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Kamikazi Drone Hits Kamikazi Drone Factory 1200 km In Russia

Reefie says...

I've seen some additional reports now with verified details from the BBC and Reuters - and a proper landscape view of the impact - none of that side panel blurring business! Both news outlets confirm what you've said, converted light aircraft, and they also state that Ukraine forces have taken responsibility for the attack. I'm still amused that they rigged it for remote control and left the landing gear down the whole way!

newtboy said:

I understand the confusion, but as I understand it this “drone” was a single engine plane (172?) modified for use as a drone. I don’t know what kind of drone hit the refinery at the same time, but since it was in the same town 1200 km from Ukraine it’s likely they used the same civilian aircraft “drone” for that simultaneous attack.
The news about the battlefield drone advancement in the same clip did confuse the details about this extremely long range drone attack deep in Russia.

bobknight33 (Member Profile)

newtboy says...

Uh oh….don is going to have to explain why he’s illegally threatening the president with death, a violation of his bail in every trial he’s facing and a slap in the face to his own security detail, and why he’s continuing to threaten the judges daughter despite the updated gag order on Monday specifically precluding him from attacking family members.
It better be a good explanation or it could be prison time or at a minimum a total gag order, no statements at all, no “truths”, and none by his staff.

BTW - despite maga “lawyers” claiming it is, gag orders are NOT violations of first amendment rights, they are a voluntary but binding agreement a defendant makes as a condition of pre trial release, something they have no right to.

Bonus - with abortion rights on the ballot in Florida and 70% in favor of abortion rights, it becomes a swing state likely to turn blue. All democrats have to do is remind the public how many rights the right is stripping from them and who is fighting to preserve them. 😂
And Arizona just put Abortion rights on the ballot too, handing most of Arizona to Democrats.

Second bonus- Another maga racist white nationalist and anti semite, Gregg Blevins, is being recalled in Oklahoma.

bobknight33 (Member Profile)

newtboy says...

Hilarious.
I usually provide legitimate verifiable sources, which you always discount for no reason besides they aren’t MAGA, knowing full well MAGA sources don’t report things that look bad for MAGA…duh. What’s the point? You only accept made up stories that fit your ridiculous preconceptions.
Maybe learn to write and type it in google yourself you idiotic fucktard. This is reported literally everywhere news is reported, you really have to shove your head deep into your small intestine to avoid it.

Since you are either incapable or afraid to investigate yourself, here. You lazy idiot.
https://www.msnbc.com/the-reidout/reidout-blog/kari-lake-arizona-defamation-lawsuit-rcna145375
https://apnews.com/article/kari-lake-stephen-richer-defamation-lawsuit-1feafd7656310f0dc1f8d91e7e376d00
https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/arizona/2024/03/28/judge-kari-lake-lost-rights-to-litigate-richer-defamation-suit/73130262007/

Or just type Kari Lake into YouTube and search just the last week, it’s all about her admission.

Even Lake herself made a press release giving ridiculous nonsensical excuses for admitting her intentional malicious guilt (I won’t give the ridiculous case credibility by participating in it, so I’m just admitting my guilt and asking to be fined…WHAT!?) but admitting it none the less.

Now go ahead and discard the facts as non MAGA sources and continue to live in the dark instead of looking for yourself.

bobknight33 said:

Funny you never provide direct source only blithering commentary

bobknight33 (Member Profile)

newtboy says...

What a non rebuttal. I assume you had none.

No surprise you find selling the country to Putin funny.
No shock you think intentionally dividing the country for Russia’s benefit is funny.
Not one bit out of character that you find MAGA being the party of racism and all racists funny.

bobknight33 said:

Funny

Michael Cohen to Trump donors: 'It's time to wake up, stupid

newtboy says...

Let’s be clear, bob didn’t lose any credibility, he had absolutely none to lose.

