yes, terrifiing...and the next administration will do similar things, to distract and empower themselves....again, finger-waggers, global warming is being used as a tool....the planet changes come from whatever you read and smooth over your minds like apple butter....why are the voices of dissent not allowed their day in the media, or even into the media event in Bali?....Gore's bullshit Nobel lubricant is quite the symbolic tool as well.....(http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/site/article/122)

\Think about, (without degrees in any of the disciplines that you would need to verify the SO-CALLED, "experts" data rationally,which the loudest criers of GW DON'T HAVE) the facts....the simple facts-

The earth belches more CO2 than we ever will, and the sun and the dance shared with earth is never spoken of....in here lay the real answers to the cyclical dynamics of our planet AND for whatever reasons, the GW camp is using to give us a mixture of true false and meaningless information-lapped up by minds addicted to so-called facts.

fuck left and right, the world's empire builders play all sides against the middle-You want to stop human CO2 emmissions? What you really need to stop, is the economic systems of exchange and commerce, that make it happen. Stop using petroleum-stop paying into inefficient systems-get rid of $$$ and then be ever vigilant for future vampires......

the world is moving rapidly towards way worse than global cooling, warming, or par-boiling.....it is becoming filled with the distracted, the manipulated and the developmentally disabled....glad you found a kindred spirit for yer blog, mate.....the world needs fewer who think themselves into ineffectual knots, not another goddamned pep-rally

you continue to confuse, belwilder and confound me. While I couldn't agree more with you when you state "knowledge being the ultimate power for freedom, or a weapon of control."

But if that is the case, then why do you persistently berate me for trying to provide "knowledge" to those of faith ? A recent study indicated that 80% of people don't know the details about their faith (what they believe) in regards to the bible.

I mainly spout for those who are on the fence and aren't aware of the "details". People sell religion as the "truth", but when one looks behind the curtain they realize it is smoke and mirrors. Don't get pissed at me for wanting to help bpeople see behind the curtain.

you say

"some simply avoid issues like these, conflict at any cost being foreign or uncomfortable.....the folks that dive head-first into issues with gusto are seekers of truth and meaning......"

I would put myself in the seekers of truth category. so again, why the constant need to harass me ?

you also say

"the tone may seem scolding, but sometimes effective"

scolding ? your immature name calling does not fall under "scolding". I appreciate your comments much more when you leave out the ad hom attacks. you have enough knowledge in your head about the issues to contribute really quality comments without reverting to nasty and uncalled for comments about my character.

Qruel


In reply to this comment by choggie:
Great example, using that Tesla article, to use to explain my conviction, that most likely, technologies exist, and have existed for some time now, that would render the use of petroleum for power, ancient history the day after tomorrow.

Tesla would not play the money game, so they kept him around, under virtual lock and key, until he was gone-why would they want to give the world free energy? That would fuck up the contrived economic monster they feed......this is why when folks talk about solar power and wind power and alternative fuels, recycling, etc., it isa goddamn diversion from the real issue, which is, knowledge is power, and we are being controlled and herded.

Free energy from the ether, is available, real, and present. We simply are kept in the dark, black, pool of oily control.

Fuck solar power and hybrid cars....I want real energy!!! The energy they keep from us-the knowledge that would kill their game, has always been the stuff of lock and key.....same mechanism that kept slaves form learning to read in America......knowledge being the ultimate power for freedom, or a weapon of control.

Before the Iranians turned on the Shah they had a very popular democratically elected leader named Mossadeq. In 1953 he was overthrown by coup - US/UK punishment for nationalizing Iranian oil, which the British and British Petroleum (BP) saw as their property. The coup was partly orchestrated by the grandson of Theodore Roosevelt, Kermit Roosevelt, a CIA stooge. It's not likely the Iranians have forgotten their history.

... Paid for by the polyethylene producers of america.

all jokes aside, its the plasticizers, flame retardants and other additives that they add into making PVC and most other polymers that create the toxic fumes. You cant just blame PVC for this, there are other polymers that contain the same toxic chemicals. At least PVC wont burst into flames like its less flame retardant cousin ABS...

...not that im a rep for Big PVC; in fact i think that we should focus more effort into developing non-petroleum based polymers, at this point the technology is there but there it's a relatively new process and thus very expensive to produce (a couple of bucks a pound vs. a few cents a pound for the stuff your water bottle is made of) plus plastics made from organic compounds are *GASP* biodegradable.

thank you so much for taking the time to research that and contribute such a quality post

Q

In reply to this comment by xxovercastxx:
nib, lucky for me they've got a fair amount of that PIG book available for free on Google books so I just took a quick look at it before I head to bed.

One of the things that stood out was a group of pie charts which shows carbon dioxide among a few other greenhouse gases. It's not a greenhouse gas if it has zero effect on global temperature.

