Thanks I thought I knew a bit about racing lines, but that's a far better explanation than I could have come up with.

Mmmmmmm......
I love man tittie!

That guy with the radio needs to watch his antenna, it was sticking out pretty close to the race line.

God, full throttle all the way through that corner. Almost 4 years and they still don't know the racing line. Good thing traction control comes as standard on this breed.

I would say that if the yellow car was just following the line, he was in the right.

AFAIK, you can close the racing line, but not once the car behind overlaps you. In that case the Aston pulled across the yellow car and caused the accident.

BUT...

if you turn the video down to 1/4 speed, at around 2.5 seconds you can see the yellow car make a fractional turn to the right.

It's wind resistance, it makes a massive difference. When they're really far apart the rear driver is just driving better and shaving time off the lead, so he catches up, but once there it's down to drafting to get the little burst of speed to get alongside. The carts are probably approximately equal in power, so he reaches level from the draft position easily enough, but can't keep the momentum to get a lead with the new air resistance on him, just draw level. So they're level, but obviously there's only one sweet racing line to take to keep your speed up and lap time down. You can either pass on the outside (in which case you have to go faster into the turn to stay ahead) or the inside (in which case you have to turn sharper at speed to stay ahead) both of which are risky, or you can return safely to the racing line - i.e. not by swerving into him, but by conceding the lead to him and dropping in behind him. If you do that, you take less risk and give yourself the chance to try again because you're in draft position again. He needs to stay as close as he can and find the right place to overtake so that his superior driving can give him the lead into the racing line of the next corner, at which point he gets right of way and the position advantage the lead gives. Sometimes that's not even possible and lead to what some would call boring races (Monaco Grand Prix) where the leader is decided on the first corner and doesn't change unless they crash out.

I'll draw two parallels:
1. DRS in F1 racing, where a tiny part of the tail opens up for a small part of the track, which drastically increases speed and allows for more interesting races because it almost ensures overtaking. You can also see the same application of the racing line and people conceding position or trying to take different lines and spinning out or locking up.
2. In cycling, the commonly quoted figure is that you can save 40% of your energy by drafting behind a leading cyclist. The Tour de France and every other cycling road race is defined by drafting, cos no lone cyclist would ever be able to keep pace with the peloton which 'cycles' riders in and out of the wind-protected bunch throughout a day. This should convince you more as cyclists are not streamlined objects but still offer significant gains. Go and watch a cycling sprint finish - it's a case of whoever gets behind the fastest guy wins by conserving energy in his wake until it's time to burst out alongside and pass.

A quote I found in regards to this is:

This is Dean Evans at one of the world's most challenging race tracks at Bathurst in Australia. The conditions are a bit damp, and the other drivers are hesitant to get off the racing line and try the grip there. Dean isn't. He goes for it and the results are impressive.

>> ^Mcboinkens:

>> ^westy:
>> ^Mcboinkens:
<em>>> <a rel="nofollow" href='http://videosift.com/video/Who-is-this-guy-and-what-lab-was-he-built-in#comment-1063403'>^Seric</a>:<br />I wonder how good he would be if he'd spent that time learning real drums <IMG class=smiley src="http://static1.videosift.com/cdm/emoticon/blank.gif"><BR></em>
Yeah, you kind of shot yourself in the foot. He's using a real drum set, not to mention he is using very advanced drumming techniques. He probably learned to played the drums as a kid and then just found this game as a fun way to learn to play new, complex songs.
Furthermore, you should keep up with the new Rock Band coming out. The goal is shifting from just a fun way to chill with friends to actual tutorials on the instruments. The guitar is actually getting 6 strings with fingersensing technology, and it WILL teach those that want to learn to play, with enough effort of course. On the drums, the ride, crash, and high-hat will have different locations charted than the snare and toms, further enhancing gameplay.
Also, Westy, the analogy you made to racing virtually and for real is extremely off. The two focus on completely different things, one is mastering the course and memorizing lines, the other is having a solid team to tune your car, quick thinking out on the course, knowing the course AND dealing with the G's.

