Let me spell it out.

This whole "your religon is worse" argument is bullshit and merely a disguise for racism.

clear ?

geez, women really don't get a break in this religon game.

Big upvote.

More and more I become of the opinion that religion is bad for business.

We need less good (insert religon here)s, and more good people.

Some atheists (not all) are the 'gun control' freaks of the philosophical world. Religion is too dangerous. Some people do too much harm with it. Therefore to prevent the harms, they want to remove religion from people. Supposedly that'll fix it, right?

Some individuals misuse religion. This is true. But such persons would misuse any tool or philosophy. Confining the argument to religon is a biased position to take when there are countless other political, social, financial, or other organizations that also influence people negatively.

The 'ban religion' proponents also damage thier credibility by grossly exaggerating the perceived 'harms' of religions, while studiously ignoring the many good things. Religions teach people to behave better, feel remorse, repent, change thier lives, treat others with charity, and improve the world. To ignore substantive 'good' and focus only on the 'bad' is the hallmark of a lazy argument borne out of ignorance, fear, prejudice, or hatred - and makes some atheists come across as alarmist demagogues rather than serious advocates.

And finally the entire 'take the bad away and you solve the problem' argument is a non-sequiter. Take the religion from people and human beings will still harm, maim, kill, butcher, oppress, be intolerant, and otherwise be jerks to thier fellow men. It isn't the religion. It is the PEOPLE. Take away the religion, and the jerks in the population will find some other avenue, excuse, motive, or organization to nurture their jerkiness.

Anti religion zealots are fighting the wrong battle. Instead of banning religions, you should join with them to encourage thier positive aspects and minimize the negatives. Working WITH religions and teaching more people to magnify thier positive aspects is far more likely to improve the world than any attempt to 'ban' a philosophy you personally dislike. You may feel religious motivation to do good is superstitious, outmoded, anachronistic humbuggery, but if your ultimate goal is 'better people' the trappings of religious creeds should be irrelevant to you.

If your goal is NOT 'better people' but 'I wanna wipe out religion cuz IhateitIhateitIhateit!' then that is another matter entirely...

you want a religon that is satisfying to your intellect? You cut the superstition? yeah well what you get is moral and ethics and for that no one needs a god. all you need is self discipline, integrity; to be fair with yourself, your knowledge and the rest of the world and its knowledge awaiting for you.

I agree this kind of atheist humour is saturated. I discovered that the process of ignoring something is quite similar to the process of something not exisiting, since its existence is substanciated by the feedback it gets in conflictuous occasions. Examples: a spoiled kid will try to draw attention by conflict; a religouse group will do something outrageous just so that we realize tehey do something therefore they exist (too bad for them that what they do is just useless to them and us).

that said, the bashing, the sarcasm, etc. seem to be dialectic plots to keep alive something that apparently is set to be weakened by these same procedures of the opposite point of view.

religon is old, and in teh tiems of teh internetz each one of us can be his/her own god, if so is needed. If not, better yet, rely on the intellect to judge your path. it will lead you to disgrace or harmony (see how these terms apply very well outside of a religious context, religous ones who rob and torn our words, universal our particular as they may be?...).

Ok I had to create a user account and logic just to respond to this statement, as a Canadian:

******Canada, never a bastion of freedom to begin with, has moved from "gay acceptance" to putting people in jail for speaking out against homosexuality as immoral or otherwise wrong. That's where America is headed with this nonsense. And it IS nonsense.******

This is biggest outright lie I have ever read. I follow the news in Canada religiously (pun intended, because I think if people followed what was going on in the world more than what was in some old book they'd be better people). Not once in Canada has anyone ever even been CHARGED with speaking out against homosexuality, never mind put in jail. Not once. This is a complete fabrication by someone who thinks that, because Americans know nothing about Canada, he can make something up and no one can contest it. This is exactly the type of BS the Yes on 8 campaign engaged in (and the Bush admin) where you spout so many lies your opponents can't debunk them fast enough and eventually some of them stick in the minds of voters.

