Hey @enoch,

> dude,
> i totally appreciate the time you took to respond.

Sure, not a problem. It's a complex issue, and requires the time to consider and understand the details.

> "for a free market to exist there also has to be absolute liberty.-
> adam smith we have neither.
> IF we did,i would not be against a free market system.
> at least not in totality."

Uh-oh, I hope this isn't a "lesser of two evils" argument.. That is, "since we cannot have a free market lets go for full-blown socialism because it is supposedly better than fascism." It's a false choice and not one I think any true humanitarian would be willing to entertain.

> "should EVERYTHING be subject to a free market? police?
> firefighters? roads?"

In short, yes. Aversion to socialism is based on reality, in contrast to what you're saying. Socialism is failure. Central planning inevitably fails. Central planners do not have the required knowledge to plan an economy. You need economic calculation and economic calculation is impossible to achieve in a socialist "economy."

> "to me health should be a basic part of civilized society,by your
> arguments you disagree. ok..we both have that right."

Are you trying to conflate "socialized healthcare" with health? Let's not confuse the facts with personal attacks. You seem to be saying, "if you are against socialism you are against health." That makes no sense. None.
I might as well say, "If you are against free markets you are against health."

> "my argument is that some things should be a basic for civilized
> society. in my opinion health care is one of them."

In no way did I ever say that I am against healthcare. So what are you talking about?

> "for a free market to exist there also has to be absolute liberty.-
> adam smith we have neither."

You cannot have a free market without liberty any more than you can have liberty without liberty. This is obvious, so?

> "IF we did,i would not be against a free market system.
> at least not in totality."

So, if we had a free market, you wouldn't be "against" a free market? Hmm.

> "the reason why i dont feel a free market is the way to go is
> mainly due to the fact that politics and corporations have merged
> into one giant behemoth (plutocracy)."

That's fine, but this is not a matter of "feeling" but a matter of economic reality and empirical evidence and deductive truth.

> "i never really understood americans aversion to "socialism""

Perhaps some economic education will clarify things. Understanding economic calculation, for example, might be a good place to start.

> "i deal with the very people that could NEVER afford you."

You're wrong. For one thing, while I do work at a significant fee for my primary clients, I do a significant amount of pro bono work, as a choice, and because I, like you, believe that health care is a human right. And that's a key point you need to understand. You seem to believe that, if the state doesn't take care of people, then no one will, and so we need to steal money from people in the form of taxes, under the auspices of "helping the poor," when in fact, the bureaucrats ensure that only a portion (if any) of those taxes actually arrive with their intended recipients while those who would willingly help those people themselves are deprived of the resources to do so, by depleting their income with said taxes. It's an unnecessary middleman, and faulty logic. The fact that people have, do, and will continue to care about people is the fundamental fact the needs to be understood. As a "man of faith," I would hope that you have enough faith in other people that they would care about and for others (even without being coerced by the government to do so, by force).

Furthermore, we have to apply the free market in toto, not half-assed. You can't have a Keynesian corporatists and an over-regulated system and expect that people will be be able to afford healthcare. The fact is that in a free market, the number of people who cannot afford my services would actually decrease considerably, because many more options would arise for those who still couldn't afford me would but need my services.

> "in a free market there will be losers.the one who always lose.
> the poor,the homeless,the mentally ill."

The free market has ways of dealing with all of these. And yes some win, some lose. But in a socialist system, everyone loses (except for maybe the rulers and their lackeys). This seems, again, to be coming from a place of fear, a sense of helplessness without the government. But alas, nothing contributes to poverty, homelessness, and mental illness more than government does. Fact.

> "the free market is still profit driven and the poor will have it no
> better,possibly worse in such a system."

So, what is your proof that the poor will have it worse? How do you know? Or is this what you "feel" would be the case?

> "the reason why i suggested medicare is because it is already in
> place."

So was slavery when the South decided they wanted to keep it.

> "two things would happen if this country went the medicare route:
> 1.health insurance industry would obsolete.
> 2.the pharmaceutical industry would find itself having to negotiate
> drug prices"

1. Yes, the government would have a monopoly on health coverage, and by extension all of healthcare. Economic calculation at this point becomes utterly impossible. Chaos follows. And healthcare quality and service plummets. I have research studies to support this if you're interested.

2. Why not nationalize pharmaceuticals while you are at it?

> "i may be a man of faith but i am a humanist at heart.for-profit
> health care will still have similar results as our current because
> the poor and working poor population is growing."

Without appealing to moral superiority, allow me to assure you that there is nothing -- not one thing -- that is moral or ethical about allowing the government coerce, aggress, commit violence, and violate individual's inalienable rights to self-ownership and property rights, as you proposing with such socialist "solutions." In my humble opinion, a true man of faith would not stand for such things, but would stand against them.

> "the poor and working poor population is growing."

Indeed we do, and we all have inflation, cronyism, Lord Keynes' bogus economic "system" and government's meddling to thank for this.