You do reolise that G forces are only relivent in F1 and indy car maby some of the other high speed single seaters and evan then you could easily train for that over a year ? other than the phisical strain Gforces actual make driving a car ALLOT ESEAR as you can feal what the car is doing where as in a game you have to go of the stearing collom alone.
you allso reolise that the teams in f1 pritty much compelaty set the car up for the driver ?
You do know that Driving simulators are not just used for learning the layout of the track right? and that in f1 since testing time is so limited drivers themselfs spend a huge amount of time in the simulator testing the teems setups and car modificatoins that the mechanics have done for them ?
Have you ever played a sim racing game ? top sim racers have to do far more tweeking and car set up than a real driver would ever be exspecvted to do , allso sim drivers Drive FAR FAR tighter than a real world driver ever would litraly 100% on the limit to the millimeter.
sim racing is allso far closer and requires more race craft than the vast majorty of other pro forms of racing , due to the fact you can see far less and people are driving closer to the limmit , i dont know if u ever watch f1 but 90% of the grid hardly push the limit interms of race craft.
The largest fundimental factor that stops incredably tallented sim racers compeating in the real world is CASH pure and simple , you have to be a ritch basterd to race and thats without getting anny money back.
Things are slowly changing though , seems that more and more scoller ships are opaning up offering top level sim racers the chance to race in the real world
http://www.ferrari.com/Engli
sh/Formula1/News/Headlines/Pages/100901_F1_Maranello_unveils_new_online_simulator.aspx


I won't waste too much time responding, but you are basically spouting bullshit. NASCAR drivers take 2-3 Gs on turns, and that's about as low as it gets in racing. Your point on teams setting up the cars actually furthers my point. Virtual drivers that set up their own cars are not mechanics, they just get numbers off of the internet and in-game time trials. The true mechanics don't do it that way.
Furthermore, you are incorrect when you assume that driving simulators they use are video games. They cost thousands of dollars and are inside of model cars that can represent true G force feelings.
On to the next point, virtual drivers can get exact drive-lines down because they are not exposed to real racing conditions. Sitting on a couch moving a thumbstick is not the same as turning a steering column in the middle of a track. Less pressure too. Screw up on XBOXLive? Just quit. Screw up in real life and you lose what could be your career, car, or just money in general.
Granted, there may be 1 or 2 sim drivers that could actually compete(and do well ), but like I said, your anology comes nowhere close to Rock Band drums vs. real drumsets. Anyway..


Im sorry but your the one talking out your arse , The point was regardless of how many G you exsperance anything below GP2,and most drivers would be fine with it given a month to get used to it. allso annything below GP2 and the G's make driving easer than sim racing not harder , as it allows you to feel what the car is doing.


Lets focus on road racing as I don't know or care that much about nascar.

to specificity answer your points

1) Red bull use Rfactor pro which is likely to be fairly simular (going by what the people that make Rfactor have said) to normal r factor it just outputs more data and gives the team far better data as to what effect there modifications have made.

Lets bare in mind that all the top sim racers pretty much use Rfactor as there default simulator

Allso there is enough steering collom feed back in Iracing ,Rfactor , Netcar pro to alow a driver to become a significantly better driver by training on it so long as they are using annything above a g25 for input. ITS NOT SIMPLY A CASE OF LEARNING RACING LINES , simulators like Rfactor , Iracing give enoughf feel for you to drive reactively , They allso simulate close racing and sim racers will get to exsperance more racing with other people and as a rsult develop more race craft faster . Remember when all the poker players came from online and totaly dominated real world poker players , this was simply due to the fact that they played thousends more hands than evan vintage poker players , this is what will and has happend with top end sim racers. the onyl difference is you have to be a ritch basterd to get into motor sport in the first place this is why sim racers dont often trasnfer its a totaly riged sport controled by the ritch of the world , but this is slowly chainging.

2) The sole resoin that sim racers drive to the limit is that it dosent cost them annything to crash the car repatedly to find the limit , once they have found it they can pritty much stick to it.

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME WHY THE FUCK WOULD I BE TALKING ABOUT xbox360 ? THERE ARE NO GAMES EVAN CLOSE TO SIMULATOR STANDERD ON THE 360 WHY WOULD YOU EVAN BRING THIS UP WTF?

3) There are a good number of top sim racers that would rape the vast majorty of real world drivers , they are far more or equaly skiled than real world drivers they just have never had the money to drive in real life. If you consider there are probably only what 1000 top level competative road drivers , the top 20 sim racers would be able to compete with 80% of the gird in F1 and they represent the best of the best.

You just made me a MotoGP fan.