Canada, btw, is an incredibly free country. I KNOW it to be much more so than the United States. That Americans still think they live in the freest country in the world is pure blind patriotic arrogance. In Canada, we don't have presidentally authorized illegal wiretaps on our phones. We don't have an illegal 'enemy combatant' offshore holding facility where we torture prisoners because we claim the Geneva conventions don't apply. Canada was the place African Americans fled to to escape slavery. It was and IS the place American soldiers come to to escape conscription into wars they believed were wrong. In Canada, we don't have 40 million of our citizens w/o any health care coverage.

We may not be the biggest player on the world stage, but I'd much rather be a wise advisor on the sidelines than the biggest bully in the room who got caught with their pants down.

And Canada, like Spain, Belgium and the Netherlands, has the RIGHT position on gay marriage. It's been legal here as early as 2003, and nothing bad at all has happened to straight marriage. More kids who need loving homes are being adopted by gay couples. Our society isn't perfect, but it's a damn sight better than the bigotry-masquerading-as-religon I see pervading yours. My apologies to all the intelligent, fair-minded Americans out there who can see through this nonsense, realize that gays deserve to marry (and that it won't lead to hell on earth) and that both Canada and the US have bigger concerns than to dwell on this issue.

holy crap, 14 downvotes.....what will happen when i post a vid of young male jewish settlers throwing rocks at old palistinan ladies.... did you guys know that the jewish guy who was the head protecting the holy black sea scriptures, from being shown to anyone but very few people, deannounced his religion as soon he reached retirement. when asked why, he said it was because he had realized his religon was about racism, and nothing else. nothing else!!!!! he added that he would never ever have anything to do with judism. no wonder why nothing from the scriptures has been made public. not a single word. and it kinda confirms to me that the human right violations the state of isreal have showed towards palistinians the last 60 yrs are not to end until the last palistinian has left the area.....im i allowed to say this? this is anti-jewish-something....i guess. will i get sued? death-threats?

here is a little uplifting reading from a holy book: http://wake-up-america.net/from_the_jewish_holy_book__the_t.htm

Yes, science is soo narrow-minded, especially compared to religon, oh my.

Fair enough. If you would have originally said,"All religions have questionable backgrounds," I wouldn't have said anything back. I just felt that you were attempting to lump my beliefs in with Scientology, as if our beliefs are similar. Or that our belief that the Book of Mormon comes from God is different than the Bible coming from God.




In reply to this comment by Farhad2000:
No I think all these are creations and manifestations of man, I could claim to receive Gods word now, the only thing stopping you or anyone else taking me serious is how far you are willing to believe this applies to Scientology, Mormonism, Islam, Christianity and all other religons.

At the end of the day all religions are creations of man, not the creation of God. Thus they are wrong. I too am being 100%.

There is no way anyone can convince anyone else that the Bible or any scripture is made by God.

No I think all these are creations and manifestations of man, I could claim to receive Gods word now, the only thing stopping you or anyone else taking me serious is how far you are willing to believe this applies to Scientology, Mormonism, Islam, Christianity and all other religons.

At the end of the day all religions are creations of man, not the creation of God. Thus they are wrong. I too am being 100%.

There is no way anyone can convince anyone else that the Bible or any scripture is made by God.

In reply to this comment by deedub81:
So, you agree with me that the only similarities have to do with flak from others.

Is that so much more different than the accounts of Moses claiming to part the Red Sea, or Noah building an arc? Why is it okay for some to claim to have received the word of God 2000 years ago, and not okay for them to say they received the word of God yesterday?

I'm being 100% serious.

In reply to this comment by Farhad2000:
L. Ron Hubbard makes shit up about Xenu, DC-10s, thetans and all that good stuff.

