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The Truth About Biofuels

Hypocrisy, Thy Name Is Republican

luxintenebris jokingly says...

the grand old party is as good as their word.

why should we worry? deny the president was guilty and removing him, only strengthen america's chances against a killer virus...right? pence would have been worse on the covid response...right? like pontius pilate the call was in their hands.

these are the same folks that say corporations are people, we can wait on infrastructure, healthcare and education necessities, they can channel the forefathers, and the almighty put their presidential candidates on the ballot.

as the god chosen they've divine this is the time to start another holy war. during a time when...
- a virus cold war is going on. rubes with attitudes spitting lines about constitutionality and freedom (spitting being the keyword). then accusations that the spit-upon are politizing the disease
- blm movements meeting up w/the far-right press and punks
- half the country is on fire and the other under water
- homelessness, evictions, unemployment, and the real possibility of a bone-crushing depression settling in longer than covid itself...

...and now the might right wants to add to the fire. like they are running a gender identification party.

any wonder my moscow mitch had a 13% approval rating? if the republicans hate their representatives, what chance does anything else have?

sure. justice cruz will be a salve to soothe the burn. like ethanol in hell.

<removed> (Blog Entry by eric3579)

ChaosEngine says...

Actually there's some pretty decent evidence to suggest that "juicing" is not a good idea at all.

You're essentially ruining perfectly good fruits and vegetables and ingesting more calories quicker. Plus, you don't get the same fibre content.

That said, cutting out processed food can only be good for you. The paleo diet is a good example of this.

Personally, I've stopped drinking soda and fruit juice, as they essentially just fructose in water and fructose is bad. I try not to buy any sauces or packaged foods and pretty much make as much as I can from scratch. It's better for you and there's more satisfaction from it.

And honestly I don't miss sugar at all.

But then there is my weakness, my kryptonite, my Achilles heel if you will. I do love me some ethanol.

Colorado and Washington Legalize Cannabis

Aziraphale says...

>> ^chingalera:

^ Not while the friends of the machine stop treating corn-cronies to massive subsidies to keep polluting our gasoline with ethanol-What is saves in pollutant emissions it makes up for by destroying fuel systems and anything rubber in your car's engine.
You think that those who stand to gain the most money from marijuana and hemp laws remaining retarded would allow what's good for the United States and her people to become educated, involved, and effectual?? Fat fucking chance. Obama won't sign dick that gets the country any closer to sanity.
Hooray for Washington and Colorado. I've lived in both states. My children live in Seattle. I hope they will see an end to prohibition in their lifetime. We all remember how well prohibition in the early part of the 20th century to trade one form of organized crime for another one, eh?
Illegal marijuana puts more military-tech and bulletproof vests into hands and on the asses of more developmentally-disabled hooligans every year. The same hooligans who are the enforcement and surveillance arm of the thugs who offered up the choices of douche or turd for president this farcical election cycle....ONE AFTER ANOTHER!!!


Pretty much this. I've heard the only reason hemp was banned in the first place was because of corporate cronies.

Colorado and Washington Legalize Cannabis

chingalera says...

^ Not while the friends of the machine stop treating corn-cronies to massive subsidies to keep polluting our gasoline with ethanol-What is saves in pollutant emissions it makes up for by destroying fuel systems and anything rubber in your car's engine.

You think that those who stand to gain the most money from marijuana and hemp laws remaining retarded would allow what's good for the United States and her people to become educated, involved, and effectual?? Fat fucking chance. Obama won't sign dick that gets the country any closer to sanity.

Hooray for Washington and Colorado. I've lived in both states. My children live in Seattle. I hope they will see an end to prohibition in their lifetime. We all remember how well prohibition in the early part of the 20th century to trade one form of organized crime for another one, eh?

Illegal marijuana puts more military-tech and bulletproof vests into hands and on the asses of more developmentally-disabled hooligans every year. The same hooligans who are the enforcement and surveillance arm of the thugs who offered up the choices of douche or turd for president this farcical election cycle....ONE AFTER ANOTHER!!!

Man Sets Head On Fire In Bar Bet (Video)

Nobody Can Predict The Moment Of Revolution (Occupy Wall St)

Winstonfield_Pennypacker says...

Wealth disparity is a red herring. It is one economic indicator out of literally thousands. Neolibs like to harp on it, but when the poorest schlub in the US has 2 cars, 2 flat screens, air conditioning, and more food than they can possibly eat then it holds very little meaning. I'm a statistician, and there is always a curve in wealth with extreme ends. Deal with it.

Again - they're focusing on the wrong problem. The problem is a corrupt and powerful government. Lobbyists push for bad laws, but bad laws can't get passed without corrupt legislators. In the past, the robber-barons just did what they wanted and government was too toothless and feckless to stop abuses. Today the robber-barons are back, but they are aided and abetted by a powerful, corrupt government that creates a maze of loopholes, exemptions, and laws to pick and choose which company gets to be the one to get away with murder.

