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"I've always wondered myself about keyless tech safety for this exact reason. How can the signal not just be copied and replayed?"

Well, I can't say for certain, but if I was designing it, the signal wouldn't be the same every time. Basically, you would have an algorithm that generates a signal (essentially a large number encoded as a binary stream) based on a seed and the current time.

The seed is unique to the car and the key.

So when you press the button, the key does something like

entryCode = SomeComplexAlgorithm(seed, time())

so the car would do something like

entryRequest = GetSignal()
checkedRequest = SomeComplexAlgorithm(sameSeedAsKey, time())
if (checkedRequest == entryRequest) Unlock()

That's obviously a vast oversimplification (not sure how they'd get around the time sync), but you get the idea.

What surprises me here is not that the car starts, but that it doesn't cut out once it gets out of range of the key. Even a strong relay would only have a short range (1-2km at most?).

I'm sure there's a mechanical fallback. My Jetta has keyless entry (the doors unlock when you touch the handle so long as you have the key on you) and keyless ignition (again, the key has to be inside the car) but if the battery goes dead, you can still unlock the door the traditional way and the car can detect the dead key if you hold it against the steering column (RFID, I'm guessing).

>> ^PCGuy123:

>> ^syncron:
Couldn't she just remove the key to kill the engine?

(beaten by snoozedoctor)
No, this model of Kia Sorento had a proximity key, so she could start the car by just having the key fob on her person. I guess there is no way to turn off the car while it's in gear.
I'm finding inconsistent news articles on this story: one said the police don't know why the car finally stopped, while another article indicates the driver followed a troopers advice and lifted up the accelerator pedal while pressing on the brake, which made the car stop. But another article claimed the brakes were burned out already. The driver also put the car in neutral but that had no effect.
Kia Motors responded this was an isolated incident. I'm suspicious that Kia could do a thorough test on this in less than a day.


Just FYI, I believe you can turn off the car in Keyless ignition systems by holding in the button for x-seconds. Just knowledge that might help if this happens to anyone else.

ALL of the cars with electronic keyless ignition can be turned off by HOLDING DOWN THE MOTHER FARKING BUTTON. Yes I said ALL. It's 2-4 seconds depending on the model.

>> ^syncron:

Hello class action suit.
>> ^PCGuy123:
>> ^syncron:
Couldn't she just remove the key to kill the engine?

No, this model of Kia Sorento had a proximity key, so she could start the car by just having the key fob on her person. I guess there is no way to turn off the car while it's in gear.
I'm finding inconsistent news articles on this story: one said the police don't know why the car finally stopped, while another article indicates the driver followed a troopers advice and lifted up the accelerator pedal while pressing on the brake, which made the car stop. But another article claimed the brakes were burned out already. The driver also put the car in neutral but that had no effect.
Kia Motors responded this was an isolated incident. I'm suspicious that Kia could do a thorough test on this in less than a day.



You could be onto something: I wonder if all electric ignition cars need some kind of emergency cut-off switch installed, in case of situations like this one with the Kia Sorento?

I have electric ignition on my 2012 Toyota, need to check to see if there is any kind of override...

EDIT: on my keyless starter I have to press and hold the starter button for 3 seconds, which should cut the engine off. But that feature may not be the same for other keyless starter systems.

Apparently the NHTSA has proposed standardizing keyless ignition systems in an effort to help reduce accidents related to these systems, per this article: http://www.robertreeveslaw.com/blog/feds-propose-standardization-of-keyless-ignition-systems

From the article:
"The agency also wants to specify the amount of time necessary to push the control to stop the engine. A driver should be able to stop the car immediately in an emergency without having to wait too long to hold the ignition control in order to do so. Keyless ignition control systems have been linked partly to the sudden unintended acceleration crisis at Toyota. In August 2009, a Lexus being driven by an off-duty California Highway Patrol officer went out of control accelerated to excessive speeds and crashed. All 4 occupants of the car were killed instantly. In the Lexus that was involved in the accident, the driver needed to hold the keyless control for as long as 3 seconds in order to cut the engine. In 2007, there was a similar accident involving a Honda Accord. The driver wanted to switch off the engine in an emergency using the keyless ignition, but could not do so."

I live where this took place. The local paper gave her account that the car would not go in to neutral, that because the car was keyless electric ignition, she couldn't turn it off, and she used the brakes to no avail. Doesn't make sense to me. Any motorheads able to enlighten us here?

I find the part about the keyless entry more entertaining than the titled "women write letters". That was a funny point about checking to see if the car is actually locked when you walk away, but you can't because when you walk up to the car it is automatically unlocked. LOL.

Isn't this an old episode? which is why the set looks like it does?

Yay.

These people have too much time on their hands. They could also write a program to identify the unlock signals from other keyless entry systems and use it to break in to people's cars. Those systems are insecure unless the signal changes often (perhaps use a hash function on the current time).