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Trump Supporter CHANGES MIND on Biden in 60sec

newtboy says...

Russia invaded Ukraine to expand. They came up with a dozen lame excuses, like protecting Russian speaking people in Crimea from being insulted and to stop the local government (who they called extremists) from taking abandoned Russian military bases, NATO expansion was never a reason they gave for invading.
In Ukraine proper, his stated excuse was that the new Ukrainian government (formed after the Kremlin installed puppet government was ousted) was comprised of NAZIs who were ethnically cleansing Russian speakers in the East, a total fabrication.
https://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/in-putins-words-why-russia-invaded-ukraine/
Try keeping your revisionist Russia centric anti democratic fantasy history to yourself. I know some random internet blowhard failure broadcasting from mommy’s basement told you this alternative fact nonsense, you have got to stop trusting them.

There’s been more NATO expansion in “buffer” nations since Russia invaded than in the 50+ years beforehand, with more coming because they invaded their neighbor…again.

Ukraine will be a NATO country now, so is our business.
Ukraine was in a treaty with the US, so was already our business. We guaranteed their borders against invasion in exchange for their nuclear arsenal. No nation will ever do a nuclear disarmament treaty with America, we don’t keep our word or we would be fighting there.
Russian expansionism isn’t stopped by ignoring it, it’s encouraged. Trump encouraged the expansionism into Ukraine proper (Crimea was Ukraine) when he recognized Russia’s claim on the seized territory, giving the green light to expand their military operations in Eastern Ukraine (that they denied existed but absolutely were there fighting during Trump’s administration and even before, recall Russians shot down a passenger plane in Ukraine in 2014 and never left).

The EU is supportive enough of Ukraine that they just unanimously agreed to $54 billion in military aid, and the EU is our closest trading partner so again, our business. The MAGA ploy to block any aid to Ukraine to aid Russia (hoping it would look bad for Biden) has failed, the EU miraculously stood up as a unified front and agreed to fund Ukraine.
NATO has agreed to admit Ukraine as soon as possible, something never considered before the invasion.


Ukraine is a lost war, lost by Russia…Russia just won’t admit it yet, but their country will be feeling the loss for decades…loss of their army, loss of an entire generation of young men, loss of their economy, loss of hundreds of trade agreements/partners, loss of trillions of dollars, loss of international standing and cooperation, loss of stability. At this point, even if Russia took Ukraine tomorrow, it would be a loss for Russia. They destroyed their prize, and themselves in the process, and the rest of the world is happy to destroy them through a proxy while Russia engages directly and is crushed daily.
Winning!

https://youtu.be/WhILMFdifhk?si=k-egPJ1oDrqKrd_S

Ukraine has already won this war by destroying Russia. It’s exceedingly likely they will also drive the Russians out and may even take some of Russia a s a buffer zone…Russia is losing badly.

bobknight33 said:

The question is Why is Russia invading Ukraine.

The answer is NATO creeping into buffer countries that was agreed on after the fall of Russia.



Finally Ukraine is not a NATO country----------- This is none of our business.




Ukraine is a lost war.

Trump Supporter CHANGES MIND on Biden in 60sec

newtboy says...

As usual, you have it all 100% backwards. Not surprising since you are a Russian propagandist.
Russia secretly invaded Ukraine in 2014 as pure expansionism, when they finally admitted the invasion their excuse was Russians in Crimea were being poorly treated and a fear extremists would take over Russian military bases, having absolutely nothing to do with NATO.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation#:~:text=Russia%20eventually%20admitted%20its%20troops,Russian%20military%
20infrastructure%20by%20extremists%22.

NATO is now “creeping into buffer countries” because Russia started and continues an expansionist policy and threatens its neighbors. Russian expansionism started first. There have been 3 rounds of NATO expansion since Russia started retaking now sovereign lost satellite territories in 2014.
There was never an agreement that NATO wouldn’t accept new members, just as there’s nothing stopping Russia from making allies.
Ukraine was going to be an EU country until Russia’s installed “president” ignored the people and chose Russia over Ukraine and was deposed and expelled so Ukrainians could democratically choose their own leadership which they did. Then Russia invaded.
There was absolutely no chance of them joining NATO until after the invasion, now it’s a near certainty.

