Edit: I misunderstood …. When you flee to somewhere you aren’t welcome, you invaded. That’s not characterization, it’s definition. If my home isn’t safe so I force my way into yours, I invaded your home…even if my friend down the street said it was ok.
It’s not a legitimate motive to invade a foreign country and murder, subjugate, and ghettoize its inhabitants because you aren’t safe where you live. There is no legitimate motive for those actions.

I think you take great liberty deciding the “Arab narrative”. That may be the Hamas narrative, it’s not the Palestinian’s history, and I think few claim it is. At first they were and acted like refugees, welcomed by Arab natives, some of which were Jews themselves, then shortly after began exponentially increasing immigration to overpower the natives, coming armed. They had no right to take by force food, shelter, and safety from those who had offered it to a much smaller portion of needy Jews…they in fact had an obligation to do the exact opposite and minimize their impact on their TEMPORARY HOSTS, and ensure their benefactors didn’t suffer for their generosity. This was not even a fleeting thought for the invaders.

The violent Zionists were intentionally courted and invited then supported and encouraged by those you say were “getting along”, so your point is misguided.

That native population was displaced by a concerted effort to forcibly immigrate en masse and seize control. The natives eventually balked, but too late and the overwhelming masses of armed violent Jewish invaders took over.

I’m in a camp that doesn’t give a shit about religion, they’re all idiotic nonsense, but believes in law and order, and invading people seizing control by force and dehumanizing the natives is not a thing I’m prepared to gloss over or erase with one sided details. I don’t gloss over my own country’s inhumane origins of genocidal racism against our natives, and I support any measure that returns anything they’ve been stripped of.

I’m also in a camp that doesn’t think it’s ok to murder and rape Peter to pay Paul for Patrick’s bill. The Palestinians bear zero responsibility for Jews treatment in Europe. None.

I’m also in a camp that believes “refugee” means you are a guest until you can return home, not a new citizen with more rights than natives.

The European Jews there are invaders acting terribly unreasonably, they’re very Trumpian in their actions, any slight against them is an excuse to go full bore Hitler against those kids with rocks.

I don’t “just declare invasion”. It was an invasion.
Foreign people came unwanted and illegally into the country and took over by force. That’s called an invasion in English by most definitions, and an invasion it was.
The forceful invaders are ALWAYS the bad guys, the oppressors are ALWAYS the bad guys, the expansionists are ALWAYS the bad guys. That describes all the Israeli people. They are the bad guys, whether they intended to be or not.

"Who the fuck cares what the reason they wanted to invadeflee was?"

Characterization matters a little here, no?

"They had a right to refugee status there, not to take control and possession by force"

Which is at the heart of things.

The Arab narrative is that Jews arrived guns loaded and set about pillaging, killing and invading as soon as they had sufficient numbers, while the poor domestic Arab population had only been trying to assist and welcome in the refugees...

Which is ahistorical propaganda.

The reality is that for the most part, the European Jews arriving in Palestine were refugees and acting like refugees. Meaning they mostly just wanted to be able to provide food, shelter and safety for the families, just like everyone else. Most of them tried to set about doing this by legally purchasing land.

Lots of the local Arabs similarly were content to get along.

At that same time though, there were hardcore Zionists among the Jewish arrivals AND there were xenophobic elements willing to use violence within the Arab population too.

The tensions rose as the populations rose, but largely as a result of a large people being displaced, and NOT as the planned invasion you describe. The local Arab population started to band together to refuse to work, trade or sell to Jews. Violence broke out instigated separately on smallish scales by BOTH sides. Escalating violence followed, again back and forth between sides.

I'm in a camp that has a hard time blaming either the domestic Arab population for distress at the huge influx of refugees, nor for the European Jewish people having a low tolerance for discrimination and violence directed there way solely for being Jewish.

I see it as a huge mess, but with two large populations of Jewish and Arab people in Palestine acting not terribly unreasonably under circumstances of extreme pressure.

I think it's lazy and convenient to just declare 'invasion' so that you can simplify it all down to right/wrong and good guy/bad guy....

