Altuism is just reverse sadism.

Yes, that's where we differ, because she sure didn't seem to be trying to leave to me, just had an inability to stand still under stress, like many 15 year olds. (And as I've said, it's the macing a handcuffed, secured girl that's out of line imo, the manhandling was just more than needed and was certain to escalate problems rather than solve them, so not smart but on the low end of the scale of acceptability, the macing was a pure assault in my eyes, for no good reason beyond sadism. It was not the right way to get her in the car.)

Keep in mind, she gets on her bike and rides (slowly) with ZERO complaint from the officer she's right in front of, he LET her do it, then got pissed off that she did it. WTF?!
Again, this could have been solved with a simple command to sit down, a command they did not give. Also, detained is not under arrest. You are under zero obligation to submit to detention. If they thought she was leaving the scene, they should have arrested her. Instead, they said repeatedly that they were detaining her for 'cooperation of investigation' (not a crime) and a medical release (something they probably need for their own liability purposes, but not something they can arrest a person for as far as I know).

Yes, the little girl was in the wrong...did my saying exactly that confuse you?

Yes, I absolutely think that if an officer pepper sprayed another officer's child for something the first officer screwed up (like failing to put her all the way in the car) the parent would go ballistic and sue...no matter how their child had acted. Rude behavior is not a threat, the only legitimate reason to use force. I don't think they would see it like you do if it was their child.
Yes, they would also probably reprimand the child too, but bad manners do not excuse assault with a weapon on a handcuffed detainee.

There was no reason to use mace, the proper response is to pull her into the car from the other side.

Your analogy only works if the wolf hounds go after the sheep when there's not a wolf in sight.

Hours? Really? Try an extra 10 seconds to avoid 15 minutes of battle and days of court. "Sit down" doesn't take even that. If they don't have the patience to verbalize the instructions they want followed, they should quit. Deescalation is their job, and they absolutely failed, as they often do.

Remember, they repeatedly say they're only detaining her because she may need medical treatment, then they treat her in a way that ensures she needs medical treatment. If they were really trying to help her, they failed so utterly miserably that they all should quit today...but we know that was bullshit lies, right?

I'm guessing you've never had a gun to your head and a knee on your neck face down in a gutter because an officer made a mistake reading your licence plate and had zero patience for the car thief he was taking down, followed by threats of retaliation if you report them. You might give them less cooperation and leeway if you had.

To me a morally clarifying way to think about it is to ask, if all of the tradition were stripped away, would you still be okay with it.

Like, imagine a guy who likes to buy domestic pets and stab them to death over a few hours. He enjoys it, and cruelty exists in nature. But those arguments don't seem very convincing. Less cruelty is always better than more, and the joy of sadism isn't worth defending.

I think the hardest part of doing away with a tradition like this is having to realize that your parents and grandparents were kind of assholes. But we're all in that boat.

Meh, I don't like "art" that makes me uncomfortable. Smacks too much of intellectual sadism.

Schadenfreude has more to do with sadism than a lack of sympathy or of empathy.

>> ^CaptainPlanet:

>> ^budzos:
But Joker doesn't care what anyone thinks or feels. Not even Batman. He only cares for his own amusement and he's mostly amused by people dying .

each reboot has brought with it varying interpretations of these characters. the unequaled cruelty and sadism portrayed in TDN makes ledger the most memorable villain of all (to me)


Yeah sometimes people seem to get all tangled up in the analyzing and defamation of one iteration of a series or another. It doesn't ever bother me, I just watch what I want to watch and I either like it or don't. I didn't really like the American version of the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, but only because it changed a character dynamic that drew me into the series in the first place. I still think it's a good movie, it's just not for me...the difference is I'm not going to go around telling everyone how it's shit and they suck if they don't ONLY like the Swedish versions.

No one has done that here I'm just saying, it's something people do that annoys me...particularly with the Star Wars movies.

>> ^budzos:
But Joker doesn't care what anyone thinks or feels. Not even Batman. He only cares for his own amusement and he's mostly amused by people dying .


each reboot has brought with it varying interpretations of these characters. the unequaled cruelty and sadism portrayed in TDN makes ledger the most memorable villain of all (to me)

>> ^budzos:

Oh, fuck off.
Have you ever been assaulted by multiple people? It tends to give you a bit of an adrenaline surge. I can't stand this notion that if someone attempts to assault/murder you, you're obligated to stop defending yourself at the perfect moment as observed by some uninvolved third party.

>> ^petpeeved:
She tried to stop a sadistic act of violence with forceful language(and it was sadism. The body language of the male with the stick at the end was pure ego and no longer could be remotely considered self-defense.)


Oh, fuck off? I've been a member happily on this site for years but I can't recall a time when I've felt the level of discourse had dropped to general YouTube comment levels. The lack of respect for differing opinions is new and distressing.

Oh, fuck off.

Have you ever been assaulted by multiple people? It tends to give you a bit of an adrenaline surge. I can't stand this notion that if someone attempts to assault/murder you, you're obligated to stop defending yourself at the perfect moment as observed by some uninvolved third party.


>> ^petpeeved:

She tried to stop a sadistic act of violence with forceful language(and it was sadism. The body language of the male with the stick at the end was pure ego and no longer could be remotely considered self-defense.)

My point was that it was obvious this woman was not used to seeing this level of violence and THAT IS A GOOD THING.

