because fuck introverts, that's why.

That is a germaphobe crowd hating introvert's worst nightmare.

I have the "gall" to admit it that she inspired me in high school. I know numerous people who were as well. None of them are antisocial assholes. I'm perhaps a bit anti-social in the respect that I'm very much an introvert, but people who know me generally don't describe me as an asshole.

It wasn't accidental. Advocating for reason, science, individual rights, critical thinking, trying to be good at what you do, being unafraid to think differently than others, none of that makes you automatically an asshole.

I don't think she was evil. I think her case is complicated as many philosophers were. There's good and bad to it. That's like saying Che Guevara is ipso facto being a fan or somehow on some plane similar or equivalent of being a fan of Stalin, and therefore it's offensive.

Just... no... that's just factually and logically not true.

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@noims -- My grandfather had about 10 war stories that he rotated through telling, pretty much exclusively after one of my uncles "broke the dam" by asking him to recall things as they were at the Oshkosh air show standing next to a P-47 airplane like he had worked on.

By the time that happened, my grandfather was in his 80's and in very good physical and mental shape (cattle rancher that did daily work manhandling heavy feed bags around, etc.) but had a quirky personality because he was 90%+ deaf. I don't think that was a result of the war, hearing problems seem to run in the family.

Anyway, he frequently used those hearing problems as an excuse for not having to interact with people. He had hearing aids, but he'd turn them off most of the time and just ignore people. I think some of that was being an introvert, and some was probably lingering "shell shock" / PTSD effects. But overall he really adjusted back to civilian life just fine. Got a degree in education on the GI Bill and taught and coached basketball to High School students, then worked as a small-town Postmaster, and eventually retired to work the ranch. I don't think any of us in his family, including his wife and children, thought of him as being "impaired" by the mental effects of the war. But it was clear that some of what he experienced had a very deep, lifelong effect on his outlook.


I wrote out the 3 stories of his above because they seemed to be the ones that had the most emotional impact on him. To me, it was interesting that a lot of stuff outside of combat hit him the hardest. He also had more traditional "war stories" stuff about victories and bravery, like when his unit captured / accepted the surrender of a young German pilot in a Bf-109 who deserted to avoid near certain death from flying too many missions after the handwriting was on the wall that the allies were going to win. But by far, he got more choked up about the other stuff like having to knock that French girl off her bike and seeing starving civilians and being unable to help them much.

Like you said, more banal stuff side-by-side with or against a backdrop of horror. I think it's pretty much impossible to imagine what those sorts of experiences in war are really like and what being in those situations would do to us mentally. And then WW2 in particular just had a massive impact on the entire generation. Basically everybody back home knew multiple people that went away and never came back. Then when some did come back, they were clearly different and yet reluctant to talk about what happened. Pretty messed up time to live through, I guess.

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Yep, that's me as an introvert!

Fight me. Or experiment on me with psychedelic drugs -- PLEASE. Why does the government never do any of the cool experiments on its citizenry anymore? Such a let down. All they do now is jack off to the porn on my cellphone. CIA stands for "Creepy Introverts And?" *monotonous Ben Stein voice* Aaaannnddd?? Anyone? Anyone? *Bewitched nose crinkle and librarian voice* Mmmmm... could it beeeeeee -- Satan?!

I had never heard it claimed that cigars pose less/different cancer risks than cigarettes.

Google search provides mixed (as you might expect) results.

Cancer.gov, the Mayo Clinic, and WebMD all seem to suggest that cigar smokers in general tend to have lower rates of lung cancer than cigarette smokers (because they generally don't inhale, which I didn't know), but higher than non-smokers. And they have comparable or possibly higher rates of other cancers (oral, esophageal ... pancreatic) as compared to cigarette smokers.

Several results suggest that there is less data about cigars, results aren't statistically significant, etc. etc. and that they believe that cigars are much safer than cigarettes, if not entirely safe. But frankly, the pages I see (in a cursory search that I don't really have a personal stake in) promoting that view don't seem as ... trustworthy to me as the Mayo Clinic, or Healthcare Triage videos like this one (that list references right in the video).


No holier-than-thou attitude intended. ...Although I can say that I'm personally very glad I never acquired a taste for tobacco products of any kind. And a very low interest in alcohol consumption -- I go months on up to a year+ between drinks of booze without ever missing it. I sometimes avoid social situations because of smoke, which I suppose is a downside. But on the other hand, I'm enough of an introvert that avoiding social situations is probably something I'd be doing anyway... So at the very least I have more money to waste on other things since I'm not a smoker or much of a drinker.

To me, they were 100% acceptable, and *almost* entirely out of uncanny valley territory.

