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Trump: Biden Will "listen to the scientists"

noseeem says...

in general, hindu eschatology resembles the big bang/crunch. the cycle of expansion from a single point only to collapse to another single point and another expansion. these cycles are billions of years apart. (also some idea - that's too fuzzy to recall in detail - about matter changing and slipping into an alternative dimension might be a model of the great beyond)

will use Russell Bertrand - although not a poet, have read poetry that echos this thought (not gonna search) almost verbatim - when he said, “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.” this was pretty much summed up the Dunning-Kruger Effect. (https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/355363-one-of-the-painful-things-about-our-time-is-that)

the other you noted. meditation is healthy. of note, Sufism tends to focus on intense focusing, in music and song...and some of the musicians are peachy keen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QRivHR0c28

and the poetry is beautiful (EX: Rumi). so religion has spawned some good things, too.

in short, religion is no more destructive than the person implementing it. do believe in ideas. whether it comes from a white cassock or lab coat. such is the freedom to keep a mind free.

or take it up w/René Descartes*. he seemed to be better at it than I.

*Descartes died when he was run over by a horse-drawn coach. This is where the saying "Don't put Descartes in front of the horse."

BTW: Earle song?

newtboy said:

Yes, some brains rot faster than others, but religion is like aerating the compost and adding lime, it accelerates the rot of all minds exponentially.

Ok...you're going to have to provide more details when you say some astrophysics resembles Hindu theology. I studied Hinduism and astrophysics and see no correlation.

Some religious practices, like meditation, are supported by psychology as beneficial, but absolutely not for the reasons the religions claim, and most aren't supported by science by any stretch of the imagination.

Not a single supernatural claim from any religion is supported by any real science, maybe by pseudoscience, but that's not science, it's snake oil salesmanship.

Give specific examples of poets that perfectly described specific areas of psychology without any evidence to extrapolate from please, that's a wild claim to make without evidence. Please don't say Nostradamus.

What "source" are you referencing, you listed none I can see.

That which can be claimed without evidence can be discarded without evidence.

Trump: Biden Will "listen to the scientists"

newtboy says...

Yes, some brains rot faster than others, but religion is like aerating the compost and adding lime, it accelerates the rot of all minds exponentially.

Ok...you're going to have to provide more details when you say some astrophysics resembles Hindu theology. I studied Hinduism and astrophysics and see no correlation.

Some religious practices, like meditation, are supported by psychology as beneficial, but absolutely not for the reasons the religions claim, and most aren't supported by science by any stretch of the imagination.

Not a single supernatural claim from any religion is supported by any real science, maybe by pseudoscience, but that's not science, it's snake oil salesmanship.

Give specific examples of poets that perfectly described specific areas of psychology without any evidence to extrapolate from please, that's a wild claim to make without evidence. Please don't say Nostradamus.

What "source" are you referencing, you listed none I can see.

That which can be claimed without evidence can be discarded without evidence.

noseeem said:

some brains are more prone to 'rot' than others. belief is unlikely as a leading cause. EX: google: Nobel winner in 'racist' claim row

w/o other examples would point out some astrophysics theories resemble Hindu theology. some religious practices are supported by scientific studies in the area of psychology.

additionally, some poets were errorless when pointing out the truth of human behavior before there was scientific evidence to prove the stanzas.

seemly, there are diamonds and ore in the mines of all people. (note the prior source for verification)

humility can keep all on their toes.

we all make mistakes...hell! voted for reagan once!

being wrong is the only thing most folks can count on. don't know anyone hasn't done this kinda thing ->please Google: Steve Earle & The Dukes - "If I Could See Your Face Again" and listen to one of the world's greatest regrets

listening to that, thinking of covid and the potus' ultimate 'success' rate, hard to miss the truth of it all

Trump: Biden Will "listen to the scientists"

noseeem says...

some brains are more prone to 'rot' than others. belief is unlikely as a leading cause. EX: google: Nobel winner in 'racist' claim row

w/o other examples would point out some astrophysics theories resemble Hindu theology. some religious practices are supported by scientific studies in the area of psychology.

additionally, some poets were errorless when pointing out the truth of human behavior before there was scientific evidence to prove the stanzas.

seemly, there are diamonds and ore in the mines of all people. (note the prior source for verification)

humility can keep all on their toes.

we all make mistakes...hell! voted for reagan once!

being wrong is the only thing most folks can count on. don't know anyone hasn't done this kinda thing ->please Google: Steve Earle & The Dukes - "If I Could See Your Face Again" and listen to one of the world's greatest regrets

listening to that, thinking of covid and the potus' ultimate 'success' rate, hard to miss the truth of it all

Of Course I'm Trying To Indoctrinate You In My Beliefs

newtboy says...

