Well, they have done an excellent job gaslighting truth, common sense, and reality. Opting for fascism instead of the democratic idealism. Replacing freedom with oppression. It's a LOT.

“ my solution would be every able bodied Jewish man and woman join the French (or Polish, Russian, British) army and fucking fight…”

I agree that’s the noble thing to do, but I can’t condemn the ones that choose to seek safety in numbers with Jewish Palestinians as exclusively invasion minded aggressors. My 6 million tag was maybe a bit sharp, but you also know that the Nazi’s took Paris and as much as it sucked to be French or European under Nazi occupation, you also know adding Jewish to that carried a lot of extra consequence and danger to your family.

My POV is agnostic of everything save Isreali people today having a right exist as a nation. Which at this point from my POV leaves 1947 as somewhat academic.

It’s your insistence that Jewish people, and the existence of Israel, have always fundamentally been invaders that I was objecting to as it is so intensely at odds with factual history.

You gave a brief nod on not being a scholar of Palestinian history, but then proceed to just count all Jewish refugees as good as Zionist aggressors from day 1(or close enough), and the local Arab population as nothing but pure, kind caring victims of these invaders.

I will state again, that is ahistorical propaganda and NOT what actually happened. And for my POV, its enough generations back as to be Academic, but for your POV it is fundamental because without being able to writeoff Israel as invaders from day 1, nuance enters the calculus and suddenly the conflict is flooded with shades of grey because lots of parties all contribute to the bloodshed, and many with reasonable motivations from both sides yet too.

Please find me any reputable sources to refute the reality of 1920-1940s Palestine:
-Mass Jewish immigration fleeing European oppression raised tensions between Jewish and Arab Palestinians.(as one must expect)
-Arab palestinians were already chaffing and resisting British colonial rule(as one must expect)
-These tensions led conflict, initially more ‘civil’ with the Arab majority trying to refuse all business, sales and trade with all Jews.
-Escalation followed throughout that time, but in drips and drops and NOT a ‘surprise the Zionist army has arrived’! style of aggression

The violent escalation was a fight here, a beating there. Little individual fights, escalating into deaths. Retaliations slowly grew, with each side exchanging small escalations.

-the culmination of this was eventually all out civil war, and the Jewish side immediately accepting a UN mandated 2 state solution

-this culmination coinciding with the end of WW2 and revelations of the true extent of the holocaust can’t be ignored, it certainly shaped the Jewish mindset in the conflict.

-Their mindset was pretty clearly not inaccurate either, as the immediate response of all neighbouring Arab nations was a declaration of war on the new ‘state’, with bold claims of how quickly the Jews would be swept into the sea. The confidence was so high, a call was sent it for ALL Arab palestinians to abandon and flee the entire region of Palestine to better enable the complete cleansing of the land.

The above is all pretty much inarguably factual, and I’d bargain you could get an Arabic and Israeli scholar together to more or less agree on those facts which is saying alot.

——
Propaganda from both sides would like to declare that the Arabs harboured deep Nazi sympathies, and thus Israel was pure and true in all it did. Or from the other side, more or less your narrative of Zionist bad guys launching invasion from day 1(ish).

Both though are just sprinklings of half truths, with anti-British resentment naturally breeding some leanings towards the axis, and even genuine Nazi cleanse the Jews believers. And absolutely Zionists featured prominently within the Jewish population. Neither of those partial truths though make the propaganda of either side true, but instead just an incomplete and intentionally biased picture.


Again, please find me sources demonstrating I’m terribly wrong on all that, but the only ones I can find are clearly biased and the accurate accounts paint the picture above, the propaganda very, very clearly copies the real story more or less with just deletions of inconvenient bits

Hint- Not being 100% free of fear is no excuse for becoming the invading Nazis themselves. The Nazis used fear of the other as an excuse for expansionist inhumanity too….it’s not one.
Having lived through fascist oppression one would think they would be vehemently opposed to it, but they are instead relishing it.
Look at Netanyahu’s face when he talks about crushing and eradicating Palestinians, he’s really enjoying it.

If your group is suddenly being lambasted from all sides, you might consider why, not just whine that it’s unfair and scary. There’s good reason for rising anti Zionist sentiment today…and many on both sides aren’t bright enough to distinguish that from anti Jewish sentiment.

