Oops this turned into a semi rant. But I am legitimately open to discussion here, and am curious to get your thoughts on a few points Bob. That is, IF you're willing to actually think about them beyond the level of repeating talking points.

I find it interesting how divergent the two overall "sides" are in this country, in terms of where they focus. None of the issues brought up in this video are really on the radar of most progressives, beyond being aware some on the right are talking about them. And I'm guessing a lot of the concerns progressives discuss rarely come up in your chosen media landscape. A lot of the issues in the video are largely off of my radar, and I have to wonder how you feel they should be addressed - like, actual proposed solutions rather than just complaining about / worrying about them.

We only dedicate one day to remember our fallen soldiers

How many should there be? Arguably we have more than one already: there's Memorial Day and Veterans Day, and it seems that Sept 11th is often used for the purpose as well.

I'd argue we should spend more time acknowledging and understanding the principals behind WHY our soldiers died in the various conflicts which caused them to fall in the first place. Let's make sure our citizenry appreciates what we collectively rejected in the Revolutionary war. Why it was important that we kept the country together rather than allowing the south to split off in the mid-1800s. Why we chose to honor our diplomatic agreements and support our allies in WW1. Why we fought against the countries and governments we did in WW2. What our goals were in Korea and Vietnam, and what lessons we learned from those conflicts and from the Cold War in general. Commemorating and remembering those we've lost absolutely matters, but if we're ONLY doing that while forgetting why they fought OR ignoring what we learned then we're doing them an equal or greater disservice. Remember that America was built on the idea of forming "a more perfect union" - not a perfect one, a MORE perfect one - a work in progress. We're striving towards an ideal, not assuming we're already there. Learning from our past successes, failures, and our struggles around both outcomes is vital. If our self-analysis is no deeper than hero worship we'll never make real progress towards that theoretical perfect union.

The only mask that's gonna save us is duct tape on their mouths

Yeah, sound medical advice and evidence-based science is terrifying. Better to shut up those whose words we dislike, because we're reactionary authoritarian babymen. I truly do not understand being more afraid of reasonable safety measures than of a virus which has been shown to cause serious harm in the short and long terms. The only reason this "masks = liberal / maskless = conservative" crap came about is because politics has devolved to the level of team sports in the US, and one party has chosen "the opposite of whatever our political opponents say" as their entire governing philosophy. (And yes, ONE party - research and understand the GOP's 2020 platform if you want to argue the point.) This video even seems to reach a reasonable conclusion at the end, while coming up just short of that final logical leap to "maybe I should question what the public faces of MY side have been claiming in this Us vs Them madness." Seriously - keep going friend, you're almost there! George Washington was 100% right in wanting to avoid political parties being a force in the US, and it makes me immensely sad that his fears came true.

Big oil runs the world / the only wars to get fought are with the countries who have natural resources they want

Solid point here, no sarcasm. The US military has long been a tool of our profit-driven form of "free market" imperialism. A really great way to combat this, specifically with an eye to ending Big Oil's goddamn death grip on our foreign policy goals, would be an aggressive implementation of renewable energy projects. Remember the space race? America can be an absolute beast at clever engineering solutions when we dedicate ourselves to it. Fuck the petrostates, we have the available land and resources to absolutely kick ass in the realms of solar and wind power, and be leaders in the the post-hydrocarbon reality. We can certainly agree on that, right Bob? Left / Right nonsense fully aside, I think any reasonable American can agree on at least two points: let's stop sending heaps of cash to buy oil off of the Saudis (etc), and Fuck Cancer.