Multiple sources have shown him the facts here, he accepted Don said these things then as usual switched positions and now just denies them and believes convicted con man Don over any proof. He’s deep in the cult, way past reprogramming. It’s ok, he’s a totally lost cause. Don’t be surprised if he kills himself or someone else when Donny loses and goes to prison. He will be totally lost.

No one here believes a letter that dumb ignorant liar has to say. He’s proven himself a consummate ignorant liar time and time and time again. He cannot ever admit any mistakes, and cannot post without lying. No amount of proof can ever convince him, but any ridiculous lie he likes becomes a fact in his empty head.

Bob is not a serious person, he’s a blatant untrustworthy anti American troll. His only usefulness is he points out the newest idiotic lies MAGA is telling itself, offering a chance to debunk their nonsense quickly before it spreads to reasonable but ignorant people. If not for that singular use, he would have been banned long ago.

mram said:

You sir, really have blinders on.

I linked his direct Truth Social posts (one is now deleted).

I linked a ton of substantiating sites referencing exactly those posts, despite one of them now being deleted, to validate they did both exist. Every news org cites them in exactly the same language, as if, you know, to validate that "sky is still blue".

If you want to deny it wasn't actually said, be my guest, but you just lost a ton of credibility in my book (and probably anyone else reading this too).

Supreme Court Ethics: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver

newtboy says...

I wonder if the recent scrutiny of the tens of millions taken by these judges from plaintiffs and defendants in their own courts and the resulting outrage will make him consider this offer, knowing real ethics LAWS are coming as soon as Democrats retake the house and his fire-hose of unreported “gifts” is likely to dry up under new laws with teeth, this may be his only shot at continuing the lavish lifestyle he and the other “conservative” “justices” all enjoy thanks to their billionaire donors who buy decisions.

Note- there has yet to be a single credible accusation of taking “unreported gifts” (aka bribes) against any of the 3 “liberal” justices. No false equivalency to make here @bobknight33, none. The best the muck rakers can come up with is Geinsberg once accepted a trip she reported on her disclosures from someone who had PREVIOUSLY YEARS EARLIER had a case heard. I’m sure you will say that’s the exact same crime as taking millions from people with cases pending before your court and not reporting a dime of it or recusing yourself.

newtboy (Member Profile)

newtboy says...

Yes, it was a foregone conclusion….because he was undeniably guilty.
Yes, he was guilty before the trial started, and he was legally found to be found guilty after discovery, which is after the trial started. The uncontested evidence proved his guilt beyond any doubt, reasonable, shadow, or sliver…none.
The finding of reality came last year when he couldn’t provide any evidence to contradict the fraudulent contradictory filings he had made.
This trial was only about disgorgement of the ill gotten gains he made through that fraud.
I watched much of it, it absolutely wasn’t a railroad job, his team was given more leeway than any defense team in recent history, every opportunity to put on a defense, they had none, and were clueless about court procedures which could have led to sanctions and contempt charges, and would have for any other defendant.

It was a near hit job, railroaded by his own lawyer’s complete incompetence, and that’s going to end his appeal too, she can’t appeal anything not brought up at the first trial (and SURPRISE! Ineffective council is not a cause for appeal in civil courts…D’OH!). This means Trump has nothing to appeal, and would have to put up all the $350 million in cash in what amounts to escrow before he can even file one. He doesn’t have it, so can’t even try to appeal. I won’t be surprised if he can’t come up with the $89 million to appeal the Carrol decisions. 😂

This WAS total BS, Ivanka shouldn’t have gotten the sweetheart deal of waiting to prosecute until after Trump left office and been let off, she absolutely was part of the Trump Organization Fraud for years, and benefited from the frauds personally to the tune of tens of millions. They also should all see prison, they stole over $350 million through fraud, people lost everything, people died…this gimme is total BS, we agree.

