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Dan Savage - Is It Bad To Say "That's Gay" and "Faggot"?

yellowc says...

This again comes down to context.

See you are making the association that when the word "gay" is used in replace of "lame", that it is a direct reference to "being gay is lame", which is not the case. It is just the word "lame", stop, no association with sexual preference.

The point that Dan is making, is the word used in a society that is openly accepting of homo/hetro relationships, it would be a non-issue, the distinction would be obvious and no one would be of any offense and as he points out, the term for homosexuality may in fact change again.

His issue is with policing words as black or white, when language is much more grey. Yes we don't live in this perfect world but we shouldn't police the english language because of it, rather try and educate, promote use towards it.

For example, when two homosexuals use the term "gay" between each other, much like the word "nigga", it it understood how this word is being used. Why can't that same privilege be afforded to a hetrosexual person who is in full support, understanding and acceptance of being a homosexual? There should be no more remorse involved because the user is not directly in the minority.

Censorship has never solved anything and if you tell people "Don't ever use the gay word like that!", you don't get a good result. The people who used it negatively will use it even *stronger* and be fulfilled that it effected you so much. The key to acceptance is commonality, not further isolation.

>> ^FlowersInHisHair:

I do hate to disagree with Mr Savage, who speaks very well about the practicalities of sex, and whose opinion and good sense I generally trust and revere. But to dismiss this as simply the "evolution of language" is damaging, and in fact misses the point. The use of the word "gay" to mean anything "a bit generally rubbish" is itself founded on homophobia. Kids call things they don't like "gay" because they consider homosexuality to be undesirable; now how is that supposed to make gay kids, reluctant to come out for fear of persecution, feel about what they are? What if "Jewish", or "female" came to mean "anything a bit generally crap"? Would there be a serious and concerted effort to stamp out such a perversion of the language that a group had used to describe itself? You bet your ass there would.
And yes, "gay" used to mean something else, language evolves, blah blah. That's fine if the word in question doesn't identify a vulnerable group that is still fighting for acceptance and equality on an individual and global level.

Governator: We will maybe undo Prop 8

quantumushroom says...

Ahhh yes... the good ol' days right QM?... back when we didn't let those dark people vote... Oh the memories... If only we could turn back the clock and all be hetrosexual old white men...

Ad hominem attacks based on no evidence? Why not just say you're a typical racist liberal?

Look it is simple, they want the right to form a specific legal contract (without having to write a 1000 page document and have ridiculous legal fees) do you really care? And how can you justify not allowing two consenting adults not having the rights? If it is the word, then fine... but then no one should be married.

Society has the right to proclaim certain unions more important than others. Based on centuries of experience, trial and error, society has chosen traditional marriage as the one proven to work better than all others and which serves society the best.

Placing any other type of union on par with traditional marriage renders the latter meaningless and ordinary.

Thems just my opinions based on experience. I can't control whether they upset or please others.

Governator: We will maybe undo Prop 8

Januari says...

Ahhh yes... the good ol' days right QM?... back when we didn't let those dark people vote... Oh the memories... If only we could turn back the clock and all be hetrosexual old white men...

Bill O'Reilly's obsession with lesbians

spoco2 says...

Holy crap. NONE of Bill's 'valid points' are in any way valid.

* Why is it bad to normalize it? It SHOULD BE NORMALIZED, because it is completely NORMAL for some people to be gay.
* It's harder to be a gay person. Well DUH, if dickheads like you keep making it 'abnormal' and make kids feel wrong to be gay, then that will continue... it SHOULDN'T be harder. And the only way it's not going to be harder? Is to make it NORMAL.
* Religion. A Fucking bullshit argument. Because some people are bigoted and don't like homosexuals, and use religion as their get out of jail free card to be a bigoted shit, that does NOT make it ok in any sense of the word. Fuck religion as an excuse for being a racist or bigoted dick.
* Sexualising minors? In what way are they doing ANYTHING more or less than the hetrosexual kids? Fuck off once again.

Gah... narrow minded shit for brains who tries to do the 'well, some people have these valid concerns'.

THEY ARE IN NO WAY VALID

NO WAY

IN NO POSSIBLE WAY ARE THEY VALID

A Gay Brigadier General Asks a question

sometimes says...

to those who talk about homosexuality being unnatural, I hasten to point out some other things that are unnatural:

computers
plastic
air conditioning
clothes
books
reading
speech
marriage
toilets


Additionally, homosexuality occurs in many animal species: Big horn sheep, bonobos, lesbian rhesus macaques, penguins, American Bison, giraffes,
oh, and look: lions too!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6066606.stm

Now the traditional counter argument to this is "we shouldn't use animal behavior as a justification for human behavior". that's fine, just as long as you pick one or the other. either use the "it's unnatural" argument, and allow the "but it's natural for these critters" argument, or drop the "natural" argument altogether, you can';t pick some "natural" behaviors and ignore others.





for those who talk about homosexuality being wrong because it can't make babies, and making babies is what sex is for:
fine, please give up oral sex, wanking, and recreational sex.

what percentage of hetrosexual behaviors lead to making babies?
if the average adult lives to 75, that's 55+ years having sex.
over the course of a lifetime, americans average out to 60 times per year.
that's 3465 times.
the average american has 2.5 kids.
that means one out of 1386 times having sex leads to making babies.
that's 0.07215% of all sex acts leading to babies.
boy, that feels statistically significant.

Man Caught Having Sex With Bicycle Sentenced (Sexuality Talk Post)

ClusterF@#k to the White House

ClusterF@#k to the White House

spoco2 says...

Very entertaining and oh so biting... I love the man.

In a purely hetrosexual, planotic, non touching kinda way of course.

I mean, really... being thought of as having any sexual thoughts towards John Stewart... that's... that's... well, actually that's my wife's department

The Day Today: Rok TV (BBC comedy clip by Chris Morris)

benjee says...

Funny one DeputyDog...although I'm slightly upset we can't 'sexually reproduce' in return for a vote (where's that SiftBot blackmarket when you need it!?) I'll reluctantly accept the term 'mate' in it's friendship context (by the way, the above is a joke [could do with a sarcasm smiley!] - contrary to popular belief: I'm a bland hetrosexual!...not that it matters at all).

Thanks again Dag for your assistance with promoting my post!

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