Sad that the article and @StukaFox both forgot the emp, that kills all electronics, making your car your tomb if it was made after 1980.
A car is only a decent shelter if it’s at the bottom of an underground parking structure that doesn’t collapse in the blast.
Cars are not escape vehicles in this scenario. There won’t be many erratic drivers, like the article claimed, because any car with a computer chip will be dead.

Not so according this article

https://www.businessinsider.com/survive-nuclear-attack-fallout-shelter-cars-2017-5?op=1

A car would be a perfect place to shelter:

1. The windscreen blocks UV light.
2. A car isn't going to collapse on you.
3. The car has actual shock absorbers to absorb the ground shock.
4. The car isn't innately flammable and even has a thermal barrier in the paint, metal and insulation.
5. The car has a radio.
6. The car is mobile and can (to whatever degree roads are passable) get you out of danger.
7. The car has a trunk to hold containers of water safely (double-safely if they're inside an ice chest inside the trunk)
8. You can sleep in a car.
9. In any circumstance in which a car was destroyed by the blast/heat, you were fucked anyway.

I have a friend who is a Beavis-and-Butthead level pyro. He loves blowing things up, and he feels that little things like forewarning may spoil the surprise. He has many claims to fame, but this is among the most notorious:

In the mid-90s, at the place we've been camping for 30+ years, he poured an entire can of Red Dot Smokeless gunpowder down an anthill, then lit it. This was cool for all of about three seconds when it hissed and sputtered like a little volcano. It was far less cool when the gunpowder-packed anthill suddenly went off like Mt. St. Helens. Dirt and REALLY fucking pissed off biting ants blasted high in the air before raining down on the heads of the unwitting spectators, and promptly taking their revenge.

There's nothing quite like being showered with burned, angry biting ants to round out a weekend. Jeff thought this was funny as Hell, because he'd scampered out of range when he realized things were going to go very wrong -- things ALWAYS went very wrong -- and had taken shelter upwind. Later, as in 4:00am the next morning, he set off a stick of dynamite in a creek for an encore, also without warning. And after the booming echoes settled down, the only sound for miles around was this maniacal, hysterical laughter echoing in the impenetrable dark.

To this day, if he starts laughing, I RUN.

My condolences on your loss(es), Ant.

Your video, Albuquerque’s Cold War Blast Shelter, has made it into the Top 15 New Videos listing. Congratulations on your achievement. For your contribution you have been awarded 1 Power Point.

Biden wins and all is fine.
Open up and go about your business.


Her issues are heart felt. Dead bodies are the proof of this pandemic.


Government involvement:
States need to divert funding from projects likes road expansion or such and fund this.

Federal level provide manpower, shelter etc.

Health care expenses. Not sure this a Federal issue. What if hurricane comes and injure people does the Fed pay for medical? Should it?

Funeral expenses. All deaths are untimely and most have issue with costs. But this will occur to all some day, ready or not. I can see the State prepare a mass grave to deal with the overwhelming death rate. Still not a Federal issue.

FEMA could be involved with refrigerator trucks, manpower for dealing with the dead. But the state would need to request .

At some point, you can only lay out so many cables of anchor chain. I'm guessing she was anchored bow and stern to come in sideways like this? Otherwise she got super lucky to hit broadside on (and so did the dock). Really, if you can't be in a sheltered cove, you want to be at sea in conditions like this and get some sea room and take on the wind and waves on the best possible terms.

You are right Trump should have cam clean and step up to the mic and say We are Fck. many will die. take shelter


newt, a good leader brings calm to the nation.

Yet another non story.

Every other day some new fake story to come .

If the remarks being contradicted are not only smug they're also ridiculous, devoid of fact, racist, and or dangerously stupid (like insisting in May that Coronavirus is a hoax that's not dangerous and is a "nothing burger", and everyone should be back at work), and contradicting them with facts and references and +- 1/4 the disrespect the original remarks contained makes people vote for Trump, that does indicate they were already trumpsters imo.

