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vil (Member Profile)

newtboy (Member Profile)

Police fire (paintball?) at residents on their front porch

HugeJerk says...

Police... trying to recover from yet another nightmare situation of their own creation, see fit to run people over, pepper spray the peaceful marchers, slash tires and windows, pull people from their cars as they're driving home, shoot at journalists and others not involved in any violence or destruction while laughing about it.

I'm sure that'll restore the trust of the public in law enforcement.

Black Range Rover Runs Over Bikers in NYC

newtboy says...

Perhaps I do speculate a bit as to why the biker caused the 'accident', but it seems to me that you continue to speculate that the driver MUST have done SOMETHING to cause the bikers to completely loose their shit and attack the family with helmets and knives. I fail to see how you get that impression without starting from the standpoint that the bikers MUST be 'reasonable' people that would not have attacked without 'proper' provocation. I think their behavior proves clearly they are not reasonable. More than likely, there were some 1%ers in that group that live for that kind of trouble, including the one that started it.
At least according to the police, his tires were slashed and his car hit with multiple helmets, provoking him to drive over the bikes/biker. He was later nearly ripped out of the car (door locks people) and finally at a third location actually pulled out and beaten/stabbed.
Perhaps I misunderstood, but you SEEMED to be excusing the bikers behavior, at least to a point, by saying (in essence) 'The driver provoked them'. I disagreed that he did, (I certainly didn't see it in the video) and also disagree that anything excuses a gang blocking the freeway and teaching a lesson to those that disrespected their road ownership by slashing tires, beating the car with helmets, terrorizing a family with a small child.
My hunch is that this guy didn't follow the gangs directions to stop and kept driving where they wanted to do tricks in the freeway, and they decided to teach him a lesson for messing with their illegal street trick performance...which this group is apparently well known for. They did the same thing last year to at least one other car without the chase or bike climbing, from the videos I've seen today. Surrounded it in traffic and beat on it.
As an aside...the guy was in a great position to talk shit, in a 3 ton 4WD on the freeway...it's when he turned onto side streets with traffic and didn't lock the door that he was in the real bad position! ;-}
I say things like "fag gangs with knives" because that's what they were. Fags and the bike curious. I understand the mindset of gang members, I simply think that most are narcissistic self centered assholes that need their friends around to be tough (for the most part... some are real tough narcissistic assholes). If you're wearing a full patch or ride in groups with others wearing patches, you're in a gang, not a club...at least to me.
And before you get the wrong impression that I don't get the dangers bikers live with, I rode my bicycle 40 miles per day in the bay area for years, and NO ONE sees a bicycle, at least they hear motorcycles. I don't support the people who block the street with bicycles either.

Chairman_woo said:

That's a rather speculative argument your making. We don't know exactly what was and wasn't said between the bikers and the driver. The bikers alleged this dude was giving quite a bit of back and forth and we don't know exactly what threat is made to provoke him driving over the bikes and escalating the whole thing. I never said that this was caused by lane splitting I was using it as an example from my own experience to make a point about some car drivers attitude and behaviour towards us.

The impression I get (and this is just a hunch like anyone else's including YOURS) is that this dude was talking shit and the bikers initially stopped him to make it clear he was in no position to be making threats (which lets face it would have been a foolish move for anyone). It's entirely possible that this whole thing could have been diffused at that point (and maybe not we don't get to see or hear the altercation).
Maybe this dude was just scared and calling the police, maybe he was directly antagonizing them as he did so as the bikers claim.

At no point have I done anything but condemn the bikers actions, I was merely trying to elucidate a different perspective and find a more informative angle than just "these bikers be dicks". They are people too (albeit ones of dubious moral character)


Are you familiar with the concept of holding two irreconcilable truths simultaneously to gain a deeper insight?

That's what I was doing here, I'm sorry I failed to make that more clear to you (language alone can be a clumsy way to communicate)

There's a veritable mountain of historic, behavioural and situational factors at work here, one of them is the basic resentment and animosity you subconsciously accumulate against a certain kind of car driver by simply being a biker. Other include mob dynamics, lifelong neuroses and inhibition control etc. etc.

When we say things like "fag gangs with knives" and make no attempt to understand their behaviour we get nowhere. In fact its worse than that, we go backwards as the simplistic black and white level untermensch/ubermensch relationship serves simply to fuel the same kind of situation in the future. That distinction exists but only works if derived dialectically rather than dualistically. (to paraphrase you need to be a bigger less emotionally compromised man/woman than these people or it will continue to happen. It's not a matter of who's right and wrong so much as "what failed and why?".)

I keep trying to not disagree with you because to a large extent I don't, I just don't believe in fixed perspectives. Your not wrong, but it does not invalidate the majority of what I'm trying to say/do. This is how higher synthesees or argument and understanding are derived. Someone had to chime in for the other side otherwise no-ones ideas have a chance to expand, on this occasion the duty fell to me and Chingy (not for the 1st time).

Dialectic logic > Aristotelian Logic

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