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Godless – The Truth Beyond Belief

shinyblurry says...

Yes, Jesus is 1/2 human, but not the half by which our sin nature is passed down. The sin nature is inherited from the father and not the mother.

God is eternal. He is uncreated, having no beginning or end. In other words, He isn't subject to time, time is subject to Him because He created it. It's impossible to really wrap our minds around that, being finite creatures who are subject to time. It should then therefore go without saying that how an eternal being not subject to time deals with time is beyond our understanding.

Whether we are able to fully comprehend it or not, the important issue is that to God, Jesus' sacrificial death was justice for all sin. That is good news for us! That means that we can be forgiven and receive eternal life.

I am also not sure why you are saying the infinite room idea is a fallacy; do you think this is a religious concept? This is a paradox postulated by mathematicians, not theologians:

"Hilbert's paradox is a veridical paradox: it leads to a counter-intuitive result that is provably true. The statements "there is a guest to every room" and "no more guests can be accommodated" are not equivalent when there are infinitely many rooms."

It is a logically valid idea according to mathematicians.

newtboy said:

Nope, you have some kind of misunderstanding. Jesus is at least 1/2 human, born of Mary, so totally guilty like the rest of us.
No, immortals, even demigods, do not somehow warp spacetime so they experience the entirety of infinity in every moment repeatedly. That's just silly mental gymnastics to make sense of the senseless and excuse the impossibility and contradictions of the fable.
Infinite space is not infinite time....and neither exists. More mental gymnastics, but this time for what? The infinite room fallacy just means hell won't overbook, not that someone can endure infinity in a weekend, no matter how magic pops is.
Leave the reviews of hell to those you relegate to it. You have no idea what kind of parties we're into. ;-)

Godless – The Truth Beyond Belief

shinyblurry says...

Hey newtboy, you have a misunderstanding there. The original sin was committed in the garden of Eden, when Adam and Eve ate of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Because of that, death entered the world through Adam:

1 Corinthians 15:21-22: For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Jesus didn't have a sin nature because God was His Father. That was, I think, one of the reasons why the virgin birth was necessary. Jesus is the new Adam.

In regards to Jesus bearing our punishment, Jesus fully bore Gods wrath for all sin. The way I understand it is this: Jesus, being God, is an infinite being. Because He is an infinite being, He could bear an infinite punishment in a finite amount of time. It seems counter intuitive to us finite creatures, but there is a good illustration of the concept by a mathematician named David Hilbert:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilbert's_paradox_of_the_Grand_Hotel

The idea is that you have a hotel with an infinite amount of rooms which is totally occupied. A guest comes by who wishes to be accommodated so the owner has the guest in room 1 move to room 2, and the guest in room 2 move to room 3, etc, which makes room for the guest. You can do this an infinite amount of times.

As far as partying in hell, that is not what the bible says will happen. The bible describes hell as eternal conscious torment. In juxtaposition to that, this is what the bible says Heaven is like:

Revelation 21:3-5

And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying:

“Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man,
and He will live with them.

They will be His people,
and God Himself will be with them as their God.

He will wipe away every tear from their eyes,
and there will be no more death
or mourning or crying or pain,
for the former things have passed away.”

And the One seated on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” Then He said, “Write this down, for these words are faithful and true.”

newtboy said:

Let's not forget original sin. Jesus certainly committed that one by being born.

I also take issue with his short vacation in hell equating to "taking the punishment we deserve". How does a long weekend by one equate to eternity for billions? I've discussed that with shiny before, but I don't understand his answer.

I'm with you, though. Much better to party at the hookilaou in hell than lay prostrate in heaven.

German engineers being told they've been targeted by GCHQ

mxxcon says...

Bleh. This is hype and scaremongering by Germany.
It is nowhere even near to the crap that NSA was/is trying to pull with their efforts.
Other than the password for that one router/system, everything else is a publicly available information.
Here's interactive map of every single IP on the internet http://internetcensus2012.bitbucket.org/hilbert/index.html
Here's the same scary looking "Top Secret" Robtex graph for videosift.com https://www.robtex.com/en/advisory/dns/66/228/54/105/#graph

If Germany is trying to stir public outrage, they should do better than this.

Infinity Paradoxes - Numberphile

mmorgan says...

I don't get this Hilbert Hotel nonsense. You've got an infinite number of already occupied rooms. When you shift them over the "guy at the end" will be shifted into the 1st room, right? Is there an infinity plus 1? Sounds as nonsensical as dividing by zero.

William Lane 'Two Citations' Craig, Academic Midget

HadouKen24 says...

It's only fallacious if I'm actually making an argument, which I wasn't. Just personal comments on the man's work.

I didn't go into specifics simply because of time, but if you like, I can give you a brief rundown of what I find objectionable about his work.

The KCA: Craig seems to think that the Kalam Cosmological Argument is a very strong argument for theism, but it has numerous weaknesses. Craig argues for the impossibility of an actual infinite, whether in terms of a series in time, or of an infinitude of physical objects. His arguments in this regard are spectacularly weak. He believes, for instance, that the Hilbert's Hotel paradox shows that an actual infinite is absurd. This is not what the paradox shows, however--it only shows that an actual infinite would behave in unintuitive ways, breaking apart properties of numbers that we normally find together. Moreover, Craig provides no good reason to think that the first cause would have to be personal. He assumes that only a person could cause something to come from nothing, but doesn't back this up with any sound arguments.

Religious Epistemology: Craig asserts that philosophical arguments are neither necessary nor sufficient to have justified belief and genuine knowledge of the truth of Christianity--the light of the Holy Spirit is enough. He says this of himself as well, and is thus committed to his belief in Christianity regardless of any arguments that might be presented. He thus declares himself impervious to any argument that might vitiate Christianity--this is a profound philosophical failing. To declare that no conceivable argument can convince you away from your position is to declare the entire philosophical enterprise almost entirely purposeless with regard to that question.

The Resurrection: Craig uses Bayesian probability theory to argue for the likelihood of the resurrection, claiming that when the calculation of prior probability includes a belief in the existence of God, then the resurrection will be probable--and thus, the rejection of the resurrection by atheists just comes down to a dogmatic rejection based on a previously held belief. Craig is not the first to make this argument; Richard Swinburne first advanced it in the 70's. It is, however, a very bad argument. It only works if the "God" in question is in particular a Christian God to begin with. Not just any God will do, or the resurrection of Jesus is hardly more likely than the epiphany of Krishna or the revelations to Mohammad. But the specifically Christian notion of God was developed only out of belief in the resurrection in the first place. Thus, Craig's argument is largely circular.

Six famous thought experiments each explained in 60 seconds

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