The issue is the wrong guy, a dishonest blowhard trying to cover his own failures, claimed this early on with absolutely zero evidence. It was a clear dodge, his normal MO. Refusing any responsibility for ending the international pandemic response team that would have been able to actually say when and where the outbreak started, and likely be able to keep it relegated to one small area in China. By blaming it on a Chinese lab, actually saying it was intentional, he deflects from his abject failure to protect America from a clear, obvious, incontrovertibly deadly threat on the horizon….or any time after it’s discovery.
Were the Chinese studying Covid, yes, so were we. That’s not an indication of where it came from. There’s no evidence it came from any lab, only supposition at best.

Edit:Even if the guess that it came from a Chinese lab is correct, it doesn’t excuse one second of Trump’s (lack of) response and outright denials for months-years. The origin has nothing to do with the danger level, in fact, if it WERE enhanced/created in a lab as he claimed, that’s more reason to consider it MORE dangerous, not reason to claim it’s just a cold or mild flu and will disappear like magic in a few weeks. Granted, it was fun to see him (only after his trade deal fell apart) blame this deadly virus on the Chinese as an unforgivable deliberate act of germ warfare and accuse them of minimizing the danger and hiding the size and severity of the outbreak and in the same breath claim it’s nothing to worry about, not dangerous, probably not deadly, not worth any action to protect against, and just a minimal annoyance soon to disappear….but also disappointing to see how easily so many Americans glossed over the two faced hypocritical responsibility shirking stance he took.

This guy claims most, nearly all viruses can’t both infect people and be transmitted….what utter nonsense. If that were true, there would have never been epidemics, pandemics, not even outbreaks. Credibility destroyed.

I guess he didn’t hear about swine flu, or bird flu, or flu, or colds, or any transmittable virus. 🤦‍♂️
I guess they haven’t heard new mutations are far less deadly (but more transmittable) than earlier versions, so they are getting less dangerous, contrary to his claim.

Not transmitting well outdoors means it’s not natural?! Bullshit, animals nest together. Many natural viruses require close contact to transmit.

DNA testing proved early on that this is not a man made virus. Is it possible a Chinese lab made a natural virus more dangerous, then a lab mistake released it? Yes, but there’s no evidence that’s the case, even these people who’s livelihood relies on people accepting “the lab hypothesis” (hypothesis=guess) admit it’s all conjecture, there’s no evidence, certainly no proof. It’s not the lab theory because it’s unproven.

Duh.

BTW, this couple are married, anti vaxers, Ivermectin proponents, and were thrown out of Evergreen College, and are now both now discredited and disgraced. Their main source of income is now their anti vax, pro Ivermectin, Covid isn’t dangerous podcasts loved by morons like Joe Rogan, and a source of much of his misinformation that’s getting him removed from his platform.
“Bret Weinstein is one of the foremost purveyors of COVID-19 disinformation out there,” says Dr. David Gorski, a surgical oncologist and professor at Wayne State University who also debunks quack remedies as managing editor at a website called Science-Based Medicine. “Weinstein can be ‘credited’ with playing a large role in popularizing the belief that ivermectin is a miracle cure or preventative for COVID-19, that the vaccines are dangerous, and that the disease itself is not. Why are Rogan and Maher attracted to his messages? Contrarians and conspiracy theorists tend to be attracted to each other.”
https://whyevolutionistrue.com/2021/09/16/bret-weinstein-and-heather-heying-go-unvaccinated-take-ivermectin/

Downvote discredited shills who profit from misinformation. No surprise at all, considering who posted this dishonest propaganda from discredited propagandists.

“This family”?
This isn’t one case, Bob. It’s department policy and has been for a long time.

Agreed, it SHOULD be a big payday for these families… unfortunately that’s at taxpayer, not the police’s pension fund’s, expense….but so far in the years of this practice if the victims got anything it doesn’t seem to have payed enough to get the local government to stop it, or enough to excuse blatant and rampant abusive harassment of law abiding citizens as standard policy, even a revenue generator.