In some places, the six pointed star is the most prevalent symbol of murderous fascist hatred. Guaranteed it’s freshly painted on hundreds of flattened buildings today, many with dead children still inside. That’s a bit worse than a kid’s provocative tag under an overpass. Other recent instances include mosques burnt down and tagged with star of Davids. Don’t get it twisted, don’t excuse violence over fear.
https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/palestinians/2020-07-27/ty-article/.premium/west-bank-mosque-set-on-fire-vandalized-with-hebrew-graffiti/0000
017f-f494-d47e-a37f-fdbcd6f20000

Yes. What’s your point? You seem to agree with me, except you go back to the 20’s instead of early 30’s. I’m not a Palestine scholar, sorry if I get details or dates slightly wrong, sources vary on many points. It doesn’t change my point, that under British rule European Jews were allowed to immigrate in huge numbers despite opposition from the native population that was being overwhelmed by increasing unwanted forced immigration. At first it was accepted even encouraged by the empathetic natives, but quickly became an overwhelming unwanted invasion of people intent on taking over, not some moderate number of refugees looking for temporary refuge.

Who the fuck cares what the reason they wanted to invade was? Palestinians weren’t responsible for their plight, but still stood ready to help until invaded and subjugated harshly by the invaders.
Should Venezuelans be allowed to take over Pennsylvania because they want out of Venezuela for good reason? Or Chinese? Or any African? Or Central American? Certainly Haitians have it bad enough to make it ok to take a state for themselves! Yes, Europe was dangerous…for anyone. That’s not an excuse to invade, murder another person and steal their land and subjugate their descendants for decades, but that’s what they did…and what you’re attempting to excuse.

Well, that explains it then. You think because the Jews had it worse once, it excuses being the Nazis today. I do not, I believe it gives them more reason to never be anything like the Nazis, not emulate them. The Palestinian plight is worse than many Jews in Europe besides Poland or Germany. They’re already in the ghetto, not free to travel and maybe get out. They’re already oppressed, subjugated, starved, dehydrated, often without power or communications, and 100% under the thumb and control of their oppressors. Sounds pretty shitty to me. Your family murdered at a whim with no repercussions sounds pretty bad. Your ancestral home taken by force and family shot for existing sounds fairly bad. I’m not sure how you think it’s OK because someone else maybe had it worse once.

When they “arrived in Palestine”, it was as an illegal unwanted invasion intent on taking over and expelling or eradicating the native population. They deserved violence 100%. The population was doing more than their share accepting refugees, then for their humanity was invaded and dehumanized in their own country. No excuse can make that acceptable unless it had happened in Germany post war.

Yes, Jews were the bad guys, invading a land they had and have no right to. You got it! They didn’t even have a right to refugee status there, it was a gift, they absolutely had no right to take control and possession by force, nor to become the inhuman monsters they were fleeing in Northern Europe.

Absolutely not. What even was his plan, I ask you. It wasn’t securing the borders.

I support the plan to FUND border parol and immigration courts to not only secure the border but repair the immigration process that does not function today. With a functioning immigration process, most would use it, making stopping illegal entry much easier.

I support refugee camps in the East Texas desert, not open release before processing.

I absolutely do not support actual open borders, nor allowing other countries to just send plane and train and boatloads of unvetted people in in numbers that would make natives the minority in quick fashion, nor do I support returning Texas (including Oklahoma, Kansas, Colorado, Wyoming, and New Mexico) to the Mexicans even though they are fleeing near the same level of fear, oppression and death from narco gangs and have some hereditary claims (which European Jews did not, they were mostly not Semitic genetically). I disagree the circumstances were much more desperate in the 30’s outside of Germany, and I disagree that the choices are Trumpism or no-border free-for-alls.

A reasoned and relatively factual position. Congratulations, but….
In my and many expert’s opinions the deadly indiscriminate pressure is exactly what pushes desperate and grieving innocent civilian Palestinians into Hamas’s arms. You would create two terrorists for every one caught with the inhumane treatment of the civilian population…and commit a serious war crime in the process.