The book was apparently written by a lawyer, Christopher Horner, who is a recognized expert on "global warming legislation and regulation". That's something, but he's no climatologist. Chapter 1 is dedicated to calling environmentalists "anti-American communists". The first paragraph was really all I needed to read to understand that this book has no value to me.

It's endorsed by Richard Lindzen, who is a climatologist and has worked in related fields as well. His position seems to be similar to what I said in my initial post; that the temperature is rising but we're not entirely sure why yet. He's been criticized for taking payment of $2500/day from oil/coal companies for consulting services. He's been funded and/or supported by Western Fuels and OPEC.

The book is also endorsed by a few senators, and nobody believes anything they say so I think we can just ignore that.

The following organizations have taken the stance that global warming is at least partially due to human activity:

The aforementioned IPCC
The National Science Academies of Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Russia, the UK and the US
The US National Research Council
The American Meteorological Society
The American Geophysical Union
The American Institute of Physics
The American Astronomical Society
The Federal Climate Change Science Program
The American Association for the Advancement of Science
The Geological Society of London
The Geological Society of America
The American Chemical Society
The Institution of Engineers Australia
The American Association of State Climatologists
The American Association of Petroleum Geologists

The American Association of State Climatologists, by the way, is made up of state climatologists, assistant climatologists under the state climatologist and retired climatologists. They state a membership count of "approximately 150". That's 70 more than you claim exist in the country.

nib, lucky for me they've got a fair amount of that PIG book available for free on Google books so I just took a quick look at it before I head to bed.

One of the things that stood out was a group of pie charts which shows carbon dioxide among a few other greenhouse gases. It's not a greenhouse gas if it has zero effect on global temperature.

The book was apparently written by a lawyer, Christopher Horner, who is a recognized expert on "global warming legislation and regulation". That's something, but he's no climatologist. Chapter 1 is dedicated to calling environmentalists "anti-American communists". The first paragraph was really all I needed to read to understand that this book has no value to me.

It's endorsed by Richard Lindzen, who is a climatologist and has worked in related fields as well. His position seems to be similar to what I said in my initial post; that the temperature is rising but we're not entirely sure why yet. He's been criticized for taking payment of $2500/day from oil/coal companies for consulting services. He's been funded and/or supported by Western Fuels and OPEC.

The book is also endorsed by a few senators, and nobody believes anything they say so I think we can just ignore that.

The following organizations have taken the stance that global warming is at least partially due to human activity:

The aforementioned IPCC
The National Science Academies of Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Russia, the UK and the US
The US National Research Council
The American Meteorological Society
The American Geophysical Union
The American Institute of Physics
The American Astronomical Society
The Federal Climate Change Science Program
The American Association for the Advancement of Science
The Geological Society of London
The Geological Society of America
The American Chemical Society
The Institution of Engineers Australia
The American Association of State Climatologists
The American Association of Petroleum Geologists

The American Association of State Climatologists, by the way, is made up of state climatologists, assistant climatologists under the state climatologist and retired climatologists. They state a membership count of "approximately 150". That's 70 more than you claim exist in the country.

no, vsbannedme, and snipe, not bereft of logic-the planet's natural belch, has always been bigger, than our own, and the thing has warmed and cooled, and warmed, and cooled, before, many times.....You'll find no "opponent", of anything but spin, with disregard for meaning, here. The global is warming, and the disinformation surrounding the cause, is a goddamn swirl.

"it appalls me to think that there are people in this world stupid enough"...blah blah blah blah, happy to appalls you today.

We'll all find out, soon enough.

By the by, if it were up to me, this would be a "green" planet, and would be surprised, if there were as many folk, who could do, "without", all the by-products of civilization, as well as m'self. And the planet? She would be in the same state as she is now, should we have never tapped the ground, for petroleum, though the air we breathe, would no-doubt, be fresher, in concentrated population areas, if there were, in fact, any concentrated areas like we have today, as the result of our "progress".

QuadraPixel: Are you saying that all the scientific bodies mentioned in this wikipedia article that have endorsed global warming as caused by human action are only liberal organizations or are completely wrong and are operating with no evidence?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change

Specifically the Dissenting statements section stating:
With the release of the revised statement by the American Association of Petroleum Geologists, no scientific bodies of national or international standing are known to reject the basic findings of human influence on recent climate.

From this I take it you're saying that every scientific organization that has made a statement on global warming is not attempting to do real science and is engaged in deception?

Belief has nothing to do with it fedquip. He hasn't done anything to deserve the Peace Prize, unless one tries to make some absurdly extrapolated argument about what might happen when the seas rise and we start running out of petroleum and fresh water.