But if a white man acts too white he's white trash / he's a racist he's a bigot he's a monster

What the fuck is this horseshit? What does "acting too white" even fucking look like? Watching NASCAR on a sailboat while listening to polka? Typically when I see racism from white people it's in the form of denying that brown-hued people deal with any additional difficulties in life due to their skin tone, or denying that there have been structural obstacles for them through history, or lamenting that their white children are being burdened with a broader lens on culture or with (gasp! shock!) an accurate accounting of actual US history, including the ugly bits that we shouldn't be proud of (but MUST learn from). I'm progressive / lefty as fuck and there is no aspect of "white culture" or "acting white" which upsets me in the slightest. UNLESS one counts "denying racism exists / has ever existed" as a fundamental value of being white. Which... why would anyone want to claim that nonsense? If you want to listen to classic country music in a rusty pickup truck while driving to an evangelical church, then discuss hockey over Buds after 18 holes with the rest of your tractor pull team, then absolutely go nuts my fellow caucusoid! Just recognize and understand that your life experiences may not be the same as those of others. Further, if we care about trying to avoid unnecessary, avoidable unfairness in life (recognizing that life will never truly be fair, for anyone), then it might be reasonable for some governmental / legal / structural recognition in furtherance of that notion. There is absolutely room for legitimate policy disagreement here without being accused of racism. It's denial of others' reality which tends to garner the label of racist (sexist etc) - steer clear of denying the lived experiences of other people, allow for the possibility they may have encountered difficulties you haven't / won't, and we've room for further discussion.

Edit / final point: I voted the video back up to 0 from the -1 where I found it. Because while I disagree with a lot of the positions taken by the performer, they may have reached them through no fault of their own and with no true malice. Misinformation / disinformation is a devious shit of a motherfucker, and the rot it causes can run deep. It is painful to abandon deeply-held beliefs, on a fundamental level. If nothing else, the video gives us room to discuss some specific viewpoints held by people who think of themselves as good, but which can lead to harm.

Followup:

1. Chili's apologized in bland corp-speak: http://brinker.mediaroom.com/newsreleases?item=135354

2. The manager was placed on leave: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2016/11/15/chilis-manager-who-took-vets-meal-veterans-day-placed-leave/93876364/

11 11 11 was SKYRIM DAY not Veterans Day

>> ^Mikus_Aurelius:

If your citizens elect leaders who send troops to kill brown people, then the troops who do it are serving their country. Being the instrument of a bad policy makes them no more responsible than any other voter.
>> ^ghark:
"Happy family reunions"
or
"How to disguise the slaughter of brown people as good service to your country 101"
It's fantastic for the parents, and the son though, I'm very happy for them, it's just sad that the system has been so subverted that this has to happen.



That's irrelevant, I'm not blaming them.

Now I'm sitting here just shaking my head in bemusement, amazement, how-is-that-possiblement. Questions questions questions....

Is everything made special for his height? And surely finding skates for feet the big. And his reach... with a larger than life hockey stick.... Or is he not allowed a big stick -- are hockey sticks regulation size?

I clearly know nothing about hockey, but this guy has me awe-struck.

In reply to this comment by ridesallyridenc:
>> ^bareboards2:

Made me cry.
Then made me gape. HOW BIG IS THAT CAPTAIN?????



Zdeno Chara is the largest player in the NHL, 6'9" tall, 255 lbs. Without skates or pads. A giant.

>> ^bareboards2:

Made me cry.
Then made me gape. HOW BIG IS THAT CAPTAIN?????



Zdeno Chara is the largest player in the NHL, 6'9" tall, 255 lbs. Without skates or pads. A giant.

If your citizens elect leaders who send troops to kill brown people, then the troops who do it are serving their country. Being the instrument of a bad policy makes them no more responsible than any other voter.

>> ^ghark:

"Happy family reunions"
or
"How to disguise the slaughter of brown people as good service to your country 101"
It's fantastic for the parents, and the son though, I'm very happy for them, it's just sad that the system has been so subverted that this has to happen.