She's not desensitized to it and it freaked her the hell out. She had NO IDEA what to do to stop it but I found her raw concern to be commendable and not at all worthy of the misogynistic criticisms and frankly stereotypical reaction its garnered in this thread.

She tried to stop a sadistic act of violence with forceful language(and it was sadism. The body language of the male with the stick at the end was pure ego and no longer could be remotely considered self-defense.) She obviously didn't have a phone on her since once she saw the beating would continue she began to frantically order people to call the police. I actually see her as a hero in this situation. Sure, her voice was shrill and unpleasant but she was doing everything in her power (and no, going to the mat with this guy isn't an option) to stop an assault.

We're living in a Worldstarhiphop.com world where instead of intervening or being shocked or horrified by acts of violence occuring in front of us, we whip out our video cameras and laugh uproariously about someone getting their head caved in.

That's why I can't fault this woman at all. I'm glad there are still a few people not walking around ready for mortal combat all the time. What a sick society where that is the norm.

*sadism und *schadenfreude

>> ^Trancecoach:

For anyone who's interested, the mental disorder that he's exhibiting is part of a subsection of paraphilias called frotteurism.


The healthiest thing this man can do is use Sublimation and become a part of some sort of sex show. Until then he's going to keep running into problems with the law.

Some other Paraphilias:
Pedophilia - sexual urges towards children
Exhibitionism - recurrent desire to expose genitals to a stranger
Voyeurism - sexual pleasure from watching other who are naked, grooming, or having sex.
Sadism - sexual pleasure derived from others' pain
Masochism - sexual pleasure derived from being abused or dominated
Fetishism - sexual focus on objects (transvestite falls in here)
Frotteurism - male rubbing of genitals against fully clothed woman to achieve orgasm, subways/buses (what is apparent in this video)
Zoophilia - animals preferred in sexual fantasies or practices
Coprophilia - combining sex and defecation
Urophilia - combining sex and urination
Necrophilia - preferred sex with cadavers
Hypoxyphilia - altered state of consciousness secondary to hypoxia while experiencing orgasm. (Autoerotic asphyxiation, etc.)

Oh, Ive interacted with cops a lot. They were German cops, but if any they would actually be more calm and more humane than American or Canadian. But I never noticed that. Sure, as cowboydan said, there are very nice ones, but they are rare.
All the other I know are arrogant assholes who even tend to have a slight tendency to sadism. They are almost always on a power trip, and if you for some reason dont act submissive (especially if youre younger than them), they will let you know that you have just crossed the line. They know very well their powers and that youre all but a wussy citizen, who can be arrested for bullshit, if they just want to.
Power corrupts. nuff said.


>> ^Shepppard:

>> ^cowboydan:
>> ^Shepppard:
People wonder why some cops are slightly hostile to them?

I don't think they do. It's because they carry guns, act like assholes and order people around. There are good cops, undoubtedly who take more of a subtle approach and are really looking to help out in their community, but all the terrible ones overshadow that, and there are far to many of them.

"The most absurd apology for authority and law is that they serve to diminish crime. Aside from the fact that the State is itself the greatest criminal, breaking every written and natural law, stealing in the form of taxes, killing in the form of war and capital punishment, it has come to an absolute standstill in coping with crime. It has failed utterly to destroy or even minimize the horrible scourge of its own creation." - Emma Goldman

Really, I'd LOVE to know your interactions with police. I've probably had more interaction with cops then anybody on the sift EVER will, and what you just described to me is complete and utter bullshit that you seem to be stringing together from bad youtube videos.

>> ^Seric:

>> ^ToKeyMonsTeR:
>> ^Seric:
I neither found the video entertaining or your arguments sufficiently valid.
Downvote.

I don't find your argument to be sufficiently valid.

I don't find your FACE sufficiently valid!
ahem
sorry Torquay, I didn't mean that...what I meant to say was:
Well Door Key, thank god we have a democratic style system here whereby voting determines the success of a video rather than the ideas of an individual.
Thoughts can be freely exchanged whilst being moderated by an overall majority, that way everyone can agree or disagree with an argument (or in this case, statement T__T ) without (again, in this case) affecting the majority vote of a video.
What I'm trying to say Palm Tree, is that a voting system allows me to have an opinion - and if that opinion is attempted to be quashed by a nonsensical one-liner. I will write a long, useless and utterly pointless post in response.


What I like about the "democratic" system here is the ability to *quality this as I see fit, maybe even shoot it a promote when I get another power point. Each side has valid arguments, and I'll tend to agree with both sides (interestingly enough).

The only problem I have is with the following argument:
Please don't attempt to legitimize this by arguing that these people voluntarily engage in this kind of activity. If they do so, it's because are afflicted by a lack of empathy along with foolish pride, recklessness and sadism.

How can you not legitimize what they do because they do it voluntarily? They absolutely know the risks of stepping in that ring, and do so willingly. I just wanted to make it clear that these guys know exactly what they're getting into. Why they do it, is for their own reasons, not for YOU to decide, but for them. (I wouldn't call them sadists, I have a friend who fights MMA and is certainly not one.)

Couldn't agree more with GenjiKilpatrick. I don't comment often (if at all), but I felt compelled to speak up regarding this. Original poster needs to rephrase his statement or seek help. What. The. Fuck. I am aghast. Please don't attempt to legitimize this by arguing that these people voluntarily engage in this kind of activity. If they do so, it's because are afflicted by a lack of empathy along with foolish pride, recklessness and sadism. That is all.