Look around the planet at the conflicts that are currently happening, and you will find people who are doing their utmost to reduce that violence.

@Ed.Man - For one thing, your statement depends on where you live in the world; refined fules based from petroleum are not cheap in all corners of the world due to many factors (transportation costs, public and private 'taxation', etc.). On the other side some places have more continual winds than others, greatly affecting how economical local windpower is. And reiterating jimnms point, you have to take into account energy used in continual mining, processing, transporting, etc., with oil power generation, and also the one-time fabrication, transport, and installation with wind powered generators (and, one would hope, infrequent replacement and maintenance costs). As it stands now I'm tempted to counter your claim by noting that wind, as a fuel, costs ZERO dollars per 'unit' of usable energy, which is a pretty good deal.

In other words, your blanket statement need qualifiers and sources. Yes, I'm the self-imposed citation nazi of these boards. Nice to meet you.

A walmart, for the uninitiated, is a concrete structure with at least 15000 sqaure feet minimun floorspace, containing items consisting mainly of petroleum by-products, sugar, and working-class poor, the most highly decorated of which can be called manager/supervisor-While their job duties are only slightly different, the supervisors,checkers,and stockers all for the most part, have these things in common:

Poor health bennies
Paycheck-to-paycheck job security
Little or no company pride,enthusiasm,or loyalty

The kind of beast that Walmart is, dictates the overall vibe of the institution.
Little or no concern for the human factor, or their quality of life, and profit-driven above all else.

Quality is a thing of the distant past.
In the not to distant pass, it was the poorest with regard to monetary wealth, who were the artisans and producers of quality in this country.
Go to Turkey...they still make the finest tile and marble...
to Belgium for chocolate, to Trinidad for steel drums....

Come to America for worthless shit, imported from Taiwan...a city known for its endless miles of sweatshops and manufacturing compounds....toxic waste, ansd human wreckage....Exploitation is the walmart difference!!!!

I hope you two are right -- I'm no doomsday junkie; it's not as if I'm longing for the day when it all falls apart etc etc. That said, just because there are theoretical solutions out there (for some, not all, of the problems an oil crash would pose) does not mean they can or will be ramped up in time. As for the standpoint that the market will automatically solve the problem, what about the fact that the market is petroleum-based?

I know a guy who isn't worried about the severe turmoil that oil depletion could cause (and which I think probably will cause). I asked him how he could be so sanguine about it and he said "we'll think of something, because we'll have no other option but to think of something". But just because it may come down to "sink or swim" does not mean that we will automatically manage to swim. We could be destroyed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_cleaning

Dry cleaning uses non-water-based solvents to remove dirt and stains from clothes. The potential for using petroleum based solvents in this manner was first discovered in the mid-19th century by French dye-works owner Jean Baptiste Jolly, who noticed that his tablecloth became cleaner after his maid spilled kerosene on it, and from this observation developed a service to clean other people's clothes in this manner, which he termed "nettoyage à sec," or "dry cleaning" in English.[1]

Early dry cleaners used petroleum-based solvents, such as gasoline and kerosene. Concerns over flammability led William Joseph Stoddard, a dry cleaner from Atlanta, to develop Stoddard solvent as a slightly less flammable alternative to gasoline-based solvents. The use of highly flammable petroleum solvents led to many fires and explosions, which resulted in heavy regulation of dry cleaners.

After World War I, dry cleaners began using various chlorinated solvents. These solvents were much less flammable than petroleum solvents and had much greater cleaning power. By the mid-1930s the dry cleaning industry had adopted tetrachloroethylene (perchloroethylene) as a standard, colloquially called "perc," as the ideal solvent. It is stable, nonflammable, and has excellent cleaning power and is gentle to most garments.

"... using gasoline as a household cleaning fluid (?!)"

My brother-in-law taught me to use lighter fluid to clean glue off floor tiles. My guess is gasoline, also being a petroleum-based product, is good at lifting oils or oil-based substances from a surface, so that's why they were using gasoline as a cleaning fluid.

This behemoth has done more slashing and burning of the landscape of America's small communities than the retreating Russians' fleeing Hitler....Talk about yer Hydra, these sinister bastards are a Medusic hairdo of serpents, killing the poor, the tired, the hungry....A perfect example of why absolute power, fucks shit up!

Wanna talk about Petroleum??? Walmart, as long as we let them, will bring enough equivalent plastic crap from China into the U.S. to max every landfill in the country with enough surface product to take our children's children to the nearest star.

What do you want? Shit from walmart or a planet worth claiming for the species....can yall' tell choggie hates walmart??? Do steal there, though, and dump trash and tinkle their parking lot.

One day, when cars line the streets and highways immobile, perhaps we'll stroll past these empty sarcophagii, and remember allll the plastic shit we could'nt live without....until now.