Edit: It's like Democrats have a high bar to clear, but Republicans have no depth too deep to stoop to.

Trump changes Bob's beliefs daily, every time he changes a position Bob changes his belief to make the new position seem reasonable to him. He is not consistent. No other opinion matters to him.

I don't hold beliefs, I have theories. It's easy to change your theory when given new information, I do all the time. Beliefs don't work that way, so I avoid them as much as possible.

Yes, and I eat animals because they're delicious. I would eat people if they were raised and fed better, but we are polluted beyond recovery imo.

You may be correct, but eating meat is hardly the worst thing humans are up to. Killing for sport seems worse, so do kill "shelters", puppy mills, habitat destruction, ocean acidification, etc....I could go on for pages with that list. I try to eat free range locally farmed on family farms meat, not factory farm meat. I know the difference in quality.

I gladly discuss vegetarianism with honest people, but I'm prepared when they start spouting bullshit like " eating any red meat is more harmful than smoking two packs a day of filterless cigarettes" (yes, someone insisted that was true because they didn't care it wasn't, it helped scare people, I contradicted him every time he lied.) The difference is, I could agree with some of their points that weren't gross exaggeration, I agreed that excessive meat eating is horrible for people, I agree that most meat is produced under horrific conditions, I would not agree that ALL meat is unhealthy in any amount and ALL meat is tortured it's entire lifetime because I know from personal experience that's just not true. We raised cattle, free range cattle, in the 70's. They were happy cows that had an enjoyable life roaming our ranch until the day they went to market, a life they wouldn't have if people didn't eat meat.

I've never met a vegan that wasn't a bold faced liar in support of veganism, so I'm less likely to give them a full chance at convincing me. The fact checking part of my brain goes on high alert when talking with them about health or other issues involved in meat production, with excellent reason.

Again, that would be long held theories in my case, and it's not hard to change them. Mad cow disease got me to change until I was certain it wasn't in America. No, I'm not recoiling. I'll listen to anyone who's respectful and honest.

Here's the thing, Bob consistently trolls in a condescending, self congratulatory, and bat shit crazy way. Turnabout is fair play.
As the only person willing to reply to him for long stretches, I know him. I've had many private conversations with him where he's far more reasonable, honest, willing to admit mistakes, etc. (Something I gave up when he applauded Trump lying under oath because "only a dummy tells the truth under oath if the truth might harm them, Trump winning!") When someone is so anti truth and snide, they deserve some snidely delivered truth in return. Bob has proven he's undeserving of the civility you want him to receive, it's never returned.

Bob does not take anything in from any source not pre approved by Trump. I've tried for a decade, and now know he only comes here to troll the libtards. It doesn't matter if you show him video proof and expert opinions, he'll ignore them and regurgitate more nonsense claiming the opposite of reality. He's not trying to change minds, in case you're confused. He's hoping to trick people who for whatever reason refuse to investigate his factless hyper biased claims and amplify the madness. That he comes here to do that, a site he regularly calls a pure liberal site (it's not) is proof enough to convict him of just trolling.

Trolls deserve derision.

I spent years ignoring his little jabs, insults, derisions, and whinging and trying hard to dispassionately contradict his false claims with pure facts and references, it was no different then.
While privately he would admit he's wrong, he would then publicly repeat the claims he had just admitted were bullshit. When he started supporting perjury from the highest position on earth down as long as they're Republican but still calls for life in prison for democrats that he thinks lied even not under oath, he lost any right to civil replies imo. He bought it when Republican representatives said publicly in interviews that they have no obligation to be truthful with the American people, and he applauds it and repeats their lies with glee.

Edit: in general I agree that dispassionate fact based replies with references are better at convincing people than derision, there are exceptions, and there are those who are unconvinceable and disinterested in facts that don't support their lies. How long are you capable of rebutting them with just fact and references when they are smug, snide, insulting, dangerous, and seriously delusional if not just purely dishonest?

Rebuttal?

Out of this world! I guess we know what some people do with their shelter-in-place time...