34 felony counts trial coming next month! Can’t wait! Lemme guess, you don’t think he lied about paying off a porn star he had sex with by pretending it was a business expense, and if he did who cares…right? Just because that’s a number of serious felonies, who cares? Right? 😂

bobknight33 said:

This was a forgone conclusion.
Trump was guilty before the trial started, per DA and Judge. This was not a finding of reality only to punish Trump. This trial was only decide punishment in a dollar amount.
I doubt anyone here watched the trial -- I did -- I was a railroad job. Trump will appeal and will win. This was total BS

President Biden Delivers Remarks

newtboy says...

Yes, that kind of clearance, Mr Know Nothing. He had clearance to have every document in his personal possession when he received them, unlike Trump who illegally and secretly stole them from secured facilities. His mistake was trusting his staff to properly forward them to the archives when they packed his senate, and later VP offices.

No, ex senators and ex presidents both don’t have clearance to KEEP classified documents, correct. Trump did not ever have clearance to remove nuclear secrets and other highly classified material from a SCIF, not as president and not after, and it endangers the nation that he did so. It requires written declassification by the DOE, the president cannot declassify nuclear secrets under any circumstances.

The DOJ report indicated Biden did not know his staff had stored a few (6) unlabeled low level classified documents at his secure locked think tank office and personal handwritten notes at his guarded and locked home library (namely a few daily briefs on Afghanistan and some handwritten notes he had made, nothing at all designated top secret), indicated he himself (or attorneys at his instruction) looked for them and immediately reported finding them to the FBI, and allowed them to search that and other properties without requiring a warrant.
The DOJ report also indicated Trump DID know he was illegally taking and retaining highest sensitivity most stringently classified top secret documents by the truckload, not just a small part of one box, refused to return them when asked by the archives, lied about having any, required a warrant for a search, actively hid them when searched, lied again about having MORE, lied about showing them to multiple other parties including foreign agents but was caught red handed on tape, claimed personal ownership (of nuclear secrets), kept them unsecured in public areas, tried to destroy video evidence, claimed they were planted, obstructed Justice multiple times…
…must I go on for you to see the difference, or comprehend why one faces no charge and the other treason?
I’m certain the answer is yes, you haven’t heard enough to admit the situations are completely different despite the fact that one is staff improperly packing up his office when he left it, the other one individual intentionally stealing hundreds of state secrets for personal gain at the nation’s expense…you can never hear enough evidence to admit that.

Is Maddow still on? Sorry Charlie, like I’ve told you a hundred times but you can never recall, I’ve never watched CNN beyond short YouTube clips, not before they went right wing certainly not since. In fact, I think it’s likely that you watch more CNN than I do, you sure like to post and quote them now. If she’s still on and is saying the same things I’m not surprised, she was a smart wonky cookie last I saw.
It’s hilarious when you don’t know my sources, because when you can’t try to impugn the source over nonsense you have no argument at all, just rambling nonsensical insanity spewed from your mouth like explosive diarrhea.

Me thinks you have too little brain in the brain.

😂 Talk about projection! What a confession. 😂

Everything Trump said in that idiotic speech was a lie about Biden and an admission of what he himself did.
I won’t insult your minimal intelligence by pretending you actually believe the delusional ramblings you just posted, they would make a good case for insanity if he believed it, but we all know he doesn’t.
Every word of that insanity was a total fabrication of a delusional mind.

The presidential records act absolutely doesn’t give him the right to take top secret classified documents home when he leaves office, or retain them, or lie under oath about having them, or defy warrants for them, or show them to otherS, NONE OF THAT IS LEGAL UNDER THE PRESIDENTIAL RECORDS ACT.
Trump obstructed Justice at every possible turn, destroying evidence hiding documents, he still has an unsearched secret room in his bedroom not disclosed when the FBI searched, so likely has MORE stolen documents still. Biden cooperated more than fully with the investigation, which even the political hack Trump appointed special prosecutor admitted.
…and Biden had a grand total of 20 documents or notes designated “classified”, none top secret…Trump had over 325 well marked classified FILES containing multiple classified documents each including I think a dozen or more of the highest most secret files the government has, files never supposed to leave a SCIF and not declassifiable by the president under any circumstances.
Not one word he said was true, and you know it, fool.
That speech if not intentional lies is proof Trumpist Alzheimer’s has progressed to the point of total delusion.