How much is the daily harassment of your children, wife, co workers, family, friends, and business contacts at their work and in their homes late at night for years by dozens of aggressive armed men trespassing and peeping in windows and threatening arrest and continued harassment if they can’t come inside to “talk” at 3 am, all because they know you….without you ever being convicted of a crime….worth?….guaranteed none of the victims of this policy have been paid that much.

It is nice to know you at least say you don’t support DeSantis style policing…so I guess you don’t support his candidacy?

Also interesting you love to dismiss constant violent civil rights violations like this by just claiming the victims will get a huge settlement and that makes it ok (most don’t, police have immunity from all but the absolute worst illegal violations, they don’t even pay to repair the doors they destroy breaking in homes with no warrant or the pets they kill while trespassing and spying on citizens….not even for the innocent people they murder when breaking into their homes at 3 am, and when they are brought to account, they often fight cases for decades first, forcing the victims to sue them over and over and over and over....expensive lawsuits against city hall that most victims can't afford to start)….but when it’s a public health issue where they’re considering forcing you to not become a biological viral lab, stopping you from mutating new viruses to release in America, suddenly your rights to be dangerously idiotic and anti science are sacrosanct, no amount of money could make up for a little ouchie, fuck those other people you kill and disable.
Anti vaxers should not only be denied insurance, but also be forced to pay for treatment of their victims.

Holy shit, you’re a moron….an incredibly dangerous, deadly, irresponsible, pro death moron.

600000+ is more dead Americans than were killed in every war back to the Civil war combined. We should never have gone to war then, even when we were attacked. No enemy has ever come anywhere near 600000. By your logic, Pearl Harbor didn’t matter, protecting Korea didn’t matter, the war on terror didn’t matter, no war mattered…why should another nation or people be punished for under a 2% American death rate?

Islamic terrorists too….they only killed 3000 on American soil…why on earth would you punish them, that’s only .5% of COVID deaths, a nothing burger, but your ilk loses their minds over Arabs and Muslims, so much you tried to ban them, remove their civil rights, and murder them at random because you can’t tell the difference between a Shiek and a Daesh warrior. Why, Bob, if 600000 dead is a nothing burger, would you care a thing about 3000? Must be a different skin color/different belief prejudice thing.

You still want to investigate again and prosecute Clinton over 4 deaths in a hostile foreign country she wasn’t responsible for….but 600000 on American soil on the Cowardly Liar’s watch…. nothing to see here.

BLM was responsible for approximately 6 deaths at protests last year (right wing attackers were responsible for around 13 including the police they murdered to blame on BLM), and you want to ban and prosecute BLM members but not proud or boogaloo boys….but 600000 deaths, >90% of which were easily avoidable with just minimal leadership instead of the denial and blame shifting we got…fugehtabowdit!

And immigrants, they now have 600000 empty slots to fill before adding a single person to our population….open those borders and ring the dinner bell.

Only 2% of people tossed off fourth story roofs die, another way of saying that is 98% survive. I’ll be right over to throw you and your children off a fourth story roof….you won’t press charges because only a 2% chance of death each shouldn’t be punished, right?
🤦‍♂️

Yes, absolutely, if there’s a 2% death rate (I’m pretty certain it’s rising), and one unvaccinated idiot gives it to 50 more because you morons also won’t mask up or social distance, you just murdered someone and wasted around $4000000 to try to treat them. Like an arsonist that kills and maims people, you should go to prison for life.
Now consider you dumbshits are creating an epsilon variant that’s not effected by vaccination and is FAR more transmissible and deadly….you ARE the Wuhan lab creating another pandemic. You and yours are guilty of what you accuse China of doing, intentionally creating and releasing a deadly pandemic….because you’re fucking idiots. You think the Chinese involved should be executed….so logically so should anyone that refuses vaccination and gets COVID. That’s 99% of all COVID cases now.

Should you or someone else be punished for just one murder? If so, you get it and you are just trolling stupidly…if not, I’m going to need your address and to have that in writing with your signature, notarized and signed by a judge….then I’ll be right over to save you from a tiny shot with a much larger shot.