Bullshit. Christians can and do wear religious iconography in jewelry, tattoos, clothing, and display stupid slogans, posters, statues, etc at workplaces.
They can't hold prayer services in some workplaces, and can in others. But why would you want that anyway? To be fair and legal, we would have to allow anyone and everyone to do the same. Do you want Satanists, minions of Mot, Soldiers for Shiva, Pagans, Norse, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Hindu, Pastafarians, Rastafarians, Wikans, Jedi, etc to all spend the day praying with a legal right to ignore work to do so?
This is about as rational as claiming there's a "war on Christmas" because some people don't say Merry Christmas reflexively two dozen times a day all December.

Really? Trumpeteers get beaten up for hat wearing? I seriously doubt it, please post the video.

Insulted, well, calling people in MAGA hats (not MEGA, can't even get your own slogan's acronym right) idiots, ignorant, or just brain dead morons isn't pure insult when it's so often just statement of fact. I've never met one willing to wear the hat in public with an IQ greater than 100 (paid talking heads don't count, since they so often turn on Trump as soon as he stops paying them), and I know plenty with an IQ seemingly well below 80 that won't leave the house without it.

Compared to those wearing an Obama or Clinton hat/shirt in the south over the last 9 years, MAGA morons are treated like princes and princesses.

bobknight33 said:

Liberals have been marching loudly past 30 years not tip towing.
So much so a Christian can not show faith at work, they are shamed in public. One could argue the opposite, Its time for Christian to stand up.

Also same to politics. Trump supporters get beaten up, insulted in public. One can't wear MEGA hat to events ( except Trumps) , or Starbucks.. That's not Liberals tip toeing around its full on frontal assault.

I grew up in the Westboro Baptist Church.

poolcleaner says...

Cool. Coming out of a baptist family I get it, even if i was never that extreme -- westboro... i knew some families sort of like them though... home schooled on the belief that the Bible is the ultimate framework for governing. Not too far off from the us versus them. Same family that taught an anti-evolution class for our youth group. *shudder*

I became an indignant atheist not long after leaving religion. Now, I embrace Took me many a long night hating on religious people.

Until I had a long conversation with a friend who was a microbiologist, observing evolution on a daily basis, and maintaining a healthy Christian perspective. (Well, at the time it was... now he is sort of Phelping me. It's really hard for me still, to accept religious people, even when almost everyone I know is -- many of whom will always judge me for who I am.)

I mostly enjoy the diversity among my Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Atheist, Buddhist, and Hindu brothers and sisters. They just need to respect my beliefs and recognize that I am not recruiting them and they are not recruiting me. Atheists are the worst at this.

As long as there is seperation of church and state. That is an important concept in maintaining a diverse nation open to dialog like she suggests.

Also, opening dialog with people only works if they reply back hahaha -- most of the angry internet people i know post across a wide array of websites and don't really return for replies that often.

Will Smith slams Trump

ChaosEngine says...

So which is it?

Either you can be a Christian or a Muslim and apply your own morality to your religion ...

or

you're not a Christian or a Muslim unless you're a literal fundamentalist?

Given there isn't really some kind of central authority on who is or isn't Christian, Muslim, Hindu or whatever, I think it's fair to say that if you believe in the general tenets of your religion, you are a christian/muslim/pastafarian.

IMO, most people are generally good despite their religion. While a few do good works because of their religion, almost everyone ignores the outdated bits (slaverly, etc)

newtboy said:

Then I claim that they aren't actually Christians. The bible is clear on most of that, like stoning to death infidels. If they don't believe in that, what they believe is the word of god, then they are just selective fans of Christianity and not actual Christians.

That is exactly the argument given to paint all Muslims as death dealing fanatics, that their holy book demands it so they must be...turn about is fair play.

Indiana Jones & Pascal's Wager: Crash Course Philosophy #15

MilkmanDan says...

Somewhat disappointed that he didn't include my personal favorite argument against Pascal's Wager: conflicting faiths.