PS- Still waiting.

bobknight33 said:

Not that kind of clearance.
Senators don't have clearance to take and keep classified documents, as the DOJ report indicated.

Me thinks you have too much Rachel Maddow on the brain.

President Biden Delivers Remarks

newtboy says...

Biden had full clearance when his staffers stored documents he was allowed to have that were not labeled classified but turned out to be. None were near the level of classification of the nuclear secrets Trump intentionally stole, none were even clearly labeled classified. He had no knowledge of them being stored there, and thought they were in the national archives, still he did a search himself and discovered them and immediately turned them in, allowing the fib to search for more without warrants.
As POTUS Biden can pardon himself for past mistakes anyway. 😂 He could also pardon Hunter if he wished.

Senators can have security clearance too, dummy…especially if on committees like the foreign relations committee. Derp.
There is no indication that he ever procured documents he didn’t have the clearance to handle.

Trump wasn’t potus so had no remaining clearance or right when he intentionally stole thousands of well labeled highly classified highly sensitive docs on his way out of the whitehouse, and at no time was he allowed to possess them legally outside a SCIF. He was notified by the national archives and he lied about taking them, refused to return them, then lied about having returned them. He knowingly retained them and kept them in unlocked public areas where the public had unfettered access to them proven by the multiple photographs guests took of them. He actively hid them repeatedly when notified of an upcoming search the fbi had to get a warrant for because he refused to let them search for missing documents they knew he had without one. He then tried to erase and destroy the security tapes that prove he did everything I just accused him of, he even ordered a pool be pumped into the room housing the security servers in an effort to destroy evidence, but was so incompetent that they were easily recovered.

Your bulb burnt out 9 years ago when a racist tv idiot and convicted con man announced his candidacy and you said to yourself “that’s my ride or die for life, I just love that man so much it hurts”…but it was just a 5 watt black light bulb to start with….very dim.

bobknight33 said:

As a POTUS Trump is allowed to have classified docs.

Senators ( Biden) are not allowed.

The bulb in this man is dim and fading.

bobknight33 (Member Profile)

newtboy says...

Uh oh….the Supreme Court ruled that Texas illegally stringing up razor wire in the Rio Grande to try to create its own border policy, foreign policy, covid policy, and immigration policy was definitely illegal, not a states rights policy. None of those are states business.

Because Abbot’s blatantly illegal policy led to multiple deaths, don’t be surprised if he gets charged with murder….he should, he is an murderer four times over, 3 of them children, and any Texas police officer that went along with his blatantly illegal order is an accomplice.

PS- still waiting. 😂



PPS- Why do you think it might be that Trump campaign events are now being held in high school auditoriums with 700 seat maximum capacity (one large section of which was reserved for press and empty) and why are they emptying out during his speeches?
Is it so they can go on cable news and claim they sold out the venue (by buying the unsold seats themselves) and have honest people say they couldn’t get in?
Are they leaving because the cognitive decline (and the stench) is impossible to ignore in person…especially in small venues? 😂

Trump Supporter CHANGES MIND on Biden in 60sec

bobknight33 says...

The kid is asking the wrong question.

The question is Why is Russia invading Ukraine.

The answer is NATO creeping into buffer countries that was agreed on after the fall of Russia.

NATO has not stopped expanding since the fall of the Soviet Union, growing from 17 countries in 1990 to 30 today, several of which were once part of the Soviet-led Warsaw pact.


Finally Ukraine is not a NATO country----------- This is none of our business.


Biden failed Policies have done nothing but keeping pushing for war --

Ukraine is a lost war.

FJB

You leftest said if Trump was POTUS - He would bring us into war--- Never happened.
MEGA 2024 to end wars.

Judge Pronounced Trump Guilty Before Trial Began!

bobknight33 says...

But the facts are disputed , which mitigates the ability of the judge to make such decision. This was presented during the 11 weeks of the prosecution side of this hearing.