How many trillions did 18 months of COVID cost America alone? >$16 trillion IF it ends this fall….And you’re advocating another round or two. Are you and the other anti science dummies willing to put your entire net worth in escrow to pay for the damage your ignorant obstinance causes? I’m certain not, republicans NEVER accept responsibility for their actions….never….so stop the insanity and man up, or be a pariah, ostracized from society in a cell.

*************Trump said it’s not only safe, it’s smart and patriotic. Are you saying he’s lying to you, or that you aren’t smart or patriotic? If you only answer one question, make it this one.*************

There’s an over 10% hospitalization rate at an average of $80000 (some cost millions and still don’t make it) and of those hospitalized, 80+% had neurological symptoms, 50% had encephalopathy, and far more than twice as many had permanent brain damage as died…plus heart, lung, muscular, etc. disabilities, plus many losing one of their 5 senses permanently….why should the government pay for your choice to be irresponsible? Waive your rights to assistance now, it’s socialism anyway.

Then there’s the Petri dish angle….every non vaccinated asshole is a place for the virus to mutate enough that vaccination is made moot….and we are right back to April 2020 with another 600000 likely to die before any help, another year of businesses closed and social distancing at a minimum. Absolutely anyone making that possible, endangering hundreds of thousands of lives, permanently disabling at least twice that many Americans, killing another 1000 + children (the Delta variant already effects children much worse than the original) and severely disabling tens of thousands more, and orphaning hundreds of thousands, deserves life in prison or firing squad. Then let’s talk about the unintended abortions….getting COVID while pregnant is a near guaranteed death of the fetus….since when are you uneducated idiots pro abortion? Make no mistake, refusing to vaccinate causes unwanted abortions.

So again, absolutely you should be forced to vaccinate or be forcibly quarantined, and forced to pay the full cost of treatment for anyone you infect through willful negligence, and prosecuted for cases leading to death and permanent brain damage, and pay for lifetime care for the disabled, and not have your care paid for because it was 100% your choice….in fact no care at all, your ilk should never take up a bed needed by a child that couldn’t vaccinate, children are over 20% of cases, and while they don’t die as often, they still get permanent brain, heart, lung, and other damage at high rates.

What are you so afraid of, little baby? Republican women have much bigger balls than Republican men….they aren’t afraid of a tiny prick, they see them all the time.

600000 dead thanks to pretending it’s a mild flu and ignoring it for months = “fake COVID fear”
4 dead in a hostile country = “spend as long as it takes to force Clinton to pay”

No punishment, just exclusion from society and commerce in self defense. When you morons start spreading the next variant that mutated in one of your obese bodies and we go back to full quarantine, I’ll be totally open to either get the shot or get shot….you’ll be murdering people in the name of ignorant obstinance.
What happened to “grandma is fine dying if you can go back to work”…now turned into “I’m not getting a shot so we can go back to work because no one pwomised me a wowweepop and I’m afwaid of getting owchied.”

Go door to door, any house with an unvaccinated occupant should get sealed and the names published, and breaking quarantine should be the death penalty anyone can inflict just like you idiots said the elderly would accept.
Definitely anyone unvaccinated should pay every dime of treatment at this point, right? You claim to be about personal responsibility, so lobby your representatives to give insurance companies and the fed the right to not pay for COVID treatment for unvaccinated people. 90% of you morons would try to get one today if that was the case.

Public health is not a personal choice as long as you live in a society. Leave society, then you can live in personal freedom on quarantine island.

The problem with that is, as they burn, they incubate mutations with the possibility of making all the vaccinations and immunity useless against the new strain. That's why vaccination should be mandatory, with the only opt out option being quarantine in a secure camp. Let them burn, but apart, far away from everyone who was a responsible citizen.

these anti-vax idiots are gonna keep us in permanent lockdown and masks as this virus mutates around our countermeasures

owow, i get to actually argue because i don't have to simply correct facts??!? WHAT?!?


Oh you!


You DO care.



I wish you included sources for these quotes? best i can tell is it's from my link?


