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I never realized how much Patton Oswalt resembles him.

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@Chairman_woo

Sorry to have misunderstood. Glad to know that your words, which seemed pretty straightforward, don't mean what I thought they meant.

I'm not interested in explaining myself more than I have. Chaosengine gets it. Maybe Patton Oswalt gets it -- it's hard to say about him, though. Would he see the same disconnect from empathy and "kicking upwards" as I see? Can't know that without him chiming in. I do know he "gets it" generally.

I'm happy with letting it be at this point.

Exactly. Oswalt calls it "kicking upwards."

Comedians are at their best when they expose something true about the world, and they lay bare the lies of the entitled and the vicious.

Lindy West discusses this in her new book Shrill. Great book. I think she even uses the phrase "kicking upwards." It is lazy joke writing to trade in stereotypes. It is lazy joke writing to kick people who are "down."

Louis CK tells a funny rape joke. Oddly enough, on the page it probably reads terrible, just as Jim Jeffries says about this particular bit of his. The difference is, for me, that Louis lays bare in no uncertain terms EXACTLY what a rapist does and so exposes the brutality and utter selfishness of their entitlement. It's brilliant.

Mr Jeffries doesn't do that. He isn't "kicking upwards" enough for me. Not in this rape culture world. (And good on him for weaving the criticism into his bit, in an attempt to do what Louis CK does.)

@Asmo

Did you read the link to Patton Oswalt?

He talks about what he learned about "rape jokes" by educating himself on the rape culture in our society, and the place of the "victim" in humor.

I have laughed at plenty of rape jokes that made fun directly of rapists. I see how Jim tried to do that here. I don't think he succeeded. Certainly, it was improved by his narrative frame of including the woman who complained about his "rape jokes." That helped.

I removed myself (or thought I was going to) because I have been insulted and attacked in the past on the Sift on this subject. That isn't happening this time around, for which I am deeply grateful.

This time around, it is just a difference of opinion. I got no problems with a difference of opinion.

@Chairman_woo

You're right. I just skimmed it, when your essay appeared to be about the mechanics of humor. Which is not what I was taking issue with. (I'm a huge fan of this guy, in general.)

Did you read the link I did to Patton Oswalt's Wall of Text?

You don't have to. However, the subject is a minefield that has a context that perhaps you are missing in your scholarly approach.

[She, by the way. This is photo of my father the year before he died. My favorite picture of him. I know it is confusing...]

Yeah. No.

He didn't nail it. He doesn't get it.

And I have heard funny rape jokes. It is possible to tell the truth about rape and be funny.

Maybe once rape isn't something that is filmed by young men standing around a passed out young woman at a party, maybe when that crap is STOPPED WHEN IT IS HAPPENING, instead of being filmed, then these jokes will become funny.

Until then....

Nope.

I'm not going to defend this point of view, so go ahead and tell me how I am wrong.

And then read this, written by Comedy God Oswalt Patton.

http://www.pattonoswalt.com/index.cfm?page=spew&id=167

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Thought the same thing. The Patton Oswalt bit was funny.

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