It only work is such cases as for example 5 people see me run over and kill someone. That is not is dispute.
What is or could be to mitigate my conviction is to show just cause -- IE being robed at gunpoint or such.


This "trial" is about property value. This cant be fraud in any way. Trump places a value and banks do the same and an agreement is made. No bank or lender indicated fraud -- Every bank got paid back, with interest and some made other deals on other projects.

This is a BS show trial. prejudged before it even started.

Only the ignorant are blinded.

All you statement below are bullshit -- none of that in this hearing. Every proposal for loans clearly had disclaimers for banks to do their own due diligence in their evaluation. Some thought higher some though lower-- but all made loans and got paid back.


Sadly stupid dicks with big egos, like you push false information.

I look for actual facts like presented -- Her own words - Trump Guilty before the trial began-- Thats BS

newtboy said:

Ok Bob. I explained summary judgement and prima facie cases in small easy to understand words.
You still post this unmitigated stupidity as if you don’t understand.
Are you honestly so dumb, so incapable of learning the simplest of legal doctrines, that when undisputed evidence proves the case during discovery no trial is needed.
The business records from the Trump organization are incontrovertible, for taxes he listed one value, for collateral he listed another value that was 3-10000 times the assessed value.
Maralago is the prime example, because he went to court disputing the $18 million evaluation for taxes AS TOO HIGH! Now he claims he was committing massive tax fraud because it’s really worth $1.8 BILLION. That is known as banking fraud, tax fraud, wire fraud, and business fraud. He cannot dispute those facts, so he was found guilty before a trial started, as usual in the American justice system.
Also, in a civil trial you only need to prove it’s more likely than not, not prove beyond doubt the accusations are true…but they have proven beyond any doubt that the accusations are true in discovery…when the admissibility of evidence is argued BEFORE a trial starts.
Just like Giuliani who didn’t dispute the slander before trial so was found guilty without trial, he couldn’t dispute the evidence without committing perjury so he didn’t take the stand to defend himself at all…just what he said guilty people do. 😂

Either you know this and are just lying like an idiot because you are frustrated at being such a constant loser or you are actually just to stupid to understand that when you’re caught red handed with your hand in the cookie jar and your dick in the little boy, you’re caught and you’re guilty.

You just love to look like a braying moron, don’t you? Congratulations traitor, you do.

"Hunter Biden Spent $872K on Hookers" - Facing 9 Indictment

newtboy says...

The video itself, and reality debunk it.
The title is a pure lie.
He did not even allegedly spend anywhere near $872k on hookers.
Clear enough?

You clearly want to conflate correcting any baseless lie you tell about Hunter and Joe with claiming Hunter is an absolutely innocent target, but that’s simply false. Hunter did many criminal things, that’s clear, none of which would normally be elevated to prosecution and certainly wouldn’t warrant jail, that’s also clear. He’s no roll model, but he doesn’t claim to be one. His crimes are similar to those of Trump except in scale, Trump has been found guilty of up to $250 million in tax evasion in NY alone while spending hundreds of millions on “hookers” if all women you pay for sex are hookers (hookers and luxury hotels, rental property, real estate, gifts for girlfriends and wives, lawyers, luxury vehicles, clothing, food, etc)

Considering your rapist, publicly pedophilic, proudly incestuous, “best friend of Epstein”, state secret stealing and selling, convicted fraud, tax cheating, Sudafed addicted cult leader, I don’t think you really want to get into who’s a degenerate and to what extent.

I think it’s clear that Hunter didn’t handle his brother’s death well and went on a multi year binge, with all the related bad decisions that come with that. I think its also exceedingly clear he never did anything that intentionally hurt others or put them in untenable positions, he only hurt himself (and by extension his family).
I think it’s also clear that Hunter didn’t have the ability to peddle any influence, especially when his father wasn’t in office or even a candidate during the time in question, but it’s also abundantly clear the persecution is purely politically motivated as an attempt to paint the father with an exaggeration of the son’s crimes.

