you are paying for a CONVENIENCE. Something I feel you are taking for granted.


Carl Clement So energy might as well be owned by the government and we be given an energy ration every month so that EVERYONE on the commune can coexist peacefully?

Kyle Arsenault WHo the fuck said anything about that? We're talking about not being wasteful MONUMENTAL difference.