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What if The Lord of the Rings were created by George RR Mar

cloudballoon says...

If the LotR were created by GRRM, we wouldn't even get to read the part where Gandalf "died" before all of us has left our mortal coils behind...

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After Hours: Why Sauron is Secretly the Good Guy in LOTR

MilkmanDan says...

What I get as the "point" of the One Ring is
A) backup / fallback plan in case Sauron is killed so he won't be completely destroyed (containing some of his soul / essence)
B) a trap to facilitate his control of the other races by tempting and corrupting them

And I think your take on the reason for the invisibility is correct according to the way Tolkien intended it. But it still doesn't sit real well with me. To me it feels better to imagine the whole ring story as a take on "power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely".

The other rings of power are interesting. The three for the elves are largely free of the influence of the one, because Celebrimbor was already very suspicious of Sauron / Annatar when he made them. So the elves can and do continue to use them, though warily.

The seven for dwarves aren't discussed a lot, but hinted that they help corrupt the dwarves natural appreciation for gems and gold into a darker greed for those things. That dovetails into stuff in The Hobbit pretty well. So, while they don't corrupt dwarves in the same way they do men, they DO lead to isolation and and factionalization of the dwarves, which I suppose could have been Sauron's intent.

The nine for humans seem to work quite well as judged by Sauron's intent for them.


I guess that overall, I just feel like temptation and corruption of wearers of the one ring seems like a very elegant way to achieve Sauron's goals when he made it. A ring that grants the wearer the single ability that they most desire but also will be most tempted to abuse would be very difficult for people (and elves or dwarves or whoever) to resist. Gandalf and Galadriel are directly offered the ring but refuse only because they both *know* that they would be corrupted by it. I don't see invisibility as enough of a game-changing ability for either of them to be so confident that they couldn't handle it.

Jinx said:

But the point of the One Ring wasn't to corrupt its wearer, no? I thought that was just a side-effect of it a)containing part of some evil dudes soul b) having a sort of will of its own and wanting to get back to aforementioned evil dude. Equally I thought the reason the ring makes people invisible is a byproduct of it pulling the wearer into whatever bizarro interdimension that the ring-wraiths and sauron semi-inhabit. Hence why Sauron et al can immediately see the wearer despite spending the rest of the time frantically scanning every corner of middle earth as a creepy big eye thing. I thought the idea was that the ring was only truly powerful in the hands of Sauron, given it was sort of a large part of him, and in combination with the other rings of power, the owners of which it was _meant_ to control.

No, my complaint would be that despite investing so much into it, it kinda fails. Turns out the Dwarves are basically incorruptible and the elves immediately sense they have been conned and stop using their 3. Perhaps he should have made more than 9 for the men.

After Hours: Why Sauron is Secretly the Good Guy in LOTR

MilkmanDan says...

Yeah, that's a bit of a stretch... Funny, but a stretch.

The bit about "what does the ring DO?!" in the beginning was interesting to me because that is one thing that I also dislike about Tolkien's works (as a nerdy reader of the Silmarillion like Soren in the video). The three elven rings Narya, Nenya, and Vilya all grant enhanced "elemental" type powers (for example, Gandalf has Narya, which is why he's got the beefy fire magic). Invisibility seems like a pretty poor ultimate power for the *ONE* ring (yes, there are other features, but invisibility is the primary *active* power of the ring).

Personally, I think that it would be cooler if the mighty *one* ring granted the single ability that any individual user would be most tempted to use, and eventually ABuse -- to facilitate its corruption of the wearer. Smeagol/Gollum, Bilbo, and Frodo, being Hobbits, are already predisposed to stealthiness, so granting them invisibility on top of that makes sense and would tempt them to use the invisibility to do more morally ambiguous things and possibly eventually outright evil things. Isildur, being human, could/should have been granted a different power by the ring. Extreme combat prowess or something. Certainly overconfidence in that could just as easily have led to his death via the "betrayal" of the ring.

Seal Jumps On Guy's Boat And Makes A Friend

poolcleaner says...

My reaction would be to make the sea lion my new pet.

I would take him home in my car, fill up my bathtub, dump him in, and then go to Petco and buy him some dog food, a sea lion sized collar and a little dog bone shaped tag: printed on their patented pet tag machine!

I would name him after someone funny with a beard but with an ironic or silly prefix -- like Baby Gandalf or Mr. Bob Ross.

"How is my baby Mr. Bob Ross doing today? Aren't you a cute wittle baby Bobby Ross in your wittle bafftub? Oh yes you are!"

It would be so difficult to sleep because I'd be so excited that I have a sea lion for a pet!

I'd wake up SUPER early to see my new baby sea lion on his first night in my bathtub -- only to find him lying dead on the floor. I'll have inadvertently killed the cute litte sea lion -- and all because I wanted a new pet! And then I'd hang myself.

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dag says...

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

I thought that too, but I think he also has a way of holding his head and changing his facial muscles - he looks like Gandalf and Harrison Ford in the other videos too.

ChaosEngine said:

I'm not sure if it's just that the impression is really good, but I think he actually has a very similar facial structure to Robin Williams too.

It's uncanny.

The One Ring Explained. Lord of the Rings Mythology Part 2

TheFreak says...