Instead of a 4-cell chart (2x2 from believe/don't believe and god exists/doesn't), the chart should arguably be a LOT bigger. Plenty of individual branches of Christianity will tell you that *their* specific brand is the only one that will get you into heaven. And that's just relatively minor distinctions -- different sorts of Protestants, or Protestants vs Catholics, etc. We haven't even got to Christianity vs Judaism vs Islam -- all of which fall under the "Abrahamic" umbrella -- but very few Christian faiths think that Jews or Muslims are just as eligible to enter heaven as they are (or vice-versa). From there you can get to things as disparate as Hindu vs Ancient Egyptian vs Zoroastrianism, and everything else.

With that sort of chart, it is just as easy to say that choosing to believe in the *wrong* god could possibly be associated with a more negative outcome than washing your hands of it and going Atheist. Maybe I chose to believe in Ra the Sun God when Zeus ends up being the one true deity. Come to find that Zeus, as it turns out, tolerates people who don't believe in him as long as they don't believe in one of his competitors (like Ra). Therefore I get a lightning bolt to the keyster and a trip to Hades while my nonbeliever buddy gets a ticket to Elysium.

Of course it's all a load of bollocks, but if your argument is a load of bollocks (like Pascal's wager) you don't get to complain when somebody flips it on its head and uses it to argue the exact opposite...

naked ape-rages against the syrian refugee crisis in germany

Mordhaus says...

As psychologist Nicolai Sennels explains, "Mohammed, the prime example for Muslims, married Aisha when she was six and had intercourse with her when she was nine. Besides, according to the Quran (4:24), Muslims are allowed to have sex with female slaves[.]" In addition, "uncovered women are in many Muslim cultures seen as a kind of prostitute, and if a man is aroused by such a female, then – partly due to the corrupted logic of responsibility within Muslim psychology – the female is blamed for being raped (and will therefore often face execution)."

Andrew C. McCarthy, in his book entitled The Grand Jihad, described rape by Muslim immigrants as the "unspoken epidemic of Western Europe." Six years later, it continues to expand and sweep across the continent. Ingrid Carlqvist documents how Sweden is now the rape capital of the West, and when "Michael Hess, a local politician from [the] Sweden Democrat Party, tried to warn his nation that 'it is deeply rooted in Islam's culture to rape and brutalize women who refuse to comply with Islamic teachings' he was charged with 'denigration of ethnic groups'" – a crime in Sweden.

According to Islamic clerics, a woman who fails to wear a headscarf is asking to be raped. Consequently, in the eyes of Muslim men, Western women are seen as "promiscuous, loose, and willing," and since no one in the Islamic community refutes this, they engage in the violence and abuse of power that rape represents. In Australia, Lebanese gangs threaten policemen's wives and girlfriends with rape. In 2006, the mufti of Australia, Sheikh Taj al-Din al Hilali, maintained that "women who do not veil themselves, and allow themselves to be 'uncovered meat,' are at fault if they are raped."

In Rotherham, England, some 1,400 British children as young as 11 were plied with drugs before being passed around and sexually abused by Muslims. As shocking as this was, it is the fifth sex abuse ring led by Muslims

In Nigeria, Boko Haram seized 300 schoolgirls in order to sell them on the open market.

In Pakistan, the police do nothing as Hindu and Christian children as young as 7 years old are gang-raped and sold as prostitutes or slaves to wealthy Muslim families. From 2011 through 2014, approximately 550 Egyptian Coptic Christian girls were abducted and sexually abused by Muslim men.

I could go on and on, but the point is that in Islam, a women is considered to be a subservient and second class person. Men are supreme and women who do not dress appropriately (per Islamic standards) risk things happening to them. This is nothing new, it is part of their culture. Exposing them to women not raised in that culture is going to lead to incidents.

Now, please note that I do not think that we should not accept refugees. But I do think that we should make sure that women are aware of the situation and we should absolutely be enforcing the law in regards to the people breaking it, refugees or not.

ChaosEngine said:

I presume you have evidence to back all that up (ignoring the fact that rape rates are higher in the west to start with)?

Real Time with Bill Maher: Christianity Under Attack?

bobknight33 says...

Without Christianity you loose a standard on morality in which all morality is defined by oneself. Unless you desire to replace it with Hindu or Buddha or Muslim.

Since you are a firm believer of debauchery you would desire to pick none of the above and go with self determined morality.

suggest you read "The Myth Behind "Separation of Church and State""

http://www.lc.org/resources/myth_of_separation_church_state.html


The "wall of separation between church and state" phrase as understood by Jefferson was never meant to exclude people of faith from influencing and shaping government.

GenjiKilpatrick said:

@bobknight33

Explain how your clip is an "Attack on Christianity"

Explain why it's not okay to keep religion out of politics.