Israel should abandon all expansionist settlements from the last 30 years and free the Palestinian citizens from the oppressive genocidal apartheid they’ve forced on the population for decades. That would end the conflict tomorrow, instead Israel has telegraphed its intent to take over Gaza militarily and occupy it again…and America stands by their side, but not all Americans.

If America had spent 10% of what we spend supplying Israel with weapons they use on civilians instead on building infrastructure, schools, hospitals, roads in Gaza, the Palestinians would not rightly see us as racist enemies, and might have the resources and inclination to oust Hamas. But we don’t.

Palestine gets no aid. You can’t withhold something that never existed. The reason Hamas gets any support is they do supply Gaza with food and medicine while Israel and America just embargo entire populations because a terrorist group lives in the country. Think if the world did the same, bombing cities flat and starving America because the Boogaloo Boys live in America.

Hamas is not Palestine, they’re the warlord gang that took over from the intentionally weakened Palestinian parliament and the only group supporting Palestinian civilians (while also using them as shields and cannon fodder).

Hamas fucked around, but Israel is making innocent Palestinian civilians “find out”. That’s a serious war crime that should put every Israeli soldier in prison, and get Netanyahu executed.

Er mer gerd….FOX (and I’m certain other righty propaganda outlets) is now complaining about hearing about Hunter Biden all the time! Last month FOX mentioned Hunter Biden 1300 times, more almost twice an hour 24/7….but GAWD DAMNIT WHY WON’T THOSE DAMN LIBTARDS STOP SHOVING HUNTER BIDEN IN YOUR FACE!?

He’s constantly going on TV giving speeches…oh wait, that’s Don Jr, ok, he’s always posting coked out videos attacking his fathers enemies….oh wait, that’s Don Jr…we’ll, he’s intricately involved in his father’s administration creating disastrous policies and agreements while being unbelievably high on coke….oh wait, that’s Don Jr.. I wonder, besides right wing propaganda, how many times has Hunter been in the news? Once? Twice in 3 years? 🤦‍♂️

You ijits are just too fucking hilariously clueless. So pissed at yourself for being utter morons completely devoid of rational thought processes or factual information, but unwilling to admit it because that might be rational. 😂😂😂😂😂

Trump is going to be your nominee, that’s a given, he took over the party, but it bears noting he is not attracting new voters, not one. He’s playing HARD to his base, but not one bit to centrists, undecided voters, and especially not to Trump voters that switched to Biden. Can you think of a single person who is pro Trump today that wasn’t pro-Trump on Jan 6? He has the second hurdle of Covid, because MAGgots were infected and died at a 75% higher rate than democrats in the same areas, so hundreds of thousands more Trump voters simply don’t exist now or are disabled…directly because of Trump policies. He’s only lost supporters since his failed coup too, and all those RINOS (by which I mean actual republicans that hate Trump’s narcissistic fascism, hatred, division, and stupidity) aren’t voting for Trump. This all assumes he’s not in prison by election time…it’s clear avoiding prison is the only reason he’s running.

MAGA has turned out to be a comedy troupe, like the keystone cops but without the “trying to do the right thing” part. Keep it up, it’s incredibly gratifying watching the fascist MAGgot party crumble under the oppressive weight of their own hatred and stupidity. The massively unpopular 6 week national abortion ban promise from all your candidates for president guarantee you a loss, but you’re too dumb to see it. Loving those MAGA tears, so yummy!

Yah... wake up. But not Woke right? Because being aware of racial/social injustices is bad or something... oh wait, that's the definition that most people think of while the nutjobs think it means "OPPRESSING WHITE PEOPLE" or some shit.

Makes sense, but growing up in Houston I liked it hot no matter what I was doing, even in school. Now that I’ve been in far N. California for 25+ years I’m ruined and 95 is oppressive even on the river. NorCal made me soft…our summers are usually 75-80 highs.

That's some outdated BLASPHEMY! The current (well, more like since the late 50~early'60s) is "Thoughts and Prayers and gimme gimme gimme! My rights aren't your rights, you CP heathens!"

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Oh, and I'm a Christian. Just the left-leaning, corporatized mega-church hating, cult-busting, prosperity-gospel rejecting, only care for Jesus'-deed-as-example kind of follower. Not the wield-Jesus-as-an-oppression-stick, "I'm an Evangelical, I have ALL the Rights!"-kind of proud & loud, shameless hypocrite (at least try as damn hard not to, I do have weaknesses) that we unfortunately see waaaaay too much in American power circles.