Two possible sources for my tolerance are lots of time spent playing video games, and a highly introverted nature. Would be interesting to see survey results to see if there is any positive correlation between those or other factors and being generally easier to impress / satisfy with CG movie effects.

I'm on the pretty extreme end of the introversion side of the curve.

I remember talking about introversion vs. extroversion in Psych 101 at college. I think that talking about it in that classroom environment helped to foster a lot of understanding between both sides. Very extroverted people talked about how they would get anxiety on up to physical symptoms of discomfort if they went for several hours with zero human interaction, which completely blew my mind.

But, I'll feel similar discomfort if you drop me into a loud, crowded party. If I'm ever trapped in a situation like that, I quickly escalate from nervous to annoyed to "honey badger in a corner" enraged.

I think there is definitely a societal extroversion bias, but a lot of it is well-intentioned. Many leaders tend to be extroverts, and they sort of "feel sorry" for people who seem to distance themselves from the group. Then they will try to incorporate those people into the group, thinking that they are doing them a favor. But in many cases, that is the exact opposite of what we introverts actually want.

I think that both personality types have advantages that can make them uniquely suited towards specific tasks. A really good leader understands both types and knows how to get the best out of either.

1. I just spent 45 minutes reading details of lives of people I have never met. At least, I don't think so. Hmmm.
2. I'm fairly new to VS and I'm marrying the man who introduced me to it.
3. We're getting married tomorrow .
4. This will be my second, and final, marriage.
5. I curse. A lot. My voice tends to carry (or I'm just loud) and this sometimes causes problems...for others.
6. I'm in corporate sales.
7. I'm very good at what I do...but I hate it.
8. I am an introvert. I hide it well. Or so I'm told.
9. I am an avid reader. Anything that catches my interest, so the titles on my bookshelves sometimes baffle people.
10. I have 2 sons who I hope I'm not screwing up too much.
11. I was considered a "troubled youth" and my parents sent me to military school.
12. Then I joined the army. So I guess it worked...but really I just wanted to get away from my state.
13. 5 years later, I came back. And haven't been able to make it out of this black hole for the last 10 years.
14. I smoked for 20 years, with only a few brief periods of quitting.
15. I quit 3 days ago, for the last time.
16. 15 is probably not true. Just to keep it honest.
17. I grew up in a family rife with addiction and dysfunction.
18. We have one of the closest family units I know, now.
19. I am a "grammar nazi," but I probably overuse ... and ( ).
20. I'm a sucker for cop and crime shows.
21. This has made me believe I could probably get away with murder.
22. I would never murder anyone...but I do often contemplate it. Mostly while driving in traffic.
23. I'm seriously considering deleting this post right now, but the beer is telling me not to.
24. I have a real passion for singing...but no talent for it. Cruel, cruel world!
25. I'm hitting submit before proofreading in order not to chicken out, so I apologize for any typos.

Yeah, i dont trust a single fuck with a badge or a gun or both and a uniform. That wasnt always so. At one time i was a pretty lame introverted nerd with the world as my oyster. Listening to Rage Against the Machine made me concerned, because it was too extreme. And then the iron fist of law enforcement thought theyd fuck with me and make me suffer for what was not my burden. And then it just gets worse and worse, a downward spiral of constant legal battles, jail time, mental illness, etc. etc. etc. Its all the same to me, govt, law enforcement, human resource representatives, executives, redcoats. Oppression creates terrorism. Always.

During the Philippine-American war, the events which lead up to our own soldiers commiting acts of genocide started with our disregard of the indigenous people, oppression, and penchant for disrespecting local men and harassing their women; as well, our ignorant and well documented philosophies of Anglo-Saxon exceptionalism. The family of the abused rise up and attack their oppressors. Terrorism will always be so as long as the mighty refuse to respect all ways of life and seek instead to instill their systems of government and create puppet governments whoch fail, destablizing entire regions.

Because now the game is bigger. You dont simply destablize a region: when you oppress people, you destabilize an entire zeitgeist, affecting far more people than ever before. People in America rise up to join forces that provide promises of liberty that America no longer offers. Even if those terror groups themselves lie, the broken people see it as a hope. The oppressed will crawl out of the woodwork and kill. There is no precise pattern when frank castles of the world do their deeds. Its just like the 4000 deaths per year from semitrucks, the trucking industry says 70% (debatable, likely a lower number) of accidents are caused by noncommercial vehicles. Impatient people weaving in and out of traffic and cutting off truck drivers oppresses them and sometimes even they to rise up and do terror.

So simple answer: Love, peace, and good will are what the government should promote. Of course, that would simply open them to being taken advantage of... so, we are fucked, always and forever. But maybe even if we cant promote true peace, perhaps we can at least avoid creating the terrorists we fear.