The first thing that has to happen is that government needs to be reduced in size and power so that they cannot be the kingmakers. Then you pass a set of simple reforms that are clear and basic so everyone knows 'the rules'. Companies get away with crap because government passes laws that allows it (like the repeal of Glass/Steagall). Peel the lobbyists out of such a system, and all you do it create an all-powerful government that crushes (or blesses) specific industries according to its whimsy.

For example - Obama has been literally shovelling cash at the 'green' industry. Solyndra (and others) have shown that it was all a subsidy-scam. There was no possible way these solar companies could possibly turn a profit. Not to mention ethanol subsidies, et al... They all lobbied big time and got a pile of political payola. It is modern day patronage. Meanwhile Obama is doing all he can to slap down oil and coal. The government is picking some industries to grow, and others to punish. That is totally bogus. And (just so you neolibs don't get mad) it is bogus when it happens to companies like Exxon or Haliburton too.

The government should not be this power broker that picks and chooses which industries get favoritism, and which ones get the thumbscrews based on the political preference of the legislators in power. That creates an unpredictable, uncertain, arbitrary system where industry is more beholden to politicians than the public. Who cares if a company makes a lousy or unprofitable product when they can just pay a lobbyist, or donate to a candidate, and end up getting piles and piles of taxpayer cash?

THAT is the real problem here. Wall Street, Solydra, Enron - all these companies are just symptoms. The disease is the government.

Bioethanol - Periodic Table of Videos

coolhund says...

There have been no long term studies about effects on cars yet. None at all. Some did it a few years, but thats simply not enough. Here in Germany manufacturers actually didnt release proper lists which cars work with it and which wont until right after E10 was introduced, and even now they are changing those lists regularly. Sure, in other countries they have been running that stuff your years and years, but those countries also have no studies about it. As long as there is such a srisk (and we all know ethanol attacks aluminum and some plastics, that are in fuel pumps and fuel lines and injectors, etc, there is no way to tell how safe it is. Because the manufacturer only care about sales. If engines break sooner, thats just ok, especially since it was forced by the government, so "they are not to blame".

Its detrimental because it drives up the price of food. Have you checked the course of it lately? Also gasline becomes even more expensive because of it, to make people buy it. Very well visible when Germany added E10. From one day to another the prices jumped by 8 cent. Rich dont care about such increases in cost. But poor are hurt a lot by it.
Just look at Indonesia and the palm oil desaster. Many people are actually starving because farmers stopped producing food and instead make palm oil now. And even that palm oil isnt meant for the domestic market, its going straight to foreign countries. In South America the rain forrest is burned down every day to make place for bio fuel plantages. You should Google about soy, corn and Monsanto while were at it. Theres a good documentary about that too, that will open your eyes.

We dont even know how much oil we have left or exactly how it was created. I dont know the English word for it, but theres the "Erdölkonstante" that shows that since people found oil they always thought it will be depleted in a few years and those years are nowadays actually at the highest point ever and has been at this for several decades without decreasing. As long as we still have enough, there is no need to raise prices and develop stuff that hurts people and cars. Yes, the raise is artificial. To get the rich even richer.
There has not been "oil peak" yet, instead oil production is still increasing a lot, and many countries could raise it by a lot more if they wanted to. But they dont want to because the prices would fall drastically.

Bio fuels are a desaster for humanity. They hurt so many people, its not funny anymore. Also they are not better than gasoline for the environment. All taken together, they are actually much worse. To call bio fuels good for our planet is a farce, and if you really believe that its good and even an alternative to consider, youre just a sock puppet for the corrupt rich. Sorry.

Bioethanol - Periodic Table of Videos

MilkmanDan says...

>> ^coolhund:

I agree completely with visionep. Milkmans points are just not true or avoidable.
Theres also the point of engines not being able to run Ethanol at all. Vintage cars for example.
In the end this bio ethanol is just another farce to make money, at a very high cost to... as always... the poor.
What this guy says in the video is just not true. Even with only E10, a higher priced gasoline will still give you better mileage (up to 10%). This is happening in Germany right now. Nobody is buying this ethanol crap because it simply isnt worth it. Not to mention because of the detrimental effects on people and cars.


Yes, some older cars do not run well with an ethanol blend, and some might take that to a point where they wouldn't run at all.

You say bio ethanol is a farce to make money (aren't all businesses?) and the cost targets the poor. That makes a good soundtext-bite but I don't see how ethanol production is particularly detrimental to the poor, at least not in any way that isn't heavily outweighed by other competitors. Care to elaborate?

About mileage: yes, any blend of ethanol will give lower gas mileage than pure gasoline. The point that I would suggest is that when you burn that gallon of gasoline, it isn't coming back. At least not for a few million years. We can/will keep on burning through oil for a while, but as we do so the prices will go up.