> "i am all for an actual free market but some things should be done
> collectively."

By "collectively," I assume you mean "by central authorities," yes? Because the free market is, in fact, collective. But there is nothing "collective" about central planning. Except for the fact that the "collective" is mandated to obey the dictates of the central planners.

> "its not only the right thing to so but the human thing to do."

1. Whatever your "feelings" are about it, there is an economic reality to deal with. Such a sentiment misses the point, and will result in hurting more people than it helps.

2. There is nothing "human" (or humane) in aggression, coercion, and violations of sovereignty, all of which underpins an implementation of a socialized system.

"The right thing to do" is to respect self-ownership and property rights. Doing anything else will eventually backfire. "People are not chessmen you move on a board at your whim."

Any one who is serious about contributing to solving and/or ameliorating the issues of poverty, homelessness, and/or mental illness and many of the other symptoms of our social detritus, needs to develop real, sustainable free market solutions to these. Otherwise, their efforts will be in vain (even if -- or perhaps especially if -- they are adopted by government for implementation). Anything else will not improve any of these but will only serve to make matters worse.

Going back to the basics, free market competition will always provide better goods/services at lower prices than the monopolies (fostered and engendered by the lack of economic calculations due to governmental intervention and regulations). Healthcare is no exception to this. Why would it be? Furthermore, why believe that the central planners/kleptocrats aren't profit-driven? Why believe that a "government" monopoly doesn't suffer from a lack of economic calculation? And what's wrong with being profit-driven, however you may individually define "profit?" Do you/I/we not act for what you/I/we consider the best? (Having faith is not a part-time job.)

Do you not act to achieve desired goals?

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you haven't fully thought things through. But as I'm sure you know, "It is easy to be conspicuously 'compassionate' if others are being forced to pay the cost."

> "thats my 2 cents anyways.i could probably ramble on for a few
> hours but i dont want to bore you. always a pleasure my friend.
> namaste"

It's not boring, but does take a bit of time to consider and understand all of the details. It's complex, and certainly a challenge to navigate your way through the morass of rhetoric, conditioning, and cultural misdirection that is pervasive in our society, especially when considering what passes for "news" and "facts." This is particularly true with regards to the economy, which is heavily politicized, despite being a rational science that can be understood if one takes the time to learn about its mechanism.

Since you signed off with "namaste," perhaps it would be worth reminding you that the first principle of yoga is "ahimsa para dharma" : non-violence is the highest duty.

Perhaps videosift isn't the best medium in which to educate people on non-violence and economics, but alas, it can be entertaining and, possibly have have some positive effect at some point.

Hope this helps.

You keep saying the same shit over and over and over as if that makes it true anywhere but your own mind, you ignore entirely facts that don't fit within your narrative, you only seem willing to argue points that you created yourself and put into other people's mouths, you openly admit you interpret the 4th as you see fit, apparently without all that "reasonable" detritus, and you repeatedly and intentionally misinterpret and misrepresent what I and others say when it will serve whatever response you wish to manufacture. Does it make you a "brain dead idiot"? Does anyone have to ask?

Congrats,  you win.  

Radio: My favorite discovery of 2012 is "Radio Lab", a story telling show reminiscent of another favorite, 'This American Life', but with a much more sophisticated sound design. All episodes are available for free in the podcast section of iTunes.

Music: I fell in love with the New Orleans second line scene after Issy and I paid a visit to the crescent city this year. We saw the 'Rebirth Brass Band' live and had a great time. We also had a mini-meetup at the show with @dotdude. New Orleans music culture is like no other.

Music: Louis Cole & Genevieve Artadi: Highly unique and energetic electro-acoustic music. Hard to explain.

Music: Austin Texas band 'The Black Angels' - Dark, bluesy rock obviously influenced by the Doors. To be honest, I'm not crazy about blues rock or the Doors, but 'The Black Angels' manage to meld these influences into something I really dig.

Music: UK band, 'Metronomy'. Their sound is eclectic, hooky and heavily influenced by all the cool British 80's bands I loved as a kid. Goes down easy. Works in the background as well as the fore.

Movies: Django and Looper were the two films that captivated me from start to finish. Both films by gifted auteurs, one at the top of his game, the other on the rise. Great writing. Great Directing. Great performances.

Horror movies: The Cabin in the Woods (A clever and absurd meta-horror mashup) and the The Lady in Black (A classic, classy ghost story) both satisfied. It's nice that there were a couple of diamonds in sea of Paranormal-Activity-esque-found-footage detritus.

TV: same stuff that everyone else likes - BB, GoT, DoAb and Sherlock. I also got into Always Sunny in Philadelphia this year - very dark, very funny.

Books: Started a bunch, finished very few. Nothing to recommend. "Checklist Manifesto" is pretty interesting so far - it's about how the brain functions (or fails to function) in the information-dense present.