I'm a Canadian, and I'm super glad here in the Great White North (not so much anymore...), separation of church & state is strong. I think I'm probably not a "Christian" by most American's standard...

My rule of thumb for politicians is dead simple. Those that bring out their Christianity all the time NEVER gets my vote. It simply means they have no deeds, policies, visions to speak of and most likely is using God as a shield to hide their misdeeds and inactions.

believe the idea is that all of us do or don't engage in things that we don't necessarily enjoy (or enjoy). either for legality or decency or the stir, it causes...

- breastfeeding
- pistol wearing in town
- hats at weddings/funerals/churches
- shutting off cells at the same and more
- wheels on busy sidewalks
- not heckling the priest's sermon ("YOU SUCK FATHER!")*

some of these are up to the person, some not as bad as others, but common sense SHOULD guide sane people.

'tho if COVID becomes a public health crisis (ala Black Death-esque) they'll find where their freedom meets real oppression (Thyphoid Mary on a large scale).

https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/publications/youraba/2020/youraba-april-2020/law-guides-legal-approach-to-pandemic/

personally, the idea that I could end up killing someone quickly replaced my health concerns. if found someone died because wasn't wearing a mask - would kill me.

so, in short, hope any/or all of these blunts find themselves in a situation where their car won't start. and no one will help them 'til them mask up.

"just need a part!"
"not until you observe our policy of public health! here's a mask...and if you'd put on shoes and a shirt..."

bet they'd do it for their f'n car. but for little bobby or old man Thorney?

...hope a camel w/a huge lip blister kisses them straight on the mouth.

reminds me of a song...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFRDimvVimw

testify.



* Bobcat gag

...and why is that necessary? are Democrats supposed to defend anything any party member does? right or wrong? it's too weird - acting as if this is some 'reality show'?

if anything, there is little connection between what americans, and what the Rs & Ds, wanted or signed up for.

it's a paradox that in the US we have wanted better systems for education, health, or elections that reflexed our true needs...and the government thought they could do it there...while we are STILL waiting to get it here?!!

dude, the truth is what matters. maybe alternative reality is your gig, but some of us rather deal in the IS and not blind faith.

If...and that is a huge 'if'...you want some real light on the subject...try this;

https://www.yahoo.com/news/served-afghanistan-us-marine-twice-100000389.html


we were there to win hearts and minds, and we had a Republican administration to leave that charge?

see the example of a member of t͟h͟a͟t͟ glee and chess club above ˣ

signed up for rubbing out Bin Laden [and his pals], and after he was 'sleeping w/the fishes', our attention should have turned to the problems at home.

EX: again, see the comments above ˣ

didn't jump on the bandwagon for 'nation building' - especially when our nation is/was in need of repair at all most every level imaginable.

EX: like education...to repeat, referred to the example of the commentator above ˣ

Finally, to quote the author of the article, "What happened last week was inevitable, and anyone saying differently is still lying to you."


[To the others, can anyone explain the 'beijing biden' thing? is it one of those off-right things? like covid not being dangerous? or masks are oppression? would ask him to explain but that's too much like asking a heavy one-legged gal to a slow dance.]


BTW: give some odds on the '22 and '24 races!

* crickets riding tumbleweeds *


ˣᵀᵃⁿᵍˡᵉᵈ ᵀʷᶦˢᵗᵉᵈ ᵃⁿᵈ ᵀᵒʳⁿ ᵀʰᵒʳⁿˢ

Problem is, most foreign government's action (military, economic wars & sanctions) primarily affect the PEOPLE negatively, not the targetted government. All government - oppressive or otherwise - entities dig-in and extert even more control in the face of challenges to its power. Consequences (to the people) be damned. It's been that way for millenia.

Violence, class/race oppression, history suppression/revision and delusional self-aggrandizing American exceptionalism are all par for the course in US teens lit, but sex? Hell no!

Europeans are getting a good chuckle at this.

But isn't that's classic American education? With a conservative SCOTUS, the American education system gonna get even worse.

