>> ^Ryjkyj:

>> ^bcglorf:
Can someone explain the Greek riots to me? I've only followed far enough to have picked up that they are in opposition to the austerity measures being enacted by government? What I've heard sounds like the government spent so much on social services that it went bankrupt, and the protesters are angry that the government is now attempting to cut back it's social services.
I'm not of strong opinion on this like I am in many other situations, but the balance of what I've heard sounds like the anti-austerity protests are so much whining that everyone wants their free money and maybe if we shoot the messenger the economy will recover.

There's no such thing as spending too much money on social services. It's a myth. That's what a society is, it's a system of social service.
Isn't it?


Basic economics still applies. As an individual, I can't spend more on myself than I can earn without the debt catching up on me. The same applies to society, if you are collectively spending more than you are collectively making, that is spending too much. Free health care, government funded post secondary education, full pensions starting at 45, and unemployment assistance of $50k annually for anyone that can't find a job they like is more than any country in the world today can really afford(save maybe a few exceptions of middle eastern nations with massive oil reserves and minimal populations).
Were did Greece's spending fall?

>> ^bcglorf:

Can someone explain the Greek riots to me? I've only followed far enough to have picked up that they are in opposition to the austerity measures being enacted by government? What I've heard sounds like the government spent so much on social services that it went bankrupt, and the protesters are angry that the government is now attempting to cut back it's social services.
I'm not of strong opinion on this like I am in many other situations, but the balance of what I've heard sounds like the anti-austerity protests are so much whining that everyone wants their free money and maybe if we shoot the messenger the economy will recover.


There's no such thing as spending too much money on social services. It's a myth. That's what a society is, it's a system of social service.

Isn't it?

Know what occupy wall street is about?



ok. About the same thing. Loss of true democracy, giving the rich a free ride on the taxpayers back, blah blah blah. But you knew that. Not really that hard to figure out dude. google.com. Try it. It works. None of it is really that hard to figure out either....unless you have an agenda.

"no strong opinion", but they are "whiners". Ok dude. fuck off.
>> ^bcglorf:

Can someone explain the Greek riots to me? I've only followed far enough to have picked up that they are in opposition to the austerity measures being enacted by government? What I've heard sounds like the government spent so much on social services that it went bankrupt, and the protesters are angry that the government is now attempting to cut back it's social services.
I'm not of strong opinion on this like I am in many other situations, but the balance of what I've heard sounds like the anti-austerity protests are so much whining that everyone wants their free money and maybe if we shoot the messenger the economy will recover.

>> ^bcglorf:

Can someone explain the Greek riots to me? I've only followed far enough to have picked up that they are in opposition to the austerity measures being enacted by government? What I've heard sounds like the government spent so much on social services that it went bankrupt, and the protesters are angry that the government is now attempting to cut back it's social services.
I'm not of strong opinion on this like I am in many other situations, but the balance of what I've heard sounds like the anti-austerity protests are so much whining that everyone wants their free money and maybe if we shoot the messenger the economy will recover.


The brunt of it is that Greece is in trouble, and the majority of people who will have to pay for it, or endure "austerity" as the fatcats like to say, had nothing, zero, to do with the trouble.

I've been trying to find out what went wrong there, but I see a lot of smoke and few specifics.

Naturally, any time the blame can be laid on social programs, then that narrative will be most promoted among America's mainstream media.

Frankly I think it was a combination of things, and some of it may have been related to the same CDO swindle that bankrupted Iceland.

But I'm sure you'll agree that if Greece went nuclear, all of their problems would be solved...just like Japan's....



EDIT:

Two words: Goldman Sachs.

Goldman was criticized for its involvement in the 2010 European sovereign debt crisis. Goldman Sachs is reported to have systematically helped the Greek government mask the true facts concerning its national debt between the years 1998 and 2009.[76] In September 2009, Goldman Sachs, among others, created a special credit default swap (CDS) index to cover of high risk of Greece's national debt.[77] The interest-rates of Greek national bonds have soared to a very high level, leading the Greek economy very close to bankruptcy in March and May 2010 and again in June 2011.

(Wikipedia)

Can someone explain the Greek riots to me? I've only followed far enough to have picked up that they are in opposition to the austerity measures being enacted by government? What I've heard sounds like the government spent so much on social services that it went bankrupt, and the protesters are angry that the government is now attempting to cut back it's social services.

I'm not of strong opinion on this like I am in many other situations, but the balance of what I've heard sounds like the anti-austerity protests are so much whining that everyone wants their free money and maybe if we shoot the messenger the economy will recover.

@ponceleon

Yeah the problem with that is the budget for education keeps getting cut more and more every year.

Take my state for example. Our governor, in all of his wisdom, decided to cut another $300 MILLION dollars from k-12 spending. You know, b/c so many teachers and administrators are driving around Porches.

The reality is that most teachers spend a good hunk of their own money buying supplies. When's the last time the military had to have a bake sale to buy a tank? And speaking of which, did you hear about the equipment they're leaving behind in Iraq?