Democrats acted quickly, first to shelter in place, San Francisco, first state, California.....Trump pushed back and kept Republican run cities and states open while insisting there was no pandemic, Chinese hoax, liberal hoax, less deadly than the flu, gone by April, no ppe shortage, everyone can get a test. Cases in those states are mostly still on the upswing, with round two now a certainty.

Trump is still breathing. America is losing.

Best to investigate Trump and his cronies in real time, it minimizes the damage he can do. The investigations have already exposed numerous senator's insider trading attempts to profit from the pandemic. It's also revealed the reason Trump refused WHO tests and put us months behind S Korea...the company that makes the American test donated over $1.5 million to political campaigns this year. That must be why it was worth waiting months to get them at all and still be in short supply. They paid for the contract.

So, Democrats work hard to try to save the lives of their constituents, Trump, because he has nothing better to do besides play more golf, wrote a nasty political smear filled with ignorance and self congratulatory lies. Keep in mind, he's admitted he's so incompetent that his impeachment, which he claimed was a nothing burger, distracted him from having time to properly deal with Coronavirus....but he had plenty of time to golf.

Trump was pushed to enact a travel ban from China a month after the danger was clear to everyone with a brain, it was not him dragging the CDC like he claims, but he had dragged his feet so long that most airlines had cancelled those flights well before he acted....but not before numerous infected were here. January first he should have acted. That would have made a difference.

Trump called this a flu until it was too late, telling the nation there's no need to prepare through February. This led to panic when reality hit us hard.

Trump publicly said that if Democrats aren't nice enough to him his Whitehouse won't respond to their state. That's politics being played with millions of lives by Trump.

Trump has publicly told governors to go find supplies on their own, don't look to the Fed to procure and distribute necessary medical devices, then ordered the Fed to bid against those states for that same equipment. That's playing politics with citizens lives.

Trump STILL refuses to order a nation wide shelter in place order because he doesn't want any responsibility for one. That's playing politics.

Trump inexplicably didn't use the defense production act until last Friday, but he's used it reportedly hundreds of thousands of times to procure materials for the military....chemicals for missiles, materials for aircraft carriers, using the law to put the military orders first in line repeatedly. That's playing politics.

Trump reluctantly had ventilators sent to a few hard hit states, <5% of the numbers needed, but shipped broken units to Democratic states and told them they need to be appreciative (translation, kiss his ass on TV) or he won't send more. Again, playing politics with citizens lives.

Also don't forget Trump ended the CDC international pandemic detection program last September, months before the outbreak in China. This program was designed to detect and protect from New viral outbreaks, and would have given America a fighting chance to avoid any infections at all had it not been killed by Trump.

This kind of ignorant propaganda is exactly what I expect from @bobknight33. Using Trump's statements as if they're fact is incredibly dumb, Bobby. Even you admit the man doesn't tell the truth, you just prefer his divisive lies to the truth.

Hilarious you tag this philosophy, it's not...news, it's not.....*lies , that's a proper tag. *facepalm
I would downvote, but this drivel isn't worth watching through. I was at my lie limit under one minute in.

BTW, someone should remind him, nuking them from orbit didn't stop the xenomorphs....it didn't even stop that outbreak of xenomorphs, it only exposed the ignorance of the Space Marines for thinking "nuke em" answers all problems. So dumb Bobby.

It's been well known since January if not before that asymptomatic people can transmit Coronavirus. This has been widely reported and warned about publicly in congressional hearings by CDC officials for months.

Whether or not the governor of Georgia really just erased his inexplicable ignorance yesterday, not ordering citizens to stay home is arguably criminal negligence (Criminal negligence refers to a mental state of disregarding known or obvious risks to human life and safety.) and he should go to prison along with any governor that denies the obvious dangers of not issuing a shelter in place order. Remember, the 100000-250000 expected American deaths are the prediction only if the entire country takes social distancing/shelter in place seriously, if just one state refuses and becomes a viral hot zone that number could reach 6000000 or higher.
*quality