RTJ | Walking In The Snow lyrics...

Get a dose a dirty code to go, been cold since Co-Flow
I got wire or two unlodgin', I'll set a fire down below
I'll hang it up when you say, "Sorry, I didn't know"
Prolly got a year or ten to go so let's go
I don't really know how to go slow
Just got done walkin' in the snow
Goddamn, that motherfucker's cold (Ayy)
You in the wrong mode, you open and closin' your hole, it's a no go
This whole world's a shit moat, filled to the brim like GitMo
When you think it don't get mo' low it limbo 'til the sticks on flo'
All oppression's born of lies, I don't make the rules, I'm just one guy
All due respect, if getting spit on's how respect is now defined
Hungry for truth but you got screwed and drank the Kool-Aid, there's a line
It end directly at the edge of a mass grave, that's their design
Funny fact about a cage, they're never built for just one group
So when that cage is done with them and you're still poor, it come for you
The newest lowest on the totem, well golly gee, you have been used
You helped to fuel the death machine that down the line will kill you too (Oops)
Pseudo-Christians, y'all indifferent
Kids in prisons ain't a sin? Shit
If even one scrap a what Jesus taught connected, you'd feel different
What a disingenuous way to piss away existence, I don't get it
I'd say you lost your goddamn minds if y'all possessed one to begin with

Just got done walkin' in the snow
Goddamn, that motherfucker cold
Just got done walkin' in the snow
Goddamn, that motherfucker cold
Just got done walkin' in the snow
Goddamn, that motherfucker cold
Just got done walkin' in the snow
Goddamn, that motherfucker cold (Cold, cold)

Yeah, ho, Gangsta Boo, Run the Jewels
We back on our shit, and it's cold as fuck

The way I see it you're probably freest from the ages one to four
Around the age of five you're shipped away for your body to be stored
They promise education, but really they give you tests and scores
And they predictin' prison population by who scoring the lowest
And usually the lowest scores the poorest and they look like me
And every day on evening news they feed you fear for free
And you so numb you watch the cops choke out a man like me
And 'til my voice goes from a shriek to whisper, "I can't breathe"
And you sit there in the house on couch and watch it on TV
The most you give's a Twitter rant and call it a tragedy
But truly the travesty, you've been robbed of your empathy
Replaced it with apathy, I wish I could magically
Fast forward the future so then you can face it
And see how fucked up it'll be
I promise I'm honest, they coming for you
The day after they comin' for me
I'm readin' Chomsky, I read Bukowski
I'm layin' low for a week
I said somethin' on behalf of my people
And I popped up in Wikileaks
Thank God that I'm covered, the devil is smothered
And you know the evil don't sleep
Dick Gregory told me a couple of secrets before he laid down in his grave
All of us serve the same masters, all of us nothin' but slaves
Never forget in the story of Jesus, the hero was killed by the state

Just got done walkin' in the snow
Goddamn, that motherfucker cold
Just got done walkin' in the snow
Goddamn, that motherfucker cold
Just got done walkin' in the snow
Goddamn, that motherfucker cold
Just got done walkin' in the snow
Goddamn, that motherfucker cold (Cold, cold)

Who really wanna run it with the Jewel Runners?
Go hellfire hot in a new sauna
It's a cold winter baby and a cruel summer
I suicide bomb in the blue Hummer
And emerge out the side, not a bruise on 'em
Bad news come in two son, do somethin'
Treat beats like a wet thigh, chew on 'em
Got a stroke row crew on 'em, move on 'em
We be the heroes, the breakers of chains and the busters of locks (Locks, locks)
You be them suckers supportin' them snitches that talk to the cops
This the Illmatic of turning your face into fucker foie gras
I'm not so sure opportunities knocking, it's prolly the law
Word to the old school tape decks
I get Radio Raheem respect
My Nike pendant sacred, similar to the Ghostface bracelet
Fire in the hole, oh no joke
Prolly go broke just off smoke
Fuck are we gonna do, not smoke?
Get a job, play the role, be adults?
Nah, I'ma do me, arigato

First of all, they cheated (Uh-huh)
'Cause if one of them black and the other one white (Uh-huh)
So if you don't like 'em, you automatically racist (Ah, oh, well)