Joseph Smith makes shit up about getting golden plates from an Angel. Oh and Jesus visited America, multiple gods and worlds. Oh by the way they also have modern prophets whose official statements become official canon.

I was relating them as two relatively modern belief systems with questionable origins. Not directly.

In reply to this comment by deedub81:
What's questionable about Mormonism as it relates to Scientology? I fail to see any similarities, other than the amount of scrutiny the two receive.

Scientology has a known history of abuse, illegal activity, and motives for world domination, for lack of a better term.

Where are the parallels?

In reply to this comment by Farhad2000:
You sound like a nice person whose trying to defend a religion that has questionable origins and backgrounds.

It's like Scientology. Also based on questionable facts, but am sure there are some nice folks who practice it.

I don't really understand what you mean by anti-Mormon propaganda, I would love if you could show me some sources.

Before anyone reads this understand, that while i do oppose gay marriage, i do not believe the rights of gays should be any different than those of any other memember of the human race.
my belief is simple, the classic marriage is a Christian ceremony, and many Christians interput the bible as labeling homosexuality as a sin, so to condone the joining of a homosexual couple in Christian marriage is legally requiring some one to do something that may be strictly against their interpitation of their religon, and i don't believe the government should have that right, (freedom of Religon) why not allow them to be married with all the same legal benifits as any other couple, but without it being necessarily a Christian marriage, there are many culture joinings of life mates besides the standard christian idea of marriage, and like ellen said, the love is the same, and that stands whether they were married as Christians or in anyother fashion...
and if anything i have said is either factually wrong, or has offended anyone please respectfully critize and correct, please do not flame

Just a note, if you do not subscribe to any particular religion or belief, you are an atheist. I would strongly urge you to read The God Delusion. I thought much the same way as you, calling myself an agnostic and feeling that religion did have some benefits. Dawkins makes an overwhelming case for religion doing much more harm than good, but even if having delusions was beneficial, they're still delusions. If we were able to rid the world of these fantasies, there is no doubt in my mind we could find other highly effective methods for drug-dependence rehabilitation and family/community bonding. I feel clear-headed about the whole subject at last, and I hope it can do the same for you. Even if it doesn't, you'll have a better understanding of us atheists.


In reply to this comment by Shepppard:
Just because you think that religion is stupid and pointless, doesn't mean it is.

Where it may not make sense in some aspects, and it is definitely bias in it's views, for millions of people it brings hope into their lives. I've got friends who were addicts, who sobered up because of a religion, they believe that God/Christ/whoever in the religion helped them through it... That doesn't seem pointless to me.

It brings people closer around holidays, and makes most church goers into a community.

I, for one, don't go to chruch, nor do I believe in any one given religion, I'm not an Athiest.. more of an Agnostic, but I don't think anything that brings people together, or brings them hope, is truly pointless.

>> ^AceOfKidneys:
Its not any worse then anything any religon does today. Anyway you take it any religion is stupid and pointless, and we would be healthier, happier, NON-NUKED, human beings.

Just because you think that religion is stupid and pointless, doesn't mean it is.

Where it may not make sense in some aspects, and it is definitely bias in it's views, for millions of people it brings hope into their lives. I've got friends who were addicts, who sobered up because of a religion, they believe that God/Christ/whoever in the religion helped them through it... That doesn't seem pointless to me.

It brings people closer around holidays, and makes most church goers into a community.

I, for one, don't go to chruch, nor do I believe in any one given religion, I'm not an Athiest.. more of an Agnostic, but I don't think anything that brings people together, or brings them hope, is truly pointless.

>> ^AceOfKidneys:
Its not any worse then anything any religon does today. Anyway you take it any religion is stupid and pointless, and we would be healthier, happier, NON-NUKED, human beings.

Its not any worse then anything any religon does today. Anyway you take it any religion is stupid and pointless, and we would be healthier, happier, NON-NUKED, human beings.

All religons are irrational.