Democracy in Europe IS our business. We will be fighting this war at some time, either now while Russia is weak and poor through a proxy or later when we are in a much weaker position fighting them with American soldiers directly…much better to choose now for less money and zero Americans, I know you would prefer to just let Putin re-annex the Balkan states and expand as far as he chooses, returning to socialist communism under his tyrannical leadership, but the free world would prefer to stay free.

And again, it is our business as I clearly explained to you repeatedly because we signed, and actually directed the trilateral disarmament agreement in 92 when we agreed to secure their borders against any incursion and they gave up nuclear weapons the collapsing soviets couldn’t afford to secure themselves. You would make any future agreements, and any current treaties moot and impossible to guarantee because our guarantee is worse than worthless. So shortsighted and not smart. It’s important to keep your word internationally, I know as a MAGgot that doesn’t make sense, just like telling the truth even if it hurts you doesn’t make sense to you…honesty and honor are foreign concepts to your ilk.
It would be nice if you could remember being so wrong so I didn’t have to correct you over and over and over on the exact same topic…but you can’t admit you are wrong so you will forget you were proven wrong, again, and spout the same ignorance, again, forever. So sad and mentally defective….it’s a main feature of MAGA, severe brain damage.

Walk away MAGA policies would hand the world to China, Russia, and N Korea without a word of complaint, then confusion over where our allies are when they come for us.
Ukraine is a war Russia started, one that’s being won by Ukraine with help, and one that has crippled Russia for decades to come WAY cheaper than any American policy could have. Give Joe credit, fine, Joe bankrupted Russia and destroyed their military…I don’t give him that credit, you do.

No, leftists said he would bring us into ruin, and that if he followed trough with his stated intentions he would bring us into war…but he never follows through and caved to China and Russia instead of standing strong for American ideals, interests, and Western democracy. He nearly did start a war by assassinating Iranian government officials and Syrians. I remember when you said ISIS was a nothing burger and not worth paying attention to, right before they took near half of Iraq and Syria, started attacking Americans, and we went to war with them in 2017…who was president then?
We were still at war in Afghanistan when he left office, he had just surrendered unconditionally to the Taliban and Al Qaeda under an agreement they broke repeatedly, but we were still there until Biden (poorly) facilitated the retreat Trump negotiated. Trump/MAGA didn’t avoid or end wars. Nice try at revisionism.

The policy bringing the US near war today is our Israel policy that is the same unthinking blind support for Israel from both parties, same from both presidential candidates. We are in direct military actions endangering American soldiers daily because of THAT conflict, not because of Ukraine. The unbridled ignorance is disappointing even from you. 🤦‍♂️

Ending wars by capitulating like Trump did with Crimea and surrendering unconditionally like Trump did in Afghanistan is not “winning”, it’s losing without even trying and hands the world to dictators.

bobknight33 said:

The kid is asking the wrong question.

The question is Why is Russia invading Ukraine.

The answer is NATO creeping into buffer countries that was agreed on after the fall of Russia.

NATO has not stopped expanding since the fall of the Soviet Union, growing from 17 countries in 1990 to 30 today, several of which were once part of the Soviet-led Warsaw pact.


Finally Ukraine is not a NATO country----------- This is none of our business.


Biden failed Policies have done nothing but keeping pushing for war --

Ukraine is a lost war.

FJB

You leftest said if Trump was POTUS - He would bring us into war--- Never happened.
MEGA 2024 to end wars.

bobknight33 (Member Profile)

newtboy says...

You have no idea what you’re talking about, as usual. Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014. Crimea was part of Ukraine. Biden had nothing to do with it, Trump encouraged them to go farther by recognizing Crimea as Russia to appease his benefactor, Putin…and historically Bush sr made the trilateral agreement essentially guaranteeing to protect Ukraine’s borders with US military power in exchange for nuclear deploliferation in the wake of the fall of the Soviet Union in 92. Should we ignore the international treaty and destroy our reputation, making it impossible to make any international agreements at all? You likely think so as an honorless liar.

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-trilateral-process-the-united-states-ukraine-russia-and-nuclear-weapons/

I know you don’t know the history, but that’s no excuse for making up nonsense.