When I originally saw the scene, in the theater, where Gandalf confronts the Balrog at the bridge of Khazad-dûm, I believe I saw a tiny flash of bright red light from Gandalf's hand right before he struck the bridge with his staff. I have not been able to identify that detail in any small screen viewing of the film but I'm almost certain I saw it in the theater. I believe that was the power of Narya being summoned.

MilkmanDan said:

Narya is the "ring of fire", and in the timeline of LoTR it is held by Gandalf. Which makes sense, because he does a lot of fire-related stuff with his magic.

The One Ring Explained. Lord of the Rings Mythology Part 2

gorillaman says...

Invisibility isn't a power of the One Ring so much as a side-effect. It shifts mortal wearers a little into the spirit world, so they fade from view in the physical. Sauron doesn't disappear when he wears the ring because he already exists in both worlds and he can see other wearers for the same reason. It's not widely discussed, but this should also be true of other maiar; Gandalf, Saruman and Durin's Bane; and 'high' elves who've been to Valinor: Galadriel and Glorfindel would all also be unaffected by ringvisibility. It's this walking the threshold between worlds that's also responsible for the extended lifespan of mortal ringbearers and why Frodo can see the ringwraiths and they can see him.

The elemental character of the Three, I think, shouldn't be overstated. All of the rings, the One, the Three, the Seven and the Nine are very much alike. They were all made by or under the tutelage of the same creator to the same basic recipe, with independent elven flourishes rather than fundamental differences in the case of the Three. The One has to resonate (musical metaphors are always appropriate for Tolkien's magic) with the others in order to work on them, and that's Sauron's mistake: he is ultimately trapped and destroyed by his ring just as the dwarves and men were by theirs.

MilkmanDan said:

The one thing that I don't like about the One Ring explanation:

It turns you invisible, unless you are the one person for whom it was actually designed (Sauron).

To me, it seems like the rings of power and especially the one ring should grant a more consistent actual power than that...

The One Ring Explained. Lord of the Rings Mythology Part 2

MilkmanDan says...

The one thing that I don't like about the One Ring explanation:

It turns you invisible, unless you are the one person for whom it was actually designed (Sauron).

To me, it seems like the rings of power and especially the one ring should grant a more consistent actual power than that. The three elven rings made by Celebrimbor outside the influence of the one are much better examples.

Narya is the "ring of fire", and in the timeline of LoTR it is held by Gandalf. Which makes sense, because he does a lot of fire-related stuff with his magic. Nenya is the "ring of water" held by Galadriel, and Vilya the "ring of air" held by Elrond. These are used less consistently in the books (or movies), but one movie example is the flood that helped save Frodo and get him to Rivendell. In the movie, the flood is shown as being made of water with horse shapes surging through it, which suggest the magical influence of both Nenya and Vilya (water and air) working together. Anyway, those 3 rings have a consistent and fairly well established list of powers associated with their "elemental" attachments, fire, water, and air.

But the one ring lacks that consistency. It is supposed to help Sauron with his urge to dominate, but it doesn't really explain how that works. It doesn't make him invisible; only others who wear it. Also, it helps him to control or at least influence the wearers of the other rings. That is probably the best, most established power of the one ring, but it is also a bit shaky because wearers other than Sauron don't get those abilities. It seems to make other wearers just more susceptible to corruption, greed, and lust for power.

To me, I think it would be more interesting if the one ring actually granted a more specific power, unique to the psychological state of the wearer. The consistently presented thing about the one ring is that it corrupts, and nothing corrupts more than power. So basically, I think that the one ring should be analyzing whoever wears it, and granting them a unique power that is specifically designed to provide them with their greatest source of temptation to abuse that power.

The invisibility power actually makes a lot of sense for hobbits. As presented in the video here, they generally aren't very ambitious. BUT, hobbits are established as being stealthy beings by default, so granting them invisibility is a good source of temptation to turn that stealthiness into more nefarious purpose. So, I don't mind that the three main hobbit (or hobbit-like) wearers (Gollum/Smeagol, Bilbo, Frodo) all consistently get the invisibility power out of the ring.

Human wearers like Isildur would have less consistent powers granted by the rings, because they have more diverse motivations than hobbits. Just as an example, I'd think that Isildur would be motivated by martial prowess and leadership after watching his father killed by Sauron and the human/elven armies decimated at the end of the second age. So, the ring could perceive that about him and grant him physical power and charisma to lead -- both of which would be very easily turned to corruption. Invisibility just doesn't logically provide the same level of temptation for someone like Isildur.

Finally we come to Sauron himself. He is already an exception to the "ring grants invisibility" concept. But for him, the ring should (and arguably does) represent power and control. Sauron had to put on a false face and play the role of deceiver to get Celebrimbor and the other elves to accept him and create the other rings. Having to stoop to that rather than simply crushing them made him despise that sort of approach; after creating the one ring he cast that aside and became all about sheer power and domination, rather than trickery and deception. So, I see the ring's powers granted to Sauron himself as being sort of a conversion of those cunning/deceptive abilities into might, self preservation, and overwhelming mental dominance that allows him to control his orc armies.


Sorry for the length of that -- I have just always felt that the established powers of the one ring would be a bit more interesting if they led to corruption through real power granted to the wearers, rather than "it makes them invisible, but not Sauron, and in general corrupts them, just because".



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