Games: 'Xcom' was a worthy update of the original. Loved all the detailed micro/macro strategy. 'Journey' was beautiful and fairly moving for a videogame.

That ain't oil. Looks like clay, or even charcoal. Clay is often used to control erosion on beaches susceptible to it. I suppose nobody saw this massive cover-up operation or got pictures of it either. Did the perpetrators also spread driftwood and other detritus over the top to make it look "natural"? Looks like they even hit some choice spots with a fire hose to make it look like natural erosion, eh?

"Different pattern in the sand"? Wasn't there just a huge storm (Alex) passing through this week? Those booms look like erosion control to me. Storms can take and deposit large amounts of sand to a beach. Not everything is a frickin' conspiracy. What is happening in the gulf is a tragedy, and deserves all the outrage one can muster, but this type of brain-dead "journalism" is only leading the blind to battles that don't exist. It's a guy on a beach with a camera. Are you going to believe it's oil just because this shitwit says it is? Pick some up, camera guy. Rub it between your fingers on camera so we can all get a good look. Does it smell like oil? Does it smell like anything? Does it burn? If so, what color is the smoke? What color and kind of residue does it leave? Did you even collect some so it could be tested/verified by an expert? Unfortunately, Billy "Scoops" Batson here has already decided that it's oil, and so should you.

Move along. Nothing to see here.

I'm excited about the possibilities in level design with LBP. This is astounding work. Here's hoping that brilliance and hard work like this will come to the fore and the myriad detritus doesn't ruin the experience.

I think it's perfectly valid to ask a group accused of deception to defend itself. Particularly when they already have the highly unusual equipment on hand to vindicate their claim.

But really, can't we just look at the moon with strong telescopes and see the various astronaut detritus still in place? Why is this even an open question?

>> ^choggie:
Who cares who wins?
Who cares who loses?
Worthless rhetoric and drum beats from both sides, same sides, no sides like the middle-
Worthless fandom, meaningless affiliations, time drags on, more of the same more of the same, more of the same.....
pie are round, cornbread are square-
diversion, regurgitation, ism's, anities, ists and team spirit.......pallor, detritus, decomposition decay......life goes on-

THAT'S THE AMERICAN SPIRIT!!! Fly your flags up high, or don't fly them at all...fuck it...it's all superstitious tradition done to satisfy the "team player" in us all. Why not cheer for your own team when your down 21 to nothing in the last 3 minutes of the 4th quarter? Cheer or not, the outcome will be the same. One in the loss column is what we're all facing. We have no control of the situation, what we have to ask ourselves is do we want the illusion of control?

Who cares who wins?
Who cares who loses?
Worthless rhetoric and drum beats from both sides, same sides, no sides like the middle-
Worthless fandom, meaningless affiliations, time drags on, more of the same more of the same, more of the same.....
pie are round, cornbread are square-
diversion, regurgitation, ism's, anities, ists and team spirit.......pallor, detritus, decomposition decay......life goes on-

Touché! Touché!

In reply to this comment by kronosposeidon:
Ninth faction:

Toadying Shill - While gregarious and good-humored, the Toadying Shill can usually be detected in close proximity to an admin's rectum, and sometimes as deep as the transverse colon. When not sustaining themselves on the detritus of the digestive tract of higher-ups, their natural habitat is the Sift Talk page, where two or more consecutive posts of theirs can be found, which are invariably drug-fueled flights of fancy that by comparison would make Hunter S. Thompson appear to be the model of restraint. They make up fanciful holidays such as Upvote Everything Day, create silly lists, and also enjoy questionable cinematic endeavors. This faction of VideoSift is also commonly referred to as Ass Gravyites.

Ninth faction:

Toadying Shill - While gregarious and good-humored, the Toadying Shill can usually be detected in close proximity to an admin's rectum, and sometimes as deep as the transverse colon. When not sustaining themselves on the detritus of the digestive tract of higher-ups, their natural habitat is the Sift Talk page, where two or more consecutive posts of theirs can be found, which are invariably drug-fueled flights of fancy that by comparison would make Hunter S. Thompson appear to be the model of restraint. They make up fanciful holidays such as Upvote Everything Day, create silly lists, and also enjoy questionable cinematic endeavors. This faction of VideoSift is also commonly referred to as Ass Gravyites.

But looris....jails do produce something of value for those systems...they are big business in the U.S.....back when nations were concerned about the simplicities of human existence, and not the complexities of their own creations, child molesters were eliminated, like one would eliminate a rotten carcass from a town street....cuts down on disease and odors,and makes for a healthier town.

Strike one you are out kind of crimes, have never changed.....kill the worthless sack of human detritus....

....so, is your mom pleased as punch to have you destroying virtual humans by the truckload, or are there Cheetos® crumbs and sputum covering your screen in the dank hole filled with detritus you call a bedroom........?

There's a special little island, where all the above are welcome, without prejudice or judgment, to wallow in their experience-or, they can come here, and have their asses sifted, of detritus, and boll weevils of the mind!