“ my solution would be every able bodied Jewish man and woman join the French (or Polish, Russian, British) army and fucking fight…”

I agree that’s the noble thing to do, but I can’t condemn the ones that choose to seek safety in numbers with Jewish Palestinians as exclusively invasion minded aggressors. My 6 million tag was maybe a bit sharp, but you also know that the Nazi’s took Paris and as much as it sucked to be French or European under Nazi occupation, you also know adding Jewish to that carried a lot of extra consequence and danger to your family.

My POV is agnostic of everything save Isreali people today having a right exist as a nation. Which at this point from my POV leaves 1947 as somewhat academic.

It’s your insistence that Jewish people, and the existence of Israel, have always fundamentally been invaders that I was objecting to as it is so intensely at odds with factual history.

You gave a brief nod on not being a scholar of Palestinian history, but then proceed to just count all Jewish refugees as good as Zionist aggressors from day 1(or close enough), and the local Arab population as nothing but pure, kind caring victims of these invaders.

I will state again, that is ahistorical propaganda and NOT what actually happened. And for my POV, its enough generations back as to be Academic, but for your POV it is fundamental because without being able to writeoff Israel as invaders from day 1, nuance enters the calculus and suddenly the conflict is flooded with shades of grey because lots of parties all contribute to the bloodshed, and many with reasonable motivations from both sides yet too.

Please find me any reputable sources to refute the reality of 1920-1940s Palestine:
-Mass Jewish immigration fleeing European oppression raised tensions between Jewish and Arab Palestinians.(as one must expect)
-Arab palestinians were already chaffing and resisting British colonial rule(as one must expect)
-These tensions led conflict, initially more ‘civil’ with the Arab majority trying to refuse all business, sales and trade with all Jews.
-Escalation followed throughout that time, but in drips and drops and NOT a ‘surprise the Zionist army has arrived’! style of aggression

The violent escalation was a fight here, a beating there. Little individual fights, escalating into deaths. Retaliations slowly grew, with each side exchanging small escalations.

-the culmination of this was eventually all out civil war, and the Jewish side immediately accepting a UN mandated 2 state solution

-this culmination coinciding with the end of WW2 and revelations of the true extent of the holocaust can’t be ignored, it certainly shaped the Jewish mindset in the conflict.

-Their mindset was pretty clearly not inaccurate either, as the immediate response of all neighbouring Arab nations was a declaration of war on the new ‘state’, with bold claims of how quickly the Jews would be swept into the sea. The confidence was so high, a call was sent it for ALL Arab palestinians to abandon and flee the entire region of Palestine to better enable the complete cleansing of the land.

The above is all pretty much inarguably factual, and I’d bargain you could get an Arabic and Israeli scholar together to more or less agree on those facts which is saying alot.

——
Propaganda from both sides would like to declare that the Arabs harboured deep Nazi sympathies, and thus Israel was pure and true in all it did. Or from the other side, more or less your narrative of Zionist bad guys launching invasion from day 1(ish).

Both though are just sprinklings of half truths, with anti-British resentment naturally breeding some leanings towards the axis, and even genuine Nazi cleanse the Jews believers. And absolutely Zionists featured prominently within the Jewish population. Neither of those partial truths though make the propaganda of either side true, but instead just an incomplete and intentionally biased picture.


Again, please find me sources demonstrating I’m terribly wrong on all that, but the only ones I can find are clearly biased and the accurate accounts paint the picture above, the propaganda very, very clearly copies the real story more or less with just deletions of inconvenient bits

Not if you excuse the invasion and takeover because they were DUE reparations, or even because they were fleeing the Nazis. I think reparations were due….by Germany, not Palestine.
Palestine paid them…and continues to pay them today.
It’s not feasible today, but it was directly after WW2, and that’s what we should have supported, even enforced.

Do you deny a massive influx of Jewish illegal immigrants invited by those who had been generously granted asylum? Do you deny they had the intent to take the land by force for a Jewish state? Do you deny most came after the war ended so weren’t fleeing war or Nazis? If not, where’s the disagreement? If so, citations please.