In reply to this comment by antonye:
>> ^rottenseed:
Thanks I was wondering what he meant by a blue flag. So there's a flag to let you know you're better off packing your bags?


Yes, the blue flag is shown to warn riders that the race leaders are about to lap them. You're supposed to be nice and get off the racing line so the leaders can pass unhindered and you then rejoin.

This is why it's otherwise known as the "there's a race going on and you ain't in it" flag

As for comments about why they're not hurting themselves, the type of crash (a "low-side" where the bike falls due to loss of grip) means that the energy is spent by the rider sliding along the tarmac. The idea is that the run-off (usually grass and then "kitty litter" gravel) will dissipate this energy so you are taken away from the track and slowed down without hitting a barrier. That's not to say that injuries don't happen; should you be rolling or catch something and start to tumble, you're likely to break bones as your arms/legs go flailing. This whiplash will dislocate limbs if you're lucky and break them if you're not. Wayne Rainey was paralysed from the chest down in one such incident while racing in 1993.

Modern riding kit helps a lot; leather is still very difficult to beat (some use Kangaroo leather, others use Stingray skin!) and with reinforced areas and protectors (usually for knees, elbows, shoulders, back and chest) it means you can walk away from a 200mph slide.

For sheer bone-breaking madness, you really don't want to "high-side" a bike. This is where the rear of the bike will lose traction and start to slide. This has the dual effect of tilting the bike and moving it off axis of the direction of travel, like a handbrake turn in a car. This also compresses the rear suspension, usually a single shock absorber. The problem comes when, due to the rear wheel slowing down through sideways motion, the rear wheel grips again. At this point the bike will now try to rotate around the horizontal axis (from one side to the other) due to the sudden grip stopping the slide. This gives the rear suspension a chance to uncompress, and has the effect of firing the rider out of the seat. Give it enough speed, slide and compression and you've just invented the Motorcycle Ejector Seat.

For some great crashes in MotoGP, the bike equivalent of Formula 1, have a look here (fast forward to 5m10s)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLZEKQHyxMI
And yes, if you watched the #1 crash, Jorge Lorenzo really did break *both* his ankles in qualifying, but went on to race and came 4th!

>> ^rottenseed:
Thanks I was wondering what he meant by a blue flag. So there's a flag to let you know you're better off packing your bags?


Yes, the blue flag is shown to warn riders that the race leaders are about to lap them. You're supposed to be nice and get off the racing line so the leaders can pass unhindered and you then rejoin.

This is why it's otherwise known as the "there's a race going on and you ain't in it" flag

As for comments about why they're not hurting themselves, the type of crash (a "low-side" where the bike falls due to loss of grip) means that the energy is spent by the rider sliding along the tarmac. The idea is that the run-off (usually grass and then "kitty litter" gravel) will dissipate this energy so you are taken away from the track and slowed down without hitting a barrier. That's not to say that injuries don't happen; should you be rolling or catch something and start to tumble, you're likely to break bones as your arms/legs go flailing. This whiplash will dislocate limbs if you're lucky and break them if you're not. Wayne Rainey was paralysed from the chest down in one such incident while racing in 1993.

Modern riding kit helps a lot; leather is still very difficult to beat (some use Kangaroo leather, others use Stingray skin!) and with reinforced areas and protectors (usually for knees, elbows, shoulders, back and chest) it means you can walk away from a 200mph slide.

For sheer bone-breaking madness, you really don't want to "high-side" a bike. This is where the rear of the bike will lose traction and start to slide. This has the dual effect of tilting the bike and moving it off axis of the direction of travel, like a handbrake turn in a car. This also compresses the rear suspension, usually a single shock absorber. The problem comes when, due to the rear wheel slowing down through sideways motion, the rear wheel grips again. At this point the bike will now try to rotate around the horizontal axis (from one side to the other) due to the sudden grip stopping the slide. This gives the rear suspension a chance to uncompress, and has the effect of firing the rider out of the seat. Give it enough speed, slide and compression and you've just invented the Motorcycle Ejector Seat.

For some great crashes in MotoGP, the bike equivalent of Formula 1, have a look here (fast forward to 5m10s)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLZEKQHyxMI
And yes, if you watched the #1 crash, Jorge Lorenzo really did break *both* his ankles in qualifying, but went on to race and came 4th!