What is important to recognize is Hunter is not running for any public office, especially not the highest on earth, he’s a private citizen. Trump wants to be dictator for life then leave the country to his little boys….he needs to now that his fraudulent financial empire is crumbling to dust. Trump made hundreds of millions defrauding others, intentionally hurting others, swindling others, etc.

Please take an English refresher course. It’s painful.

bobknight33 said:

All know you a TOOL.

Debunk this

What evidence do you have that debunks this?

Please enlighten your fellow Sifters?

The IRS is after his ass.

Don't think Hunter is a sex, drug degenerate?


What evidence do you have that will disprove the IRS case?

Put up or shut up.

Palestinian UN Ambassador At UN

newtboy says...

“ It’s your insistence that Jewish people, and the existence of Israel, have always fundamentally been invaders that I was objecting to as it is so intensely at odds with factual history.”
No…it is at odds with your position and is not what I said.
It is factual history that fighting age European Jews came armed and forcibly displaced the natives after being offered sanctuary for their most needy. It is not factual that I claimed it was ever thus. That is clearly not what I said, I said for 10+- years they were getting along as refugees, then started coming in HUGE numbers illegally and taking over.

Those are facts.

I also mentioned a native Jewish population that were not refugees or invaders. Some of them supported the invading Zionists, some didn’t. I’ve never heard of one who opposed them.

“ You gave a brief nod on not being a scholar of Palestinian history, but then proceed to just count all Jewish refugees as good as Zionist aggressors from day 1(or close enough), and the local Arab population as nothing but pure, kind caring victims of these invaders.”

Not even close to true, I said many stood behind the Zionists when they started coming en masse, and didn’t say but seemingly few to none of the native Jews opposed them. I also was clear that at the beginning the refugees acted like refugees, not invaders….I mistakenly gave them more time being grateful than you say they were, according to you Palestinians position is they began the invasion in the 20’s….and theirs is the opinion I care about. I never claimed ALL Arabs were welcoming, but the “nation” as a whole (despite being not self ruling at the time) welcomed a huge number of refugees considering their own population. Way more than elsewhere.

Edit: Britain, who facilitated this invasion, only took in 80000 European Jews in the decade before and during the war, and they were only given transit visas to stay temporarily until they found other accommodations. All of England took in fewer Jewish refugees in all pre war history than Palestine did….England took in 80000, most on temporary visas, Palestine took in 60000 permanently in 1935 alone, and 130000 in 33-36.
Pre-immigration Palestine had about 700000 people. In 1944 European Jews ignored the 1500 visa limit per year and came by the hundred of thousands per year after already completely overwhelming the native population.
Palestine was forcibly invaded by a foreign population exponentially bigger than the native population while Britain kept them too weak to oppose it physically.
That’s an invasion…not on day 1. 🤦‍♂️

“ without being able to writeoff Israel as invaders from day 1, nuance enters the calculus and suddenly the conflict is flooded with shades of grey ”

Again, I said day 3, not day 1, and went on to say that meant 10 years later. Get off your high horse and READ buddy.

I guess I’ll stop here. If you aren’t going to read what I wrote and insist on arguing red herrings you made up yourself, you can do that alone.

Nothing you’ve said changes or excuses the fact that masses of armed violent invaders came to take the land from the natives by force and were successful. The exact date this happened is not only y highly subjective, it’s completely besides the point.
Nothing you’ve said changes or excuses the inhuman treatment they’ve subjected the innocent native civilian population to for 70 years…but you’ve tried.
Nothing you’ve said changes or excuses the intentional targeting of trapped civilians by the military….serious war crimes Israel commits daily.
Nothing you’ve said even hints that you consider Palestinians worthy of consideration themselves, possibly not even human status, definitely not peaceful existence.

Bye

Palestinian UN Ambassador At UN

newtboy says...