>> ^NordlichReiter:
Put the president in a C-130, give him flak jacket, a pot, and a M-1 Carbine. Strap his ass to the ready line, and then boot his ass out of the bay. Let him float down into a hot landing zone.
Then, maybe, they will think twice about starting wars.
I'll give Obama credit though, he did turn down all proposed plans of attack for A-stan.
The fighting in that quagmire is very similar to Vietnam men at forward fire bases not being able to leave their bunkers. Then going out on patrols and walking through a village full of VC, er, Taliban, er wait.. Civilians?
The soviets couldn't do it, and neither can we.


Your view only holds though if war is always the absolute worst option available. That means that the world would be better if the allies had chosen not to go to war in Europe and it was still presumably under Nazi rule today...

War is terrible, sometimes our world is so screwed up though that not going to war is even worse. Your free to ignore that reality, but try to hold off on cheap shots against the people that have to recognize and deal with that reality.

If I had a power point right now I'd give a * quality star.

In the United States we now call November 11th 'Veterans Day'. Prior to that we called it 'Armistice Day', until Congress changed it in 1954. It's all good in my book.

Below is a video of my favorite veteran, Hugh Thompson, Jr. He was the man who stopped the My Lai massacre. Maybe you wonder why I would bring up such an ignoble part of American *military history on the day we honor our veterans. I do it for this reason:

To show that even in our darkest moments, there are still examples of courage and honor to be found. Hugh Thompson is the kind of hero that everyone in armed forces the world over should strive to be. If every troop had the same courage of convictions as Warrant Officer Thompson there would be a lot less wars, and maybe none at all. Call me a dreamer.

Or maybe November time. You can have your veterans' coffee on Veterans' Day. Your three-day weekend options are Labor Day, Veteran's Day, or Thanksgiving.

In reply to this comment by MarineGunrock:


I'd like a siftup, anyway. I'm moving to Arizona anyway, and I had planned on making the trip to CA sometime thereafter... maybe October time. My girl was going to visit her grandparents and we were gonna have lunch or dinner with Lucky. It would be sweet if you joined us!

In reply to this comment by dystopianfuturetoday:
Dinner and drinks on Issy and me if you ever come to Los Angeles. Thanks, MG.

In reply to this comment by MarineGunrock:
Where's my free coffee damnit?

Oh, wait, they only give a shit about veterans when there's a chance to look like something other than a faceless corporation that is almost single-handedly responsible for the obesity of America the world.

No it was made by the CBC for Veterans Day last year. Those are all Canadian troops. Look for the shoulder flash's and the berrys.

Well, my birthday is on the 24th, so you'll have to turn the crank a little sooner!

I like the Google theme idea, the next major holiday is Veterans Day. Maybe something with various armed forces logos. I'm up for others countries hoidays too, not just U.S., though off-hand I don't know many.

I watched through the whole vid even though I didn't want to, but I felt it was important to find out what you see before making a decision.

mlx: you do make some valid points, but I do agree with the fact that we also removed the fireworks video that killed the videographer.

You could also argue that that video had historical significance - perhaps not as earth changing at 9/11, but it was a "personal 9/11" for the people who lived around that factory.

And joedirt, technically this is even more of a snuff film than the fireworks videographer, since in that vid you do not even know the man died; here you hear it happening, and it's heart wrenching.

In addition to that, I read a comment on Youtube from a 16 y.o. who commented that this prompted tears. The policy as it stands keeps VS a "safe place" where you can expect some limits to what will appear in the vids. I have a lot of regret doing this, b/c I do think it's a powerful video that many people should see, but in my humble opinion, VS isn't the place for it.

The final reason, which I believe swayed me the most (if not the previous one), is to keep it off out of respect for his children. Should they decide they want to honour their dad by broadcasting it, then I think the decision should be theirs (just like how in Canada media are allowed to witness the return of KIA soldiers from Afghanistan at the option of the family).

For those reasons, and despite my reluctance born of the "Remembrance Day"/"Veterans Day" vow to "never forget", as well as my inherent bias against 'censorship' in various forms, the debate has made me feel strongly enough about this to say *discard

I apologize to those who disagree, however I hope I've made the reasoning clear.