Putin’s continuing expansionist policy has forced the hand of NATO to admit multiple countries that before the invasions weren’t even being considered, and make plans for admitting Ukraine, not the other way around you fool.
The waste is to throw away a victory for democracy and against a likely return to communist socialism just to hand Biden a loss…as if it were his war.

bobknight33 said:

Why do you stand for Bidens failure?
Biden policies with NATO forced the Russian hand and Biden lost. Worst thousands of lives lost............Such a waste all for not.

Opposing Forcing The Ten Commandments In Public Schools

moonsammy says...

I want to expand on this bit. This right here is from the Treaty of Tripoli, which as newtboy noted was ratified unanimously a mere 10 years after the signing of the Constitution. Treaties are part of the "Supreme Law of the Land" and are not just happy words between diplomats - they've the full weight and support of the US legal system behind them.

So VERY CLEARLY, the early politicians of the US had absolutely ZERO objection to the notion that this is NOT a Christian nation. It is secular, beyond a shadow of a doubt. Any claims to the contrary are absurd revisionist history.

newtboy said:

“As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion..” -John Adams, unanimously ratified by congress in 1797

Ukraine losing 500 troops daily in Bakhmut fight

newtboy says...

Bwaaaahahahaha.
You are the epitome of a laughing stock…you win…here’s your “biggest boob” trophy. 🏆
Oh you dumbshit….The Washington Free Beacon (a right wing publication) and Paul Singer, (a far right mega donor) paid for the Steele dossier about Trump, then later sold it to Clinton. That’s a fact.
Republicans created the Steele dossier, and most, like 90% of it, is confirmed to be correct, none of it was ever proven false (EG- if the dossier said an anonymous source said Russians have pee tape blackmail material against Trump and it is never found, the dossier wasn’t proven to be wrong at all, it just reported the claim). People (like Manafort) went to prison for charges stemming from it.

But you [are] a foolish ignorant man has no idea of any reality because you watch slanted one sided internet propaganda from anywhere as long as it’s anti American. It’s never correct, it never includes legitimate sources, and it’s 100% anti American, anti constitution twaddle and inconsistent lies.

Since you believe anything you see online, watch this unverified report and enjoy… https://youtube.com/shorts/_f1bYWlfApQ?feature=share
And…
https://youtube.com/shorts/lV-pDw6fUTY?feature=share

You said near 3 weeks ago that Bakhmut HAD fallen and was under 100% Russian control, proven by the faked Russian propaganda film of someone raising a Russian flag somewhere and declaring victory, but Bakhmut is still not taken, Russians are losing 1000 troops a day, and Ukraine just got 40000 more troops and billions more worth of current military equipment, Russia is using 70+ year old equipment they’ve never trained with and is dropping bombs on itself.
I’m taking sides, I’m with democracy and stability by treaty.
You are too-siding with Russia, despotism, expansionism, and lies.
Russia is losing ground, losing soldiers, losing equipment, losing borders, losing its long term stalemate with NATO, losing billions from sanctions, and is losing this war. Facts are facts, and you’ve never met a real fact you could agree with.

Russia entered Ukraine because they tossed out the Russia installed “president” (his first “election” was thrown out as a total farce). Yanukovych delayed signing a hugely popular pending association agreement with the EU, choosing to accept a hugely unpopular and bad for Ukraine Russian trade deal, leading to his removal from office and, surprise, cushy retirement in Russia.

NATO had nothing whatsoever to do with Russia breaking the treaty from the 80’s in which they and the United States guaranteed Ukraine’s sovereignty and border security in perpetuity if they gave up their nukes. That included Crimea, which Russia invaded too over nonsense lies.
They declared Crimea under terrorist attack (it wasn’t) and invaded “to protect the citizens”. They did the same in Ukraine, recognizing the terrorist separatists as the legitimate (unelected) government and declaring the real government were terrorists attacking peaceful Russians in Eastern Ukraine. (The same peaceful Russians that shot down a commercial airline full of innocent people completely uninvolved in their conflict).