Edit: I misunderstood …. When you flee to somewhere you aren’t welcome, you invaded. That’s not characterization, it’s definition. If my home isn’t safe so I force my way into yours, I invaded your home…even if my friend down the street said it was ok.
It’s not a legitimate motive to invade a foreign country and murder, subjugate, and ghettoize its inhabitants because you aren’t safe where you live. There is no legitimate motive for those actions.

I think you take great liberty deciding the “Arab narrative”. That may be the Hamas narrative, it’s not the Palestinian’s history, and I think few claim it is. At first they were and acted like refugees, welcomed by Arab natives, some of which were Jews themselves, then shortly after began exponentially increasing immigration to overpower the natives, coming armed. They had no right to take by force food, shelter, and safety from those who had offered it to a much smaller portion of needy Jews…they in fact had an obligation to do the exact opposite and minimize their impact on their TEMPORARY HOSTS, and ensure their benefactors didn’t suffer for their generosity. This was not even a fleeting thought for the invaders.

The violent Zionists were intentionally courted and invited then supported and encouraged by those you say were “getting along”, so your point is misguided.

That native population was displaced by a concerted effort to forcibly immigrate en masse and seize control. The natives eventually balked, but too late and the overwhelming masses of armed violent Jewish invaders took over.

I’m in a camp that doesn’t give a shit about religion, they’re all idiotic nonsense, but believes in law and order, and invading people seizing control by force and dehumanizing the natives is not a thing I’m prepared to gloss over or erase with one sided details. I don’t gloss over my own country’s inhumane origins of genocidal racism against our natives, and I support any measure that returns anything they’ve been stripped of.

I’m also in a camp that doesn’t think it’s ok to murder and rape Peter to pay Paul for Patrick’s bill. The Palestinians bear zero responsibility for Jews treatment in Europe. None.

I’m also in a camp that believes “refugee” means you are a guest until you can return home, not a new citizen with more rights than natives.

The European Jews there are invaders acting terribly unreasonably, they’re very Trumpian in their actions, any slight against them is an excuse to go full bore Hitler against those kids with rocks.

I don’t “just declare invasion”. It was an invasion.
Foreign people came unwanted and illegally into the country and took over by force. That’s called an invasion in English by most definitions, and an invasion it was.
The forceful invaders are ALWAYS the bad guys, the oppressors are ALWAYS the bad guys, the expansionists are ALWAYS the bad guys. That describes all the Israeli people. They are the bad guys, whether they intended to be or not.

bcglorf said:

"Who the fuck cares what the reason they wanted to invadeflee was?"

Characterization matters a little here, no?

"They had a right to refugee status there, not to take control and possession by force"

Which is at the heart of things.

The Arab narrative is that Jews arrived guns loaded and set about pillaging, killing and invading as soon as they had sufficient numbers, while the poor domestic Arab population had only been trying to assist and welcome in the refugees...

Which is ahistorical propaganda.

The reality is that for the most part, the European Jews arriving in Palestine were refugees and acting like refugees. Meaning they mostly just wanted to be able to provide food, shelter and safety for the families, just like everyone else. Most of them tried to set about doing this by legally purchasing land.

Lots of the local Arabs similarly were content to get along.

At that same time though, there were hardcore Zionists among the Jewish arrivals AND there were xenophobic elements willing to use violence within the Arab population too.

The tensions rose as the populations rose, but largely as a result of a large people being displaced, and NOT as the planned invasion you describe. The local Arab population started to band together to refuse to work, trade or sell to Jews. Violence broke out instigated separately on smallish scales by BOTH sides. Escalating violence followed, again back and forth between sides.

I'm in a camp that has a hard time blaming either the domestic Arab population for distress at the huge influx of refugees, nor for the European Jewish people having a low tolerance for discrimination and violence directed there way solely for being Jewish.

I see it as a huge mess, but with two large populations of Jewish and Arab people in Palestine acting not terribly unreasonably under circumstances of extreme pressure.

I think it's lazy and convenient to just declare 'invasion' so that you can simplify it all down to right/wrong and good guy/bad guy....



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