If they came illegally, absolutely, I object. If they came secretly intending to take the land of their benefactors by force, absolutely, I object. It was mostly in the later 40’s btw, largely AFTER the war ended. They weren’t fleeing Nazi persecution then.
Yes, when you come against the wishes of the local government intending to depose it, install your own, and expel the natives, that’s called invasion. That’s their history.

If I invite a refugee to live in my yard, and they invite their family, neighbors, and groups of armed militants who steal my house, land, and property and put me on skid roe, and the police turn a blind eye, even supporting the squatters because they’ve had it hard lately, do you think I have a right to get my friends to try to remove them, even if I wasn’t prepared to fight to the death unarmed and alone against their mob? If I do, do you still call me the aggressor? Come on. Don’t ignore the primary original crime that precipitated 70 years of atrocities.

Israel declared war by becoming a state by stealing one. I find it bullshit to blame the Palestinians neighbors for supporting their neighbor against a massive invasion and land grab by foreigners. Again, like Mexicans taking Texas back and you complaining if we tried to keep it, especially if we asked our Allie’s for help. Utter nonsense.

The Jewish people had already invaded and expelled the natives, removing all rights from any remaining. The two state solution = just go ahead and keep Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Colorado, and Utah because there’s already illegal immigrants there, in a few years you can have Kansas and Nevada, then keep expanding….those people are currently in Texas at this time. Again, you ignore the invasion, land theft, and expulsion to pretend Israel was already there…nonsense again.

Yes, it took more force to keep it from the armies of the allies of Palestine than it did to steal it from the recently liberated colony of Palestine that had no military. Duh.

What I see differently is I don’t ignore or forget the violent forced invasion by the Jewish zionists, nor the expulsion, theft from, and dehumanization of the natives, I don’t blame the natives for attempting to regain their ancestral home or properties that the Jewish state outright stole, nor do I ignore the horrific conditions those same people and their descendants have lived under for 70 years, constantly invaded further, no travel allowed, no imports, no water, no medicine, no weapons but treated like the aggressors and the criminal invaders for attempting to fight for THEIR OWN LAND, kept in shrinking ghettos, treated as sub humans to be exterminated, exactly what the Nazis did to the Jews but on a national level.

There can't be two most satisfying videos...
They should be made to fight to the death somehow.

*related=http://videosift.com/video/The-Most-Satisfying-Video-Ever-Made

Forced Fighting to the death for entertainment. Just Like the Romans.

At thirteen i did this with bees in a bucket of water. At fourteen i realized I was being fucking lame.

Nice. Capitalism vs Socialism: not a fight to the death but yet another system of checks and balances.

"Both sides now crippled beyond repair, the remnants of their armies continue to battle on ravaged planets, their hatred fueled by over four thousand years of total war. This is a fight to the death. For each side, the only acceptable outcome is the complete elimination of the other."

Just goes to show you that when cornered, feral animals will usually fight to the death to survive and that as with any election by ballot, votes don't mean much in the grand scheme of a scheme

bareboards2 , we second your enthusiastic suggestion
*stamps feet and grumbles in parliamentary fashion, adjusts powdered wig.

BY the way.....This chicks' hawt and I wanna breed with her

Lyrics:

oh my god!

my bleeding heart bleeds blood for you, woah, woah

traveling down this lonely road, woah

facing my hurt, hurting my face, yeah yeah yeah

i chainsaw your face off, watching your brains rotting, kid
drain your veins raw, straining your esophagus

위하여, 음악에 미친 널 [we-hah-yeo, umage michin null]
위하여, 술잔에 비친 널 [we-hah-yeo suljane bichin null]
[translation: "cheers to you who are crazy for the music! / cheers to you who are reflected on the (wine) glass!"]

finding the truth
take it back
finding the truth
it's nothing
change
and tesselate
as we fight to the death

il mio amore è corrisposto

we all dance to the polka
for it is so fun
still dancing to the polka
with my accordion

love is everywhere
smoke is in the air

pick it up, pick it up!
oi! oi! oi! oi!
pick it up, pick it up, pick it up, pick it up!
oi! oi! oi! oi!