Putin said the purpose of the operation was to "protect the people" in the predominantly Russian-speaking region of Donbas who he falsely claimed that "for eight years now, [had] been facing humiliation and genocide perpetrated by the Kyiv regime". Putin said that Russia sought the "demilitarisation and denazification" of Ukraine, and insisted Russia wouldn’t occupy any of Ukraine….all pure lies. He now says he intends to remove Ukraine from the map and Ukrainians from the gene pool.

It had absolutely nothing to do with NATO….NATO wasn’t considering giving Ukraine, Sweden, or Finland membership before the land grab invasions. You lackwit. If anything it was fear that Ukraine might join the EU….but really it was the loss of their installed Russian president that was beholding to the Kremlin, not any of the lame excuses they’ve made since.

You just love to rewrite history and always expect everyone else to be as ignorant of reality as yourself. Sadly for you, some people have memories longer than a methed out gnat and know why things happened, not just what the perpetrators of crimes say today that contradicts everything they said yesterday and before.
There’s no agreement to not expand NATO. Who told you that, Putin?

But has the actual history, or the nuclear treaty, or the ousting of the Russian planted president by the populace and installation of their chosen president (exactly what you hoped for with Trump on Jan 6 except instead of 2000 people it was the entire country performing a coup) been given on your fake propaganda websites? If so, you missed it all.

bobknight33 said:

You win NOT.
The only Russian nonsense is Hill Clinton and the DNC which paid for the Steele Dossier and proven 100% BS .

But you, a foolish man has no idea of this reality because you watch slanted one sided "news"

Bakhmut has almost fallen -- and Russia is gaining ground. I'm not taking sides but facts are facts.




The question is WHY Russia entered Ukraine. Im sure that NATO breaking their agreement with Russia over last 40 years and entering into non NATO countries has a something to do with it.

But has that question been asked on your fake news outlet?

The Army Needs To Explain

cloudballoon says...

Just curious (as an uninformed Canadian), what war the US Army (not the Navy, not the USAF, the Army) can really claimed it won in a century? Just leave after wrecking a country into ruins is not winning by definition (Vietnam, Afghanistan, etc.), looking for a clear "Mission Accomplished"?

Like, I'd call the USAF dropping of the H Bomb won WWII, it got Japan to surrender, treaty signed, etc. That's Mission Accomplished to me.

How Trump Is Playing Kamala Harris Like A Video Game

newtboy says...

Since birth. Trump feels threatened constantly, every single day, by every person he meets. It’s obvious. (Insecurity is linked to mental health conditions such as narcissism, anxiety, paranoia, and addictive or dependent personalities….sound familiar?)

His personality is one of pure insecurity.

Seriously, when has Trump NOT felt threatened by anyone?

That’s why he demands total compliance, fawning, adulation, and 100% public agreement or you’re his next target.….he can’t stand it if anyone disagrees with him about anything, or doesn’t give him preferential treatment, or isn’t puckered enough to kiss his unwiped ass.

The fact that he expects everyone else to compromise for him, but can’t fathom the reverse also indicates clinical insecurity.

That’s why he insisted people only get to know what he claims about himself….no tax disclosures, no financial disclosures, no putting his holdings into a blind trust, no registering as an agent for multiple hostile foreign powers (like Russia, N Korea, Saudi Arabia, and China, all of which helped “fund his presidency” (by which I mean bribed his family to the tune of multiple billions in return for classified information, preferential treatment, and ignoring treaties (like our obligation by treaty to give a strong, even nuclear military response to aggressive expansion in Ukraine.))). He’s terrified people will hate him if they know him.

That’s how people who feel constantly threatened act, not strong, secure people, but weak insecure people act that way, buddy. That you guy. That you pick. A cowardly baby conman who is anti constitution, anti democracy, and anti American….just like his cultists.
Your cowardly silence since the election is just more evidence. Where’s your red tsunami I was pissing into? Where’s the bravado and certitude? Where’s the unearned vitriol and threats? All evaporated in a puff of reality.

bobknight33 said:

Seriously when has Trump felt threatened by anyone?

Flag of Ukraine - Historical Evolution

newtboy says...