Remember that whole thing about Separating Church & State?

newtboy (Member Profile)

oritteropo says...

English is the official language of India, although the current Hindu nationalist party is trying to push Hindi as an alternative, and one of the official languages of Singapore (along with Malay, Mandarin Chinese, and Tamil).

It's not the official language of the others, but is widely spoken.

newtboy said:

Good point, I didn't realize knowing English was considered common in all those countries.

"Stupidity of American Voter," critical to passing Obamacare

shinyblurry says...

Hey Enoch,

No I am getting married soon and I don't think my fiance would appreciate that. As far as posting scripture is concerned, faith comes by hearing and hearing the word of God. You may believe that they are merely words in a book, but the gospel is the power of God unto salvation. I understand where you're coming from Enoch. Sometimes I feel like you are trying to pat me on the head, but it's not that I don't understand your gnostic beliefs. It is that I did understand it, fully embraced them, and rejected it all on the basis of divine revelation. I had gnostic beliefs, mixed with hindu, buddhist and new age ideas, among other things, before I became a Christian. I rejected those beliefs and embraced the word of God as the truth because the Lord directly revealed Himself to me as the Messiah. It wasn't that I read the bible and thought it sounded reasonable, it is because I had direct revelation it is the absolute truth. That's why I am a Christian.

I don't know if you hold the belief that the body is the problem as some gnostics do, but it is sin which is the problem. That is why mankind is separated from God and that is why we need a Savior. Jesus made the way for us to be reborn and be reconciled to God; not as the gnostics teach, that He brought secret knowledge, but that He paid the penalty for sin in our place.

enoch said:

@newtboy @shinyblurry
are you guys going to make out?

Libertarian Atheist vs. Statist Atheist

ChaosEngine says...

I am from the Republic of Ireland if that's what you mean, although I'll happily drink protestant whiskey (or hindu whiskey or buddhist whiskey or even muslim whiskey if such things existed and tasted good).

And when you grow up learning about your nations struggle to free itself of a foreign monarch, you tend to appreciate the ability to self-govern rather than hand it over to a bunch of corporations.

That said... I am not a "dyed-in-the-wool pro-government statist". I have many issues with many governments. Some are better than others. In some ways, I understand the prevalence of libertarianism in the US, given how particularly messed up your own government is.

So not so much "pro-government" as "anti-libertarian"

blankfist said:

Whoa. Whooooa. You're Irish? Like, real Irish, not black-and-tan-and-protestant-whiskey-drinking Northern Irish? And you're a dyed-in-the-wool pro-government statist at the same time?

I feel as if I just learned so much about you, but at the same time, so very little.

But you do live in the disease. And willing so.

Bill Maher destroyed by Glenn Greenwald on US interventionis

Chairman_woo says...

There are also sects of Buddhism that advocate torture, execution and public humiliation (The former Tibetan ruling class springing firmly to mind). Sadly it seems even the most peaceful of philosophies can still be trumped by psychotic self righteousness & mindless tradition .

I'm not aware of any specific Sufi sects having executed or tortured people for blasphemy, adultery etc. but I fear such groups likely exist somewhere if one were to go looking for them.

In general I have a healthy degree of respect for "Sufism" because it follows the same kind of esoteric approach to religion/spirituality/knowledge as it's western (Gnostic) and far eastern (Tao, Hindu*, Buddhist etc.) counterparts.

Very roughly "Esoteric religion" is based around looking inwards for knowledge and lends itself naturally to scientific enquiry, considered ethics, critical thinking etc.
When they speak of a higher power it is almost always in terms of something fundamentally connected to and embodied by yourself.
They almost never suggest one need feel threatened by divine judgement, or that some should be privileged over others (*hence the Hindu caste system being not being truly esoteric)

"Exoteric religion" (most of Islam, Judaism, Christianity etc.) is by contrast based around looking outside oneself for knowledge. Truth is revealed by outside agents, divinity and true power always lie outside of oneself. etc. etc. (I'm sure I don't need to further elucidate the negative qualities of such belief systems )


In truth all of the major denominations appear to have at least some some esoteric and exoteric variations even if most fall mostly into one or the other. There are bad Buddhists & Gnostics and there are good Muslims and Christians the only difference really is whether or not they are genuinely applying their own minds and judgement, or hopelessly enslaved to another's.
Or in "someone" else's terms Logos and Mythos.