a to z, z, z
a to z, z, z
a to z

as we cross the open seas
twoards the call of war
our axes we'll free
guided by the hand of thor

yeah yeah yeah
and our love will never end

List of genres:
1. Ambient
2. Baroque
3. Chiptune
4. Dubstep
5. Emo
6. Folk
7. Grunge
8. Horrorcore
9. IDM
10. Jazz
11. K-Pop
12. Latin
13. Math Metal
14. Noise
15. Opera
16. Polka
17. Quan Ho
18. Reggae
19. Ska
20. Trap
21. UK Garage
22. Viking Metal
23. Wonky
24. Xoomii
25. Yodel
26. Zouk

Source YouTube

Does anyone fail to see how exploitable this could be? Hack the sign (whether digital or not, you can find methods for changing the message) to give bad advice to only children (and hobbits).

We cannot set precedents for ad agencies to send divergent messages like this. Change 1 number in the message and then you have a potential abuser that isn't the parent gaining telephone access to YOUR CHILD.

How about instead, we Implant a chip in infants and have it feed whatever messages we do or do not want parents to see. And then change the message when they become adults to decrease the likelihood of abuse. AND NOT TELL ANYONE. I mean, if we're going to mask messages, why not just go all the way.

Protect at any cost. Well, how about kill all humans to protect the planet? Or send messages in the form of muscle stimulating agents to only animals and have them rise up!

Oh I know what needs to be done. We need to create a tentative peace and then force our children to fight to the death for our honor. Awesome idea. You had it all backwards. Abuse creates good warriors.

>> ^Kreegath:

Cats fighting looks and sounds way worse than it usually is, especially when it's domesticated animals involved in the fighting. You'll rarely see a fight lead to one of them actually getting mortally wounded. Or if it did lead to the black cat killing the yellow, you'd probably see the black cat more bloodied and with an enormously puffed up tail, definately not as calm as it was when going up the stairs. However, domesticated cats don't fight to the death over territory. This could have been mating season, and the black cat got his way in the stairs, then promptly sauntered off afterwards. Having been a cat owner for over 20 years, I can attest to the ferocity they exhibit during their copulation periods.


So basically you're saying cats fight like pussies?

Cats fighting looks and sounds way worse than it usually is, especially when it's domesticated animals involved in the fighting. You'll rarely see a fight lead to one of them actually getting mortally wounded. Or if it did lead to the black cat killing the yellow, you'd probably see the black cat more bloodied and with an enormously puffed up tail, definately not as calm as it was when going up the stairs. However, domesticated cats don't fight to the death over territory. This could have been mating season, and the black cat got his way in the stairs, then promptly sauntered off afterwards. Having been a cat owner for over 20 years, I can attest to the ferocity they exhibit during their copulation periods.

There is an obvious difference between the two parties. Their idealogies couldn't be any more different. If they were both the same, you wouldn't have gridlock in congress. Take up a vote about taxes, abortion, jobs, economic policy, immigration, marriage, etc and you will see marked differences. They go right down party lines, and people are willing to fight to the death over some of these issues.

They do have some superficial simularities. They are both the same in that they both sell out to lobbyists. They are both the same in that they only care about getting re-elected and their campaigns are funded by corporate donors. They are both the same in that they are out of touch with the american people and only pay them lip service. These issues stem from just basic human nature. The type of people who are attracted to public service tend to be greedy, selfish, arrogant, and more than willing to sell out to the entrenched power structure. These are character flaws which are universally human and do not prove anything other than that human nature is inherently corrupt.

>> ^spoco2:

Exactly, people who espouse to be anarchists or libertarians only really want to be up to a point. They always seem to be quite happy to take those things that are provided by living in a society, but seem to get shirty when that entails paying taxes to fund such things.
Strange that.


>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:

....until a band of vicious outlaws takes them from you, captures you and forces you to fight to the death with other prisoners in a makeshift gladiatorial arena they've dubbed 'The Thunderdome'.


I use the compulsory services I'm forced to pay for. Yes. Government has a monopoly on violence, so I must use their armies and police. They've a monopoly on first class mail, so I use their postal service. They also maintain a monopoly on property, so I use their roads to move about and live on the land they claim to own.

Problem?

....until a band of vicious outlaws takes them from you, captures you and forces you to fight to the death with other prisoners in a makeshift gladiatorial arena they've dubbed 'The Thunderdome'.