Constant unAmerican, anti democratic, Russian propaganda.
Do you know how many flags have flown over the US in that time? To name just a few….French, British, Spanish, Mexican, Every state (before their statehood), dozens of different US flags (changed every time a state was added), hundreds of indigenous nations, even Canada. Remember 6 flags over Texas? Does that make Texas less part of America? I guess Mexico should take it back. No need to defend it I suppose.
What idiocy. Jesus, bob.

I recall how happy you were when we assassinated an Iranian general in an unprovoked act of war against a Russian backed country, so why was starting a war fine with you but keeping our clear obligations agreed on by an international nuclear disarmament treaty is bad? *crickets*

I’m not saying you are definitely a Russian America hating troll, I’m just saying there wouldn’t be a single letter changed in anything you post if you are, and there’s not one shred of evidence that you aren’t one.

Love the way you want to walk away from our treaty too….so no country will ever negotiate based on a promise by America to defend them. Ukraine would still have nukes if we hadn’t agreed to permanently secure their borders, and Putin would never have invaded a nuclear nation.

At every opportunity you are anti democracy, Bob. You’re so blind you don’t see how that makes you look. I thought you hated socialism and communism….so why do you support it being forced on others?

🤦‍♂️

Edit: have you been listening to super racist failed diplomatic appointee and Fox “invasion expert” Douglas MacGregor, a Trump appointed Russia Propagandist on Fox who’s suggesting Russia should be more aggressive, borders should just be redrawn (without Ukraine), Zelinski is a terrorist, and claims people in the west and Europe and China all support Russian expansion? Sure sounds like it.

bobknight33 said:

Constant turmoil land grab.
As shitty as Putin is invading Ukraine, we should not get too involved.

Meeting invaders with some friendly advice.

vil says...

I wonder actually...
He is such a narcissist maybe it does hurt.
Mostly I just forgot to press the sarcasm button.

What does he care about? Because his legacy project for Mother Russia looks like it is backfiring. His own legacy is also about to go down the drain. It will be difficult for his western friends to remain his friends, just like that pedophile whatshisname that was friends with everyone but no one will admit it now.

Putin broke his own treaty, his word, sent his soldiers into a sovereign country where everyone speaks russian. Some of those soldiers dont know where they are and what they are doing there, have no gas and no food after 4 days. He is lying to his own people and censoring information. Some legacy.

Unfortunately no one in the USofA gives much of a shit, but maybe Europe can get its act together based on this shitstorm.

cloudballoon said:

Like Putin's gonna care..

Biden press conference

newtboy says...

No, that was Trump’s policy. Officially recognize their military takeover of Crimea, and do nothing about Ukraine.

Biden isn’t doing what I think is right, installing American troops on the border and offering the full backing of the American military against invasion like we agreed to by nuclear disarmament treaty, but he’s threatening crushing sanctions with UN nation backing, an improvement over “whatever you want, honey.” that was Trump’s Russia policy.

Stop with the cut and paste laziness….or at least fix your multiple stupid fucking grammar mistakes and infantile chant. Sweet zombie Jesus, you’re insufferable.

bobknight33 said:

@newtboy

Sleepy Joe Russian policy ??? Let them invade Ukraine???
Is sleepy Joe in Putin's pocket????


This is you boy? This is you pick.

Lets Go Brandon.. RNC #1 salesmen of the year

bobknight33 (Member Profile)

newtboy says...

Math is the main requirement for engineering. If you can’t do basic math, it’s incredibly unlikely you could earn a degree in any kind of engineering. If your wife couldn’t write a sentence I would also doubt any journalist credentials she claimed, if she couldn’t do basic arithmetic I would doubt any degree she claimed. There are basic minimum requirements to graduate that you don’t seem to meet. So much for your stupid rebuttal.

Clearly it’s not…but what is? Not math. Not critical thinking. Not history.

As I’ve said repeatedly, clearly, and directly, no. I don’t think he’s achieving as much as even I hoped for in my unbounded cynicism, and I never had high hopes from him, he’s not my choice….but I understand exactly why he’s not getting much done and don’t hold him 100% accountable for much of it. Without a functional congress, his hands are tied on many fronts.
Foreign policy, that’s on him. I wish we had soldiers in the Ukraine so Russia would be forced to attack America if they want to attack the Ukraine….like we said we would when they gave up their nukes by treaty.