Whatever, look, give this man a badge. He posted something with ONLY factual data and then even separated his opinion from that. Right on dude.


-----------------
-----------------


Now, about the arguments themselves and your opinion, idk man. Look. You can't cherry pick this data like that. THAT is dishonest. Have you ever considered that most of this data come from a period in time where MOST schools were not physically in session? A time period where parents were being more cautious?


And yes, kids are of course less likely to die from this? DURRRRRR they are less likely to die from everything compared to a septuagenarian.

That's not the point you fucking dumbass
https://www.goerie.com/story/news/coronavirus/2021/04/20/covid-19-daily-update-coronavirus-cases-erie-county/7298744002/

Kids get it, kids spread it. Schools being closed stopped more spread than you can imagine.


But let me say that again.

Kids
get
it.

Kids
spread
it.


You know any dumb-asses that don't want to get vaccinated because BLAH BALH BLAH BULLSHIT BLAH BLAH BLAH fucking duckspeak. ie no good reason? Those people are at risk and more importantly,

THE MORE THIS KEEPS SPREADING THE MORE CHANCES EXIST FOR MUTATION THAT SIDESTEPS CURRENT PREVENTION OR CURRENT VACCINES - and then we are REALLY fucked.

His personal lack of planning, lack of concern, and total ineptitude caused it. Because he isn't a leader, he shirks responsibility, but the responsibility is his, personally.

And he did it again, 17 more of you chumps were hospitalized for heat stroke/exhaustion after another super spreader rally yesterday. When fire trucks and paramedics showed up to help the people collapsed on the ground, Trump actually suggested they might be the enemy attacking his crowd, saying "lets find out if they're friend or foe, and if they're foe let's take care of this", telling the crowd to attack the first responders who were trying to save their lives if they suspect they might be non cultists... he's so incredibly clueless and irresponsible, and he doesn't care if you die as long as you vote for him first.

How many have had to be hospitalized after Biden rallies? ZERO.


At this point, it's a certainty that his Petri dish events have killed at least hundreds by infecting thousands, in every state he visits there's a corresponding massive spike in cases and deaths a week or so later, contact traced back to his rallies every time. This is forcing new lockdowns and has already overrun the medical system in many areas.

Side note, he's socialistically dumping the problems on the first responders in the areas too, having made no plans or contingencies for these foreseeable fiascos, costing the local towns tens of thousands to millions in unrecoverable tax dollars to clean up his messes, and he still hasn't even paid for his rallies from 2016 in most cases, costing dozens of cities millions each for events he put on with the agreement to pay for them, agreements he consistently welches on.

As for his idiotic herd immunity plan guaranteed to kill at least 8 million Americans and likely to kill more like 50-75 million thanks to a total overrun of the medical system causing a lack of treatment for most, virologists have determined the immunity it might give the population wouldn't last one year before the virus mutates enough to reinfect everyone, starting the pandemic cycle over.

But you fell for the idea because you a low IQ tool.

And this is you guy you voting for?

🤦‍♂️

Stop posting this unscientific propaganda, pedophilia supporter.

Notice not one reference on any of his "data" because he likely made it up like he usually does.

His data doesn't match any verified data either, and his graphs are intentionally confusing, including individual states and countries in a completely unscientific propaganda graph, some countries with populations in the 70-80000 range. My guess is it's improperly presented this way to hide how bad America has done, with well over half the slots being US states and many of the remaining countries having tiny populations and third world conditions. This is the superstition side of the argument, not science based or scientific at all.

We have >200000 deaths with just over 2% infected. Herd immunity takes 70-80% being infected and a stable virus that won't mutate enough to erase immunity. That's a minimum of 7-8 MILLION Americans dead and p to 21-24 million permanently disabled if we have 1.6 million ICU beds....hint, we don't, so multiply the deaths by 4-7 but lower the disabled numbers, they'll die instead. So far, there's no study that shows herd immunity is even possible, since this virus mutates every few months it's unlikely. I think sacrificing millions - 60 million or more to find out is outrageously insane.