Right now, today, the market settles out so that in Brazil the cost per unit of distance traveled may actually favor gasoline; car owners "vote" at the pump. But I'm talking about the long term, in the future. Corn, or better yet switchgrass, grows back. Not in millions of years, *next* year. We're just a few years down the line from the initial introduction of ethanol and ethanol blends as a fuel. And yet already it is making a bit of competition with big oil.

If better alternative fuels come along (hydrogen fuel cells or whatever), I'll be open to them. But at this point ethanol seems like one that actually works, and has been working, in spite of the fact that it doesn't have a fully stable infrastructure yet.

Bioethanol - Periodic Table of Videos

coolhund says...

I agree completely with visionep. Milkmans points are just not true or avoidable.

Theres also the point of engines not being able to run Ethanol at all. Vintage cars for example.

In the end this bio ethanol is just another farce to make money, at a very high cost to... as always... the poor.

What this guy says in the video is just not true. Even with only E10, a higher priced gasoline will still give you better mileage (up to 10%). This is happening in Germany right now. Nobody is buying this ethanol crap because it simply isnt worth it. Not to mention because of the detrimental effects on people and cars.

Bioethanol - Periodic Table of Videos

MilkmanDan says...

@visionep I come from a farm family in Kansas, so I'm a bit biased, but I tend to disagree with you on a few things. So upvote for your comment starting the discussion but here's my rebuttal --

1. "Not much" has the potential to be pretty good, considering that sources of ethanol are much more renewable than oil. Plus, a lot of the energy balance reviews of ethanol that I've seen or heard of talk about the input cost to produce the first gallon of fuel, ie. they include construction, fermentation tanks, etc. etc. That is fair, but it is worth noting that over the long term those startup input costs become less and less of a factor because the infrastructure already exists. The cost to refine the first gallon of crude oil into gasoline was higher than the bazillionth, also.

2. Some of the food production competition will remain long-term, and some is temporary. Right now in the US, we mostly use corn (field corn) to produce ethanol. Field corn can be ground into corn flour, but at least where I come from the majority of it went to feed lots to be used as food for beef cows prior to introduction of ethanol plants. Now, the produced corn is split between going to beef production or into ethanol.

Competition between beef vs. ethanol industries raised the price of corn some (both industries want that corn) which makes farmers happy. That in turn raised the price of beef a bit, but it didn't do much to prices for human-consumption food other than that, because field corn isn't used for that very much.

The reason that we use corn for ethanol now is that corn is plentiful; it is the major crop in my neck of the woods with wheat being the second but lagging far behind. Ethanol producers need something that ferments, corn fits the bill and is available. Minor crops like milo work basically just as well as corn, so if some weather event damages a corn field and it can be replanted with milo later in the season that is great for farmers because they now have a buyer that is willing to take milo.

In the future, we could use non-food cellulose crops like switchgrass for ethanol production, and the processing will only be slightly different. Switchgrass could be grown and harvested on land that is unsuitable for corn (corn does best with a lot of water), but there isn't a large supply of it right now because there hasn't been any demand for it historically.

So yes, there will always be some competition between what crop people decide to produce on a given piece of farmland, and that can affect food prices. But I think that over the long term, ethanol production could provide useful fuel that has positive benefits that outweigh impacts from potentially slightly higher food prices. Maybe. But then again, I am a biased source!

Bioethanol - Periodic Table of Videos

visionep says...

Where is the science?

Two problems with Ethanol.

1. For the cost and energy input you don't get much additional energy output. (Lookup Ethanol fuel energy balance)

2. It competes with creating food and drives up food prices.

Lately I'm wondering why we don't use more geothermal energy. We have the technology to use it and from what I've seen we could create tons of hydrogen at massive power plants without much if any pollution. The plants also wouldn't take up miles of land like solar plants do.

Batteries and/or hydrogen are definitely the future, ethanol is a waste of time and resources that raise food prices for the gain of a few large farmers and the detriment of most of the poor nations.

QI - How to reduce your ecological footprint

rychan says...

I don't understand the methodology. OK, a dog requires 43m^2 dedicated to farming / ranching to sustain. Got it. How on earth is that twice as much as a land cruiser? What kind of ridiculous biofuel are they imagining which can construct and fuel a land cruiser while using 21.5m^2? Heck, I'd be impressed if you could get 2 gallons of ethanol out of 21.5m^2 in one year.

Pit crew flee from invisible fire

sillma says...

>> ^jimnms:

>> ^sillma:
The main reason these kinds of fuels were phased out of sports.

They still used alcohol fuel, which is a mixture of ethanol with 2% gasoline to make it burn visibly.


Yes, I didn't want to imply alcohol was removed, just the invisible ones

Pit crew flee from invisible fire



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