I invite you to explain how I’m wrong at any time, but without facts and reliable sources to cite you’ll likely fail like so often before.

? Grand master? I pointed out a basic fact, GDP under Obama was double GDP under Trump. What delusional fantasy are you railing against now?

Didn’t watch. Guaranteed it was more informative and less self aggrandizing than any Trump “press conference” ever, with fewer exaggerations and outright falsehoods.

Incomprehensible. Take a deep breath and try again. Use your words.

Massive debt, unequalled corruption, isolationism, nationalism, and division certainly don’t make America better, and that’s the Trump legacy. Investment in America makes it better, Biden’s already done that and wants to do more.

bobknight33 said:

My wife has a journalism degree but can't do any meaningful math.

So much your stupid argument.

Everyone is different, grammar is not my strong suit.

You know so much that just ain't so. You in a bubble. Are you 1 of the 30% that think Biden is doing a great job?

You sit here thinking up on you high horse but you are so often wrong is it laughable


Trying to put the failed OBAMA on some grand master of a POTUS truly shows how much shit for brains you have.

Truly I bet you think Bidens 2 hour press conference today was pretty fucking all right.


80% failure where you most likely 80% success. This is how shit you are.


You, like Obama, Biden Clinton are good at speaking BS. Just keep giving your failed ideas of what makes America better.

Philip Law Raising the Australian Flag at Oates Land Antarct

12K Illegal Immigrants Live Under Bridge In Del Rio, Taxes

newtboy says...

And if they’re here under what was legally called refugee status until the rules, but not the law or the treaties that required creation of certain laws, changed, as most are?

If you go 1 mile over the speed limit, or pass on the right, forevermore you call yourself an illegal driver?

If your school breaks some laws, it’s forever an illegal enterprise?

If your charity breaks a few, or all the rules for being a charity, you are branded for life as one who ran a fraudulent criminal illegal organization?!

LMFAHS!!!

It would be nice to see some consistency in how you would apply rules, and how you would handle rule breakers. I see no chance of that, but it would be nice.

bobknight33 said:

If they are here Illegally then they ARE Illegal Immigrants.

If they are afraid of their home they can stop in many other places even Mexico.

Also anyone who can walk a thousand miles or so don't need to be in America to make a life for themself.


https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1225#b

8 U.S. Code § 1225
reworked under Obama .. His administration mandated all Illegal aliens no to be referred as aliens.

Besides this is CNN call them illegal. Fake news getting it right once in a while.

Land of Mine Trailer

newtboy says...

Big assumption. Many Hitler youth made the choice to fight for Germany, and joined on their own before children were being drafted.

As for those that were conscripted, is it your position that draftees are somehow immune from responsibility for murdering their neighbors, women, children, rapes, burning towns, or planting millions of landmines on foreign soil, etc? How convenient for them. I don't believe that's a popular or legal position.

I take responsibility for my actions. If their fate was mine, I would be eternally grateful I was treated so much better than I would have treated them if the tables were turned. I would be part of an invading Nazi army, trying to undo just a tiny bit of the damage we had caused, doing so at the direction of my superiors just like when I caused the situation. I would deserve execution, not release. This assumes I wouldn't have the spine to refuse to be a Nazi and be imprisoned or executed.

If the majority of Germans weren't complicit, the Nazis would have never come to power. You give them far too much credit. From the holocaust encyclopedia- "Opposition to the Nazi regime also arose among a very small number of German youth, some of whom resented mandatory membership in the Hitler Youth." Same with adults, the opposition was a minority by far, not the majority of Germans. Who told you that?

"Survived the fighting"? "Here"? "They"? Please finish your thoughts so they have meaning. You seem to be equating Nazi soldiers with the Jews they tried to eradicate. What?!?

The Geneva convention we know today was ratified in 1949. The accords of 1929 were found to be totally insufficient to protect POWs, civilians, infrastructure, etc. Yes, Germany did appear violate it's vague provisions....so did the allies. That's why it was strengthened in 49.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Conventions

What provision of the 1929 version do you claim this violates?