And you're probably saying "Well times are tough, everyone needs cuts, etc." But at the end of the fiscal year of 2010, after some time to look at the books, Indiana ended up with a $1.2 billion dollar surplus. "OH AWESOME I DON'T HAVE TO BUY MY OWN MARKERS ANYMORE!" -Random Teacher.

Hold on there Random Teacher who thinks he's going to have to stop buying his own supplies. That money did NOT get returned to the social services from which it was cut. Instead, 24,000 state workers got a bonus check with that money to, you know, buy more Xboxes and McDonalds and such.

It's a sad fucking state of affairs and people are not going to start valuing education until we stop idiotic policies like this.

@blankfist

First off, I agree with the principles of everything you've said here. What I'm driving at is that right now, Americans have the choice of cutting social services, or raising taxes, or both. There simply isn't an option to cut war funding or any of that other stuff. Or, if the discussion you want to start is about cutting funding for programs you don't want to support anymore, then relating it to taxation confuses your point (since cutting war isn't immediately possible, but cutting social programs and raising taxes are). It was only in the third paragraph of your first comment that you even mentioned military, so it looked like an afterthought, rather than the main thing you were getting at.

Back to the first question you posed though, about why taxing income is OK. It's because it pays for stuff the elected government has theoretically decided benefits the nation as a whole. If that taxation is to be distributed, the fairest method is to take tax from people based on how much they benefit financially from living in America.

Curious: how else does the federal government make money besides taxes?

It is more akin to the idea of WHICH good thing you wish to practice, or the thing being done that is said to be good not being good in your own moral judgement. One might say feeding the poor isn't done properly unless accompanied by a health dose of soul food. I am no one to tell them they are wrong. The hard part of doing good with other peoples money is we don't have the same idea of what good is, so any attempt is muddled in personal bias and dogma. Which is why I support more community based charity than national.

>> ^NetRunner:

>> ^GeeSussFreeK:
>> ^Mikus_Aurelius:
Actually I'm pretty sure that's exactly what Jesus had in mind when he tells us to give up our earthly possessions and follow God, trusting in him to take care of us.
>> ^GeeSussFreeK:
Is it Christian to let other people do good deeds for you instead of doing them yourself? Social services undercut many peoples ability to practice their own moral choices.


Trusting government is trusting God? That is a stretch I don't think that is what you meant, but it is what you seem to of said.

I'm no theologian, but nobody's ever cited to me the part of the Bible where Jesus makes a distinction between people helping others through an institution (like churches, non-profits, or government), or on their own as an individual.

>> ^GeeSussFreeK:

>> ^Mikus_Aurelius:
Actually I'm pretty sure that's exactly what Jesus had in mind when he tells us to give up our earthly possessions and follow God, trusting in him to take care of us.
>> ^GeeSussFreeK:
Is it Christian to let other people do good deeds for you instead of doing them yourself? Social services undercut many peoples ability to practice their own moral choices.


Trusting government is trusting God? That is a stretch I don't think that is what you meant, but it is what you seem to of said.


I'm no theologian, but nobody's ever cited to me the part of the Bible where Jesus makes a distinction between people helping others through an institution (like churches, non-profits, or government), or on their own as an individual.

>> ^Mikus_Aurelius:

Actually I'm pretty sure that's exactly what Jesus had in mind when he tells us to give up our earthly possessions and follow God, trusting in him to take care of us.
>> ^GeeSussFreeK:
Is it Christian to let other people do good deeds for you instead of doing them yourself? Social services undercut many peoples ability to practice their own moral choices.



Trusting government is trusting God? That is a stretch I don't think that is what you meant, but it is what you seem to of said.

Actually I'm pretty sure that's exactly what Jesus had in mind when he tells us to give up our earthly possessions and follow God, trusting in him to take care of us.

>> ^GeeSussFreeK:

Is it Christian to let other people do good deeds for you instead of doing them yourself? Social services undercut many peoples ability to practice their own moral choices.

Is it Christian to let other people do good deeds for you instead of doing them yourself? Social services undercut many peoples ability to practice their own moral choices.

The fact that this debate has reached this point shows how badly off the US is. How hard is it to understand that a society's well-being is a function of the well-being of each of its members? As @HugeJerk rightly suggests, if you want an example of small government, look at Somalia (and much of central Africa). Talk about a land of the free, everyone fending for themselves, no intrusive regulations, and only money talks, yay! Meanwhile, people in Northern Europe are happy, healthy and well-educated... but they pay high taxes,the horror!!

Badly organised government and social services are not justification enough for little to no government and social services.

>> ^Gallowflak:

Normally the WTF leaves me with a tinge of elation, like you get after laughing at a good joke. This just made me feel kind of... dead inside.


yeah, i can't help but think the trauma shake that the kid is doing, and the way the girls (sisters?) treat him are related

i'd be passing this on to social services if I knew who/where these people were

Article 1.
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- http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/