Use real, verified data, we are at best 8th worst (only 7 countries have more deaths per 100000 and 8th highest death rate per infection too). Just look at India, with 4 times the US population, just over 1 million fewer cases than the US, and way less than half the deaths....IN FUCKING INDIA.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/08/05/899365887/charts-how-the-u-s-ranks-on-covid-19-deaths-per-capita-and-by-case-count

Because our population is so large, that puts us at number one in total deaths with 4% of the population but 25% of deaths....so > 6 times the global average per capita and the most reported deaths by far.

Fail Bobski. Only the most uneducated rubes fall for this ridiculous nonsense.

Our health care system was stretched beyond it's limits with under 2% of Americans infected over a 9 month period, and even so 200000 died (likely more), some from lack of access to hospitals because they had zero beds available in entire states.
His plan is now to allow 35-40 times that many people to get infected in the next few years, which would lead to 7.3 million dead if we could give them the same treatment and mortality rate, but we simply cannot. 15-20% need ICU beds and equipment, in Trump's plan 9/10 won't get it at best, all those people will die, bringing the mortality rate up to as high as 20% +-.

.70 (expected minimum effective infection rate) x 350000000(population) x .20 (probable mortality rate without ICU care) = likely 49 MILLION +- expected dead if all goes to plan under Trump's herd mentality plan....an apt name since he's lining up Americans and sending us to the killing floors.

So somewhere between an optimistic 7.3 million and a pessimistic 49 million dead sacrificed Americans is his best idea (he knows tested widespread vaccines are years off and only good until the virus mutates, which it has already), plus any collateral damage from no functional health care and other factors. I can't fathom where this 3 million number that's being tossed around comes from, it seems insanely optimistic and not based in reality.

Yes, but my understanding is that the point isn't to starve the virus for hosts until it's dead, it's to slow the spread enough that hospitals aren't overrun. When they are, death rates explode, logically from 3-3.5% up to 15-20%. Of course, this plan relies on the hope that immunity is relatively full and permanent, something we don't know yet.

If people weren't morons, I would agree about parks and beaches....but they are. Even those smart enough to try and social distance in public often forget and hug goodbye, and most aren't being that smart.

The problem with sending people back is we don't have a single study on immunity. We don't know if you have full immunity after recovering from being infected, or if so how long it might last. Many other coronaviruses mutate enough that immunity is for one season at best. We need to study the virus in detail before making assumptions on life and death issues, and it's smart to err on one side of caution with stakes this high until we know. Opening up before we know is a pure gamble....the odds might be good, but the stakes are sky high.

In a near worst case scenario, it's possible that Covid19 is going to remain as dangerous as it is today for some time with reinfection possible, and that any future vaccines will need yearly changes and booster shots to be effective, like the flu shot but hopefully more effective. In that case, the best we can really do is be prepared for a constant flow of large numbers of patients and deaths. That's going to require a complete retooling and expansion of the medical system, but silver lining, it's hundreds of thousands of good paying jobs that robots can't do...yet.

*length=1:59

That background makes it look like Chernobyl and that is just a mutated house cat.

wtf? is that a mutation? google images for those shows normal looking goats...

Lyrics from https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/perfectcircle/disillusioned.html :

(Dopamine, on dopamine...)

We have been overrun by our animal desire
Addicts of the immediate keep us obedient and unaware
Feeding this mutation, this Pavlovian despair

We've become disillusioned
So we run towards anything glimmering

Time to put the silicon obsession down
Take a look around, find a way in the silence
Lie supine away with your back to the ground
Dis- and re-connect to the resonance now
You were never an island

Unique voice among the many in this choir
Tuning into each other, lift all higher

(Dopamine, on dopamine...)

Willingly been re-wired by clever agents within
Looping our reflections, our obsessions draw us in
Fix and fixation, no sentience beyond

We've become disillusioned
So we dive like crows towards anything glittering

Time to put the silicon obsession down
Take a look around, find a way in the silence
Lie supine away with your back to the ground
Dis- and re-connect to the resonance now
You were never an island

Unique voice among the many in this choir
Tuning into each other, lift all higher