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Bike Messenger Riding Fast and Fluid Through NYC Traffic

Khufu says...

It would have to be in Manhattan because anywhere else in America people would have intentionally opened their car doors to share their opinion of his smooth riding style.

mxxcon said:

Luckily bike messengers are less common now.
It's cool that I could recognize pretty much every shot they showed
Seems like most of the riding was done around lower Manhattan, mostly near FiDi.

Mordhaus (Member Profile)

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Ashenkase (Member Profile)

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Cop Pepper Spraying Teenage Girl

Jerykk says...

Now this is good footage. You see and hear what the cop sees and hears and you actually have context before the incident. This why all cops should wear body cams and why body cam footage should be released to the public.

The cop was entirely justified here. The suspect tried to flee the scene, refused to cooperate or comply with commands and physically resisted arrest. When the suspect repeatedly tried to keep the car door open with her legs, the cops made the correct choice in pepper-spraying her. It's very hard to close a door when someone is aggressively pushing it open. Brute force might have worked but that would have been dangerous and potentially lead to accidental injury. Pepper spray was the safest option.

And newtboy, ignoring the police is not "totally fine." In fact, it's one of the dumbest and most dangerous things you can do. Police are authority figures with the right to detain or arrest you. As such, the best way to deal with police is to listen and cooperate in a civil manner. If the girl had done that, she wouldn't have been cuffed, carried off to the police car or pepper-sprayed. I know it's cool to hate cops (and authority figures in general) but at a certain point, pride needs to give way to reason and logic.

Cop Pepper Spraying Teenage Girl

Sagemind says...

Well, I have to disagree. I hate brutality as much as anyone. This girl however was uncontrollable, and all they were trying to do was ask some questions. She was uncooperative, and wouldn't let them even close the car door. (putting her foot in the door).

She wouldn't give her information, and was refusing on scene medical care while under age.

I can agree maybe they didn't need the spray, but she escalated this, not them. She got herself arrested. The police were calm, and collected through the entire ordeal.

She had no reason to loose it, and to be uncooperative.
But wait, maybe she did..., does it say she was also charged with possession. Could be she was freaked out over what her parents were going to say or do - didn't want to get caught by her parents..., unfortunately it was too late for that - she just made it worse on herself.

"Airzooka" - The biggest portable airgun in history?

Cop Kills Mexican For Slowly Shuffling In His Direction

newtboy says...

! So walking backwards is now a dangerous act for a cop?!? ;-) Even I give them the benefit of a doubt that they are capable of walking backwards, focusing forwards, and still knowing where they are. he had his car to guide him, and once behind it could easily move to his right, off the street....or just closed his car door.

Yes, the suspect MIGHT have jumped into the cop car if it's left open...and if it's keys are still in it might have tried to get away again. In my eyes, that's preferable to a certain homicide, but that's just me.

I didn't think closing the door would calm the suspect, I think it would make the officer 'safe'. The suspect could then be addressed with the backup that was there in seconds, not a lone, scared cop that felt threatened. Having the suspect continue to shuffle around seems preferable to what happened....but again, that's just me.

So lets agree we disagree then. It seems neither of us sees what the other does, and that's just fine. If everyone agreed about everything, what would we talk about? :-)
EDIT: and thank you for the reasonable, respectful discussion.

Second edit: interesting no one (including me) thought about tazer gunning him. I would have supported that the instant he put his hands down, or after the first time he's told to stay where he is but he steps forward anyway. I'm guessing, in the heat of the moment, it didn't occur to the officer either.

lucky760 said:

That's not a viable as a practical solution.

Consider option 1: The officer backs away. He keeps walking backward and the suspect keeps advancing. He'll just keep walking backward until he's hit by a car or he trips over something or the suspect lunges at him. (Maybe he should have just turned around and run away! .) Or maybe as he backs away the suspect jumps into his police cruiser and drives away.

Option 2: The officer jumps into his car to hide from the suspect. Officers are trained to confront and stop a potential threat, not hide from it. (That's what they're there for, so the rest of us can run and hide.) It's just not realistic that in any situation an officer could sit down in his car and lock the door and hope the suspect will manageable after that or calm down and start following commands.

If the guy walks back to his car, the cop would jump out and yell at him to stop again, then if he came back the cop would jump back in the car to hide again. It's not something they train for to put themselves into a position where the outcome is totally unpredictable.

Cop Kills Mexican For Slowly Shuffling In His Direction

newtboy says...

Except that's it's not my assessment, it's the Mexican government's assessment.
EDIT: When the Federall'es (SP? Mexican police) say your cops are out of control, it's time to take another look.

It seemed to me that the guy was a belligerent drunk, who at one moment complies (standing with his hands on head), then turns to argue, tugs on his shirt collar (in a failed attempt to show he's unarmed, or telling the cop to shoot him there?) and shuffles slowly towards the cop. If he was trying to suicide by cop, he did it in a way that made it look totally unthreatening to me. No quick movements, hands on head, no weapon, no threats, no fists...where's the threat in a slow moving unarmed suspect?

I agree, once he was in arms reach and still advancing, he's a threat...but you must completely ignore the cop's ability to move away to make the killing in any way justified. The cop had every opportunity to keep safe distance by simply moving away slowly...why didn't he? Stand Your Ground?
EDIT:Or, the cop had the opportunity to close his car door and lock it, making him 100% safe against the unarmed drunk until backup arrived 20 seconds later.

I didn't see it that way, I (and others, including the officials in the Mexican government) saw a drunk, acting inappropriately, being belligerent when he sees the gun pointed at him and asking the officer "You gonna kill me?", to which the officer replies "no, I'm not going to kill you", then reports on the radio "He's saying 'kill me'". He did not say "Kill me.", he said "Are you GOING to kill me?" as I heard it.
I never saw him reach UNDER his shirt, only tug at the collar of his shirt, and at one point turn around and put his hands behind his back touching his shirt (but NEVER under his shirt). I don't know where that idea came from (except maybe from the cop's statement), please watch again.
I think if an unarmed man slowly advancing on you with hands on his head is a 'deadly threat to the officer's safety', we have HUGE problems, because that theory makes it legal to shoot anyone that comes near them....they don't know if they're armed and attacking, or just passing by, right?
Cops are supposed to de-escalate problems, not exacerbate them.

As for the 'murder' designation...if a citizen shot this man in the exact same circumstances, he should face murder charges. I don't give people a pass on homicide based on their job.

lucky760 said:

Disagree with your assessment on this one, Newt.

The guy's intention was to suicide by cop. The cop clearly wasn't hoping to have to shoot the guy, and he made the right call in my opinion after trying repeatedly to get the guy to stay away from him while also calling for backup.

It matters not that the guy was "shuffling" in the cop's direction. Once in close enough proximity it wouldn't take much to engage in fisticuffs and potentially subdue the officer.

The guy wasn't just being stubborn or unruly. He was intentionally demonstrating that he was a threat by reaching under his shirt multiple times then asking to be killed while threatening the officer's safety by advancing toward him.

Thank goodness the cop wasn't charged for murder. He's no cowardly murderer.

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