Articles 20, 21, 22, and 23 states that officers and persons of equivalent status who are prisoners of war shall be treated with the regard due their rank and age and provide more details on what that treatment should be.
Or
Articles 27 to 34 covers labour by prisoners of war. Work must fit the rank and health of the prisoners. The work must not be war-related and must be safe work. ("Safe" and "war related" being intentionally vague and unenforceable).
Please explain the specific violation that makes mine removal a "war crime". It's not war related, the war was over, and it's "safe" if done properly.
Since this was done at the direction of German officers, the convention as written then doesn't apply.

Death camp!!! LOL. Now I know you aren't serious.
"The removal was part of a controversial agreement between the German Commander General Georg Lindemann, the Danish Government and the British Armed Forces, under which German soldiers with experience in defusing mines would be in charge of clearing the mine fields.
This makes it a case of German soldiers under German officers and NCOs clearing mines under the agreement of the German commander in Denmark who remained at his post for a month after the surrender - this means Germany accepted that they had responsibility to remove the mines - they just had far too few experienced mine clearance experts and far too many “drafted” mine clearers with no real experience in doing so." So, if it's a war crime, it's one the Germans committed against themselves.

I'm happy to say that anything done to a Nazi soldier is ethical, age notwithstanding. Many Nazi youth were more zealous and violent than their adult counterparts. Removing their DNA from the gene pool would have been ethical, but illegal. Taking their country to create Israel would have been ethical, but didn't happen.

At the time, there were few mechanical means of mine removal, they didn't work on wet ground, they required a tank and that the area be pre-cleared of anti tank mines, they often get stuck on beaches, and had just over a 50% clearance rate, cost $300-$1000 per mine removed, and they were in extremely short supply after the war. The Germans volunteered in this instance. Now, the Mine Ban Treaty gives each state the primary responsibility to clear its own mines, just like this agreement did.

So you know, the film is fiction, not history. Maybe read up on the real history before attacking countries over a fictional story. History isn't nearly as cut and dry as it's presented, neither are war crimes.

psycop said:

These boys neither chose the age of conscription nor to go to war. Given their age and the time in the war, they would have been forcably made to fight. If you had the misfortune to be born then and there, thier fate could be yours.

Being in the German army did not imply being a Nazi, the majority of the German population were victims as well, pointlessly lead to slaughter by monsters.

Those of them that would have survived the fighting ended up here. They didn't feed them. They worked until they died. They expected them to die. They wanted them to die.

The Geneva Conventions were signed in 1929 making this an official war crime if that's important to you. I'd say the law does not define ethics, and I'd be happy to say this is wrong regardless of the treaty.

As for alternatives for mine clearance. I'm not a military expert, but I believe there are techniques, equipment, tools or vehicles that can be used to reduce the risk to operators. Frankly it's besides the point. Just because someone cannot think of a solution they prefer over running a death camp, does not mean they are not free to do so.

If you have the time, I'd recommend watching the film. It's excellent. And as with most things, particularly in times of war, it's complicated.

Land of Mine Trailer

psycop says...

These boys neither chose the age of conscription nor to go to war. Given their age and the time in the war, they would have been forcably made to fight. If you had the misfortune to be born then and there, thier fate could be yours.

Being in the German army did not imply being a Nazi, the majority of the German population were victims as well, pointlessly lead to slaughter by monsters.

Those of them that would have survived the fighting ended up here. They didn't feed them. They worked until they died. They expected them to die. They wanted them to die.

The Geneva Conventions were signed in 1929 making this an official war crime if that's important to you. I'd say the law does not define ethics, and I'd be happy to say this is wrong regardless of the treaty.

As for alternatives for mine clearance. I'm not a military expert, but I believe there are techniques, equipment, tools or vehicles that can be used to reduce the risk to operators. Frankly it's besides the point. Just because someone cannot think of a solution they prefer over running a death camp, does not mean they are not free to do so.

If you have the time, I'd recommend watching the film. It's excellent. And as with most things, particularly in times of war, it's complicated.

newtboy said:

If you're old enough to go to war, you're old enough to clean up your mess.
Truer words were never said.
These kids should be eternally grateful they weren't treated the same way Germany treated POWs.



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