Back on topic: Bill Maher is Mythos masquerading as Logos.

bcglorf said:

Do you know what the Sufi positions on blasphemy and converting away from the faith are? I'm guessing it's very likely to be the death sentence position. It's disheartening looking across at Islam and trying to look for the moderates and discovering just how many claim moderate status while promoting the death sentence for blasphemy.

How to Justify Science (Richard Dawkins)

shinyblurry says...

science is self correcting... its not a logical fallacy to say "it works", because producing results is what science is concerned with... and testing hypotheses, which is NEVER ENDING...

If two models agree with observation, neither one can be considered more real than the other. A person can use whichever model is more convenient in the situation under consideration."


All of science assumes there is such a thing as uniformity in nature. If tomorrow the laws of physics stopped working science couldn't self-correct that..it would become useless. The question was, what justifies the scientific method..and pragmatism doesn't justify it. You have to be able to answer why it will continue to work without using a logical fallacy to justify it.

you will run into limits with a faith based system which the scientific method will accelerate by due to use of logic and model-dependent realism.

In the case of Christianity, there aren't any limits. It was because of the Christian assumption that there is a Lawgiver who created an orderly Universe based on laws which helped birth the scientific method in the first place. Now science still operates with the assumption of an orderly Universe based on laws, but it denies the Lawgiver that created them without explaining why they should exist in the first place.

simple, no??? what do i win?? eternal torment in this form by having to exist with ignorant animals who deny their true existence?? Cool... somedays i wish i hadnt bit that apple, but it is done... and i take some comfort knowing that reincarnation is literally true for the physical world, but this planet is getting a little crowded ill never see the end or the start all i am is a middle... when can i sleep eternal...

Are you of the Hindu faith? Why do you believe in reincarnation?

vaire2ube said:

science is self correcting...

BANNED TED Talks Graham Hancock on Consciousness Emergence

shagen454 says...

Obviously, the brain is being tricked into something. What that is, is yes an astounding mystery. See, as I said before there is only one way to test your theory is to invest ten minutes and find out. But, I am sure you would want to pussy foot around with 10mg for a long while until you got to the 40mg, "breakthrough" dose. Which, no one is ever prepared for.

It is not like any other drug. Two seconds in and the person is in a trance. The first time I did it, I really was not expecting what it felt like to go into trance as your mind slips through some sort of portal into the unknown. Seeing pure energy, geometry, with eyes closed. I remember before I did it, I was interested in many aspects of it, seven foot tall black entities were never something I thought about or fantasized about. It is not some fear of mine. I was interested in seeing the afterlife.... and on the way maybe I would see that all the geometric mayan/eastern mandala stuff was bullshit. I wanted to discount the experience as well. But, I could not. And in fact I can see where the influence comes from even if the patterns one sees on this are far more intricate beyond the human imagination. Surely, this is a state the yogi, the buddhist, hindu monks spend their lives trying to get to.

I have given this to close friends. Afterwards, I give it some time and eventually I ask do you think that came from your imagination? And no one believes it does. A lot of what they saw came from absolutely no pop culture references. It came from nothing except knowing very little about it and trusting that I was not going to pop them to the other side of the universe. I still do not know where you are getting your assumptions from? No one knows of anything for sure. We hardly know anything about anything. Repeat that in your head.

I believe in Science first and foremost. But, whatever this is challenges just about all preconceived notions we have of what we actually are to the core. And even if it all proves to be just a trip. It would still challenge the preconceived notions we have of what we actually are.

BicycleRepairMan said:

I have no reason to doubt your sincerety, I'm willing to believe you've had really wierd and powerful experiences on this drug, experiences that might seem more real than the shared experience we refer to as reality. But however powerful and convincing such experiences might be, they are stil trips and hallucinations. they might be so powerful that you cant believe they are, but there is no reason to think otherwise. Our brains are fallible machines that are rather easily tricked, and this can be done by everything from chemicals to religion to a simple optical illusion. And just because it is a "trick" iow our brains being manipulated to experience things that arent happening in reality, doesnt mean it cant have a major effect on peoples life, ie: give people a new perspective on things. But it is not an "astounding mystery" as such, but of course it would be interesting to research the exact interactions that it causes in our brains, and how exactly it works.

One big tell that these trips are trips, is that they almost always include pop-sciency/cultural stuff of the time. In earlier times it involved exotic or mythical animals, in the 50s or 60s or 70s it was aliens and UFOs and stuff like that, and now its quantum physics and speed of light etc. This is a pretty solid sign that we are dealing with references from our own brain, it is in other words not external or new knowledge